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Serenity509
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Serenity509 »

PadmaVonSamba wrote:Oddly, A.A. Milne, author of the Winnie the Pooh books has not offered his analysis of Buddhism.
The Urantia Book is claimed to be a divine revelation.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Serenity509 wrote:
PadmaVonSamba wrote:Oddly, A.A. Milne, author of the Winnie the Pooh books has not offered his analysis of Buddhism.
The Urantia Book is claimed to be a divine revelation.
I am sorry, I don't understand what your point is.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Are you trying to tie everything together some how?
If you feel that everything is pointing you to buddhism, then join buddhism.
It seems that you are seeking some kind of validation or verification.
Actually, a lot of the Urantia quotes you provided about Buddhism are an outsider's view, and are not accurate at all.


If someone were to reply to that post (with all those Urantia quotes) with a response that you wanted to hear, what would that response be?
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Serenity509
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Serenity509 »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Actually, a lot of the Urantia quotes you provided about Buddhism are an outsider's view, and are not accurate at all.
Which part specifically?

PadmaVonSamba wrote: If someone were to reply to that post (with all those Urantia quotes) with a response that you wanted to hear, what would that response be?
Whatever the truth happens to be.
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Grigoris
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Grigoris »

I was going to reply in detail to the claims made in the Urantia quotes but there is so much crap in there that it would take up to much of my valuable time and energy. What made an impression on me is that now you are quoting misinformed new age bullshit in order to prove to Buddhists that they believe in God. And you know why? Coz you cannot find anything relevant in the Buddhist Canons to prove to yourself (coz nobody else seems to be listening anymore) that what you believe is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me GOD!
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Paul
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Paul »

Serenity509 wrote:
PadmaVonSamba wrote:Oddly, A.A. Milne, author of the Winnie the Pooh books has not offered his analysis of Buddhism.
The Urantia Book is claimed to be a divine revelation.
I wouldn't pay any attention to so called 'channelled material'.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Serenity509 wrote:
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Actually, a lot of the Urantia quotes you provided about Buddhism are an outsider's view, and are not accurate at all.
Which part specifically?

PadmaVonSamba wrote: If someone were to reply to that post (with all those Urantia quotes) with a response that you wanted to hear, what would that response be?
Whatever the truth happens to be.
Okay then, I reply to you:
WHATEVER THE TRUTH HAPPENS TO BE

Most buddhists are not concerned with how Urantia, or Mormons, Or Scientologists, or Muslims, or Christians, or Hindus, or Jews, or Sikhs, or Atheists, or Marxists, or Baptists, or Deadheads regard, think about or define Buddhism.
Why should we be concerned with that?

So, the thing is, I don't understand what you are trying to communicate.

The only problem I have personally is that I will only sound arrogant and snobbish if I tell you my opinion of Urantia and the quotes you so generously provided. So, I don't want to get into a discussion about whose belief system is better.

Buddhism is not a god-centered religion. Period. If you want to make Buddha a god in your own life, that is totally up to you, but that is your own trip, that is not Buddha's trip.

Let me ask you, are you hoping to convert people to your own belief system, or looking for people who have "connected the dots" between different traditions , the same way that you have ?
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Serenity509
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Serenity509 »

gregkavarnos wrote:I was going to reply in detail to the claims made in the Urantia quotes but there is so much crap in there that it would take up to much of my valuable time and energy. What made an impression on me is that now you are quoting misinformed new age bullshit in order to prove to Buddhists that they believe in God. And you know why? Coz you cannot find anything relevant in the Buddhist Canons to prove to yourself (coz nobody else seems to be listening anymore) that what you believe is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me GOD!
:namaste:
The Urantia Book isn't "new age," since it was written before the new age movement and doesn't have some of the primary characteristics of the new age movement. It doesn't claim that Buddhism in general believes in God but that Shin Buddhism has a type of belief in God. We really don't need to talk about the Urantia Book. My only point in mentioning it is that the book is favorable toward Shin Buddhism.
2. Is the Urantia Book a New Age book?

