Stained Glass Windows in a Buddhist context?

[nyonchung]

I heard that someone offered to build Sasaki Roshi a big temple, but he declined the offer. His institutions were meant to be lean and practice-oriented. That being said, stained glass is beautiful as long as it doesn't show the Sacred Heart of Jesus or something like that.

Why specially this one? let's be really oecumenic, just think this is Hanuman offreing his heart to lord Ram!
I find anyway that if the church follows a classic Catholic or Anglican setup, it's not really fitting in a Buddhist context.

As for France (but certainly many other European countries) the best solution would have been to buy an old farm house for keeping small community of practitioners around the lama-in-charge, with a field large enough to set a large rented tent up (easily available at resonable costs) on special occasions.
In cities, rent space for large events and for a permanent thing, rent or buy a shop in a ungentrified area. That will do.
Some groups are so small that they meet in one their members large flat (or condo).

Then, imposing Tibetan or Bhutanese architecure is not necessarily a good idea.

[Queequeg]

I met Eric in the early 80's - I saw as well the situation quite closely in France: my verdict: shared responsabily. Incredible lack of common sense. I will not go into details, but when the land where now stands "Temple des 1000 Bouddhas / Pelden Shangpa La Boulaye" was given to Kalu Rinpoché, he said to the lama-in-charge and a few select ones: "No need to build a big temple, don't get into debt, really a small structure will be enough"
there was then - not including the retreat centers - some 3/4 lamas and a dozen residents.

This is of course not what was told next day to the general public (grrrreat temple!) - debts, troubles ... know of another case... where the sponsors draw a lama into a mess that he increased willingly (karma).

Rinpoché's idea was to create a main practicing, where people coming out of retreat could stay (as they do in Tibet) and from where lamas will be sent to teach in the smaller centers (mots of them needed no permanent setting).
And it was supposed to be the seat of Bokar Rinpoché ... rest of the story available on request only.

Culture clash, reciprocate misunderstandings on a large scale ... then yes, there was competition: highest stupa, largest temple (nobody thought of maintenance), now almost empty since years ... not to mention retreat centers

I mentioned in another thread that, for all his Guénonism, Denys Eysseric (Karma Ling, and even if he found of course necessary to have his own center, had a more rational approach and used his money well - he got a serious mishap, arson 4 years back - and I checked y'day, now fully in "full consciousness"

I heard that someone offered to build Sasaki Roshi a big temple, but he declined the offer. His institutions were meant to be lean and practice-oriented. That being said, stained glass is beautiful as long as it doesn't show the Sacred Heart of Jesus or something like that.

I hope we've learned our lessons.

I'm reminded of Downton Abbey where the Crawleys exist to keep up the castle.

Personally, I have impulsive administrative habits and if I was invested as a member of one of those communities with nice buildings I'd probably wear myself out trying to keep up the property. More clear eyed practitioners would likely just avoid these places and find a comfortable shack somewhere where the living is cheap.

I hope institutional Buddhist communities endure so that they can keep up the elaborate practices that have been developed over the centuries... but I'm afraid we're going to go deep into a phase of human history soon where material profligacy is simply not going to be an option due to scarcity and expense of resources. I think the same way persecution in China pressured Chinese Buddhism to largely pare down to Chan and Pure Land, we will see similar pressures on sanghas around the world - material scarcity is going to affect the expressions of Dharma.

One of the things I admire about Eric Columbel, the director of Tsadra, is that he has no interest in bricks and mortar. He is only interested in books. He understands that the future of Dharma lies in translations, not expensive properties.

Strikes me as wise. The teachings are the seeds. If/when circumstances arise for robust Buddhist institutions, they'll grow from there rather than have empty buildings dropped on the landscape with the expectation that they'll fill up naturally.

More generally, maybe we can say that this kind of thinking, building stuff without really thinking about the practicality, is a symptom of the mind set that has dominated for the last century or so and gotten us into this environmental predicament we find ourselves in now.

"Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum."

[Malcolm]

but I'm afraid we're going to go deep into a phase of human history soon where material profligacy is simply not going to be an option due to scarcity and expense of resources.

Well, we are heading back to the good old days where excess material profligacy will a required sign of power among people where virtually everyone is surviving on a subsistence level. Those good old days were just three hundred years ago.

[nyonchung]

... Culture clash, reciprocate misunderstandings on a large scale ... then yes, there was competition: highest stupa, largest temple (nobody thought of maintenance), now almost empty since years ... not to mention retreat centers...

I hope we've learned our lessons.

I hope institutional Buddhist communities endure so that they can keep up the elaborate practices that have been developed over the centuries... but I'm afraid we're going to go deep into a phase of human history soon where material profligacy is simply not going to be an option due to scarcity and expense of resources. I think the same way persecution in China pressured Chinese Buddhism to largely pare down to Chan and Pure Land, we will see similar pressures on sanghas around the world - material scarcity is going to affect the expressions of Dharma.

