Is Avici hell eternal?

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:08 pm
Location: Amphoe Li, Lamphun

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by Dhammanando »

Caoimhghín wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:08 am If I recall you from a while ago on DhammaWheel (some years ago), I think either you or the user Alfatun in responces to you used a dichotomy of Platonic Forms vs Theseus' Ship to explore it.
Yes, it was actually both of us. Alfatun was the Platonic forms guy and I was the Theseus' Ship one.

https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=30165
dude
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by dude »

It's like how long can you wait? When you're in great pain you don't know if you can stand another minute of it. After a few million years it might well feel like it will never end. We mortals go nuts at far shorter bad experiences.
Norden
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:31 am

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by Norden »

KiwiNFLFan wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:35 am In most of the sources I've read about Buddhist cosmology, they state that there is no eternal hell (or heaven) in Buddhism. Only Nirvana is permanent.

However, I came across this article in the Chinese Buddhist Encylopedia, where it is stated that Avici may be eternal. Are there any sutras or other sources that back that up?

One of the things I like about Buddhism is that, unlike Christianity, there is no eternal hell.
No no no, you misunderstand. One of the Buddha disciple, Devadatta was in Avici because he made the Buddha bleed. But he will get out from there one day and become pacceka Buddha. Avici is not nibbana, so it's not eternal.
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 4195
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

KiwiNFLFan wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:35 am In most of the sources I've read about Buddhist cosmology, they state that there is no eternal hell (or heaven) in Buddhism. Only Nirvana is permanent.

However, I came across this article in the Chinese Buddhist Encylopedia, where it is stated that Avici may be eternal. Are there any sutras or other sources that back that up?

One of the things I like about Buddhism is that, unlike Christianity, there is no eternal hell.

Reading further in the link you provided, it is suggested that “eternal” doesn’t mean permanent, but rather, just really, really long, and repeating, kalpa after kalpa.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook develops outward insight.
Sādhaka
Posts: 819
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by Sādhaka »

I’ve read somewhere, by a Tibetan if I’m not mistaken, that one can go to avici eternally because of broken commitments, because what happens supposedly is that as soon as one avici hell dissolves which one has taken rebirth in, one will simply get transferred to another one that hasn’t been dissolved yet; and that this would keep happening eternally.

Is there any scriptural basis for this? Or is it merely an Tibetan assertion?

If anyone would have been an candidate for something like that, it would have been Rudra, no? And out of compassion, the Buddhas intervened to stop Rudra’s perpetual rebirth in one avici hell after another.

Did Rudra go to avici and then become Rudra after? Or did Rudra become Rudra first, then go to avici afterwards? Or did they both happen simultaneously?
User avatar
tellyontellyon
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:38 pm

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by tellyontellyon »

'Time' itself is a quality of Samsara.
"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself."
- Rumi
User avatar
Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by Sonam Wangchug »

No, don't forget at the exhaustion of a Kalpa the three lower realms, and then the higher form realms dissolve.

One place this is discussed is in Kangyur Rinpoche's commentary on Jigme Linpa's text Treasury Of Precious Qualities, volume 1
"To have confidence in the teacher is the ultimate refuge." -Rigzin Jigme Lingpa
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7200
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

tellyontellyon wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:24 pm 'Time' itself is a quality of Samsara.
Isn’t Avici Hell samsara? :shrug:
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
TrimePema
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:16 am

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by TrimePema »

smcj wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:10 am
tellyontellyon wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:24 pm 'Time' itself is a quality of Samsara.
Isn’t Avici Hell samsara? :shrug:
DKR says something like "avici hell is the conceptual mind that can't recognize awareness."
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7200
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

TrimePema wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:19 pm
smcj wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:10 am
tellyontellyon wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:24 pm 'Time' itself is a quality of Samsara.
Isn’t Avici Hell samsara? :shrug:
DKR says something like "avici hell is the conceptual mind that can't recognize awareness."
Then all of us are there! :crying:
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2948
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by Fortyeightvows »

Sonam Wangchug wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:40 am No, don't forget at the exhaustion of a Kalpa the three lower realms, and then the higher form realms dissolve.

One place this is discussed is in Kangyur Rinpoche's commentary on Jigme Linpa's text Treasury Of Precious Qualities, volume 1
Can we think of anything else that dissolves from the bottom up?
User avatar
well wisher
Posts: 436
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:57 am

Re: Is Avici hell eternal?

Post by well wisher »

Fortyeightvows wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:45 am
Sonam Wangchug wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:40 am No, don't forget at the exhaustion of a Kalpa the three lower realms, and then the higher form realms dissolve.

One place this is discussed is in Kangyur Rinpoche's commentary on Jigme Linpa's text Treasury Of Precious Qualities, volume 1
Can we think of anything else that dissolves from the bottom up?
Lighting a piece of paper on fire from the bottom will make it disintegrate from the bottom to top.
Same analogy with a tree rotting from its base: see tree trunk rot.

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/treat-tre ... 92612.html
Post Reply

Return to “Mahāyāna Buddhism”