Depending upon your definition of “New Age,” the answer could be yes or no. Mainstream religionists tend to group New Age religion under an umbrella covering a myriad of groups and scores of authors basically teaching the following:
1. All is one: all reality is a unitary whole responsive to various forms of magic;
2. Everything is God and God is everything;
3. You are God. You are divine;
4. You will never die; You have lived before and you will live again (reincarnation);
5. You can create your own reality or transform your own consciousness;
6. All religions are true and, therefore, one.

In a literal sense such New Age teachings are not supported by the Urantia Book; so the answer is no, it is not a New Age book. However, many Urantia Book students have discovered the book because of their New Age quests. It could be called the ultimate New Age book because it dispels superstition, clarifies fuzzy, hazy thinking and nebulous concepts, and provides intelligent, logical and meaningful answers to the kinds of questions New Agers, among others, ask.

The last few decades have seen an emergence of various forms of teachings and groups coming from channelers, mystics, avatars, and the like. Many of these contain an esoteric approach to spirituality and some groups become cultlike with rituals, practices and doctrines to be adhered to. If we consider these as a definition of “New Age,” the Urantia Book does not fall into this category. The Urantia Book stresses that we do not have to be mystics with esoteric knowledge in order to live a spiritually meaningful life. It teaches that God is no respecter of persons and that average persons can attain high levels of spiritual understanding and live their lives accordingly. It refers to the times we live in and are about to enter into as the “New Age,” but this is in the context specific to the book’s teachings on modern times. Through a thoughtful reading of its contents, applying our best judgment and listening to our indwelling spirit, we can arrive at our own conclusions.
http://www.squarecircles.com/ubcentral/faq/faq02.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Paul
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Paul »

The New Age is actually pretty old now. I'd definitely say it goes back to the Thelemites and Theosophists - in spirit if not in name.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Let me tell you a story.
There was this one guy who grew up as a prince. He was totally spoiled as a kid and had every luxury and whatever he wanted. His dad even made sure that he never saw anybody get unhappy or sick or any kind of negative thing at all. Still, this guy was not satisfied, and he ran away from home. He hung out with a bunch of religious fanatics who seemed to be on some great spiritual level like nothing he had ever seen before, and soon he became the biggest fanatic of them all. But still, he wasn't satisfied. He was still looking for some final, all-encompassing truth.

Then one day, it occurred to him that even though people had all kinds of wealth, or followed one religion or another, or had some kind of grand philosophy, none of that really mattered. Everybody was still basically unsettled inside. There was always that little bit of dissatisfaction --kind of like a nagging cough that you just can't get rid of. Rich people wanted more money, Gurus wanted more followers, and so on. Nobody had peace of mind. So he went off on his own again, and this time instead of looking outward he looked inward and then he realized that you can't find a path to a peaceful mind...peace of mind was the path (to paraphrase a famous quote about peace).

So, that guy was the Buddha. You remind me of him.

The point of this story is that "Buddhism" in its many institutional forms can be called a religion if you want to see it that way, but what the Buddha taught, his dharma, is not a comparative philosophy. It doesn't really matter what you want to believe for yourself. If Urantia or some other teaching douses the fire of constant craving, then use it. But I don't think anything except Buddhism actually does that. This is why a Buddhist can sit on his or her fat butt without moving, and sit there for hours and hours, year after year. Peace at last! And from that peace: compassion, insight and wisdom.

If you want to be one with the universe, that is fine,
but the universe is full of exploding hydrogen gas and there is no air to breathe.
If you want to be one with god, then do that. But there are a lot of things god can't do. He can't go anywhere. He can't know the joy of being pleasantly surprised. The god of Abraham can't even transcend his own anger and jealousy issues.
But if you want peace of mind, and to finally reach the end of your searching, study the dharma.
:applause:
Last edited by PadmaVonSamba on Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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justsit
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by justsit »

OK, let me get this straight. You asked if Buddhism has a God, because for some reason you want a God in Buddhist robes. Then you mentioned visiting a Shin temple. Then you discovered a book that says that Shin Buddhism has "a type of belief in God." So now you have found what you are looking for, yes?
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Astus
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Astus »

It is a bit funny that God can be seen in the Shin school of Buddhism. What I mean is that Shinshu is a very, if not the most simplified form of Buddhism where the primary goal is to attain birth through faith. Now, this whole God concept is a load of misguided interpretation that has nothing to do with attaining birth in the Pure Land of Amita Buddha. Since it has nothing to do with it there is no point in assuming any relevance to Jodo Shinshu. The Pure Land sutras don't talk about any God, neither do the seven patriarchs. What basis is there of this abstract conceptual proliferation within the Pure Land context? Nothing.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Malcolm
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Astus wrote:It is a bit funny that God can be seen in the Shin school of Buddhism. What I mean is that Shinshu is a very, if not the most simplified form of Buddhism where the primary goal is to attain birth through faith. Now, this whole God concept is a load of misguided interpretation that has nothing to do with attaining birth in the Pure Land of Amita Buddha. Since it has nothing to do with it there is no point in assuming any relevance to Jodo Shinshu. The Pure Land sutras don't talk about any God, neither do the seven patriarchs. What basis is there of this abstract conceptual proliferation within the Pure Land context? Nothing.

There is pretty clear indications that Amitabha literature and modes of conceiving and writing Amitabha's pure land are very influenced by Persian culture.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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Astus
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Astus »

Namdrol wrote:There is pretty clear indications that Amitabha literature and modes of conceiving and writing Amitabha's pure land are very influenced by Persian culture.
The most important parts are the vow and the buddha-land as a safe place for liberation because these are the essentials for attaining enlightenment in that way. Other details make little or no difference at all. And the Pure Land school with focus on recitation and the 18th vow is quite an East Asian thing.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Malcolm
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Astus wrote:
Namdrol wrote:There is pretty clear indications that Amitabha literature and modes of conceiving and writing Amitabha's pure land are very influenced by Persian culture.
The most important parts are the vow and the buddha-land as a safe place for liberation because these are the essentials for attaining enlightenment in that way. Other details make little or no difference at all. And the Pure Land school with focus on recitation and the 18th vow is quite an East Asian thing.

Walled garden forts are pretty safe places.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Namdrol wrote:
There is pretty clear indications that Amitabha literature and modes of conceiving and writing Amitabha's pure land are very influenced by Persian culture.
That's sort of like saying since all binary code is made of 1's and 0's, and since the concept 'zero' (as having numeric value) was an Arabic concept, that the internet is half Arabic.

Who had the first prayer beads? Who burned the first incense? I am not disputing the "pretty clear indications", and would like to hear more, but I don't think it has a whole lot of bearing on what people are working with today. Culture is a BIG thing and the Silk Road went in more than one direction.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Amitabha is running a safe house! sweet!
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Malcolm
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
That's sort of like saying since all binary code is made of 1's and 0's, and since the concept 'zero' (as having numeric value) was an Arabic concept, that the internet is half Arabic.
The zero was invented in India, actually.

N
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
Serenity509
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Serenity509 »

I am not the first person to have interpreted Eastern philosophy in light of the Urantia Book.
THE TAO OF GOD
by Richard S. Omura

The Tao of God restates the Chinese philosopher Lao Tsu's Tao Te Ching using insights gleaned from various disciplines from Transcendental Meditation to Buddhism to Science of Mind to The Urantia Book. Concepts are heavily drawn from the contemporary revelatory work, The Urantia Book. In verse, The Tao of God expresses a philosophy of living that harmonizes logic and intuition, science and religion, Eastern thought and Western thought, existence and non-existence, the material and the spiritual, action and non-action, peace and conflict, stillness and movement, and light and darkness. The Tao of God is an embellishment to the original Tao Te Ching adding 20 extra chapters to present the idea that spiritual insight is infinite.
http://www.richardomura.com/tao/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Malcolm
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Serenity509 wrote:I am not the first person to have interpreted Eastern philosophy in light of the Urantia Book.

Who cares? It has nothing to with the Dharma. In fact, very little that you have written about here has the slightest thing to do with Buddhism at all. Instead, it seems you are intent in broadcasting new age and theistic ideas that really do not have anything in common with what Buddhists understand Buddhism to be about. As such, I question why you bother us with this nonsense.

N
Last edited by Malcolm on Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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