Well, talking of material scarcity of resources, there was much more scarcity of resources in Tibet, in many areas getting paper was difficult, in Central Tibet timber was almost absent etc ... biographies, histories and "inventories" of some major temples describe in details the long and difficult process to carve a set of books, build a temple, not to mention the scarcity of manpower.
What you call "material scarcity" nowadays is in great part due the growing concentration of money and power into a few hands, the systematic destruction of middle class (and in Europe of all the social rights, pensions and health systems that were perfectly working 30 years back but are sabotaged in order to be sold at a rebte to US companies).Try to find about the "great reset", it's not from somme complotists, it's almost state theory and practice in Europe and France - a sweet mixture of bureaucracy and extreme capitalism that tell you to drop your car (don't give a d., never had oen) etc. but fly themsleves into space ...

[Queequeg]

but I'm afraid we're going to go deep into a phase of human history soon where material profligacy is simply not going to be an option due to scarcity and expense of resources.

Well, we are heading back to the good old days where excess material profligacy will a required sign of power among people where virtually everyone is surviving on a subsistence level. Those good old days were just three hundred years ago.

Good old days. Future Primitive.

[Queequeg]

Well, talking of material scarcity of resources, there was much more scarcity of resources in Tibet, in many areas getting paper was difficult, in Central Tibet timber was almost absent etc ... biographies, histories and "inventories" of some major temples describe in details the long and difficult process to carve a set of books, build a temple, not to mention the scarcity of manpower.

I spent years steeped in medieval Japanese Buddhism. I'm familiar with how people struggled with scarcity. The reverence with which texts are held comes from those centuries when you had to hand copy texts, or support someone full time for several years while they carved the woodblocks, not to mention find the paper. We ought not underestimate the impact of material scarcity on Buddhist norms and culture.

What you call "material scarcity" nowadays is in great part due the growing concentration of money and power into a few hands, the systematic destruction of middle class (and in Europe of all the social rights, pensions and health systems that were perfectly working 30 years back but are sabotaged in order to be sold at a rebte to US companies).Try to find about the "great reset", it's not from somme complotists, it's almost state theory and practice in Europe and France - a sweet mixture of bureaucracy and extreme capitalism that tell you to drop your car (don't give a d., never had oen) etc. but fly themsleves into space ...

Not quite. I'm anticipating that when oil is used up or highly restricted, we're going to have a crash diet of energy consumption that is going to turn the world upside down. Everything we have now, including all that unequal wealth, the sweet mixture of bureaucracy and capitalism, is a function of oil. Oil enables us to transport ourselves and material over long distances cheaply, produce abundant energy for electronic devices, etc. etc. etc. Take away the oil and all that goes away. The civilization is going to collapse. Who knows what comes next.

Anyway, this is going off topic.

Perhaps after we panic and claw at each other for a generation or two, things will settle into a new equilibrium in which dharma will take root.

[nyonchung]

Well, talking of material scarcity of resources, there was much more scarcity of resources in Tibet,...

I spent years steeped in medieval Japanese Buddhism. I'm familiar with how people struggled with scarcity. The reverence with which texts are held comes from those centuries when you had to hand copy texts, or support someone full time for several years while they carved the woodblocks, not to mention find the paper. We ought not underestimate the impact of material scarcity on Buddhist norms and culture.

What you call "material scarcity" ...

Not quite. I'm anticipating that when oil is used up or highly restricted, we're going to have a crash diet of energy consumption that is going to turn the world upside down ...

Tibetan case was diffrent from the case medieval Japan (plus, the monasteries benefited often from Mongol then Chinese emperors' generosity) - anyway compared to an insdustrial world, yes - but scarcity much more on limited local resources, a dispersed population and vast distances to cover to bring specific things as timber etc ...

Let's go a further bit 'restricted" is right: this oil crash is partly engineered - oil almost dropped to 0$ at the beginning of COVID and some funds nominaly anti-oil bought huge shares for nothing. I studied Geography in University in 1972, I can certify you that we have no more oil since 25 years by the then estimations.
Back to topic, many modern (since c. 1930) stained glass windows in moderm Catholic churches are often non figuratiive /abstract art, and older ones are not necessarily having figurative designs but geometrical patterns instead - possibly for questions of cost.

[Pema Tingdron]

If a church is repurposed as a Buddhist temple, and it has specifically Christian stained glass, it would be friendliest to freely offer the stained glass pieces to a Christian community for their own use.

If the stained glass is attractive and also abstract (without a specific design), it's nice to keep it.

And if removing existing glass means there's a huge pane or two waiting to be filled, there are fantastic artists capable of creating very beautiful Buddhist pieces. One Buddhist centre in my town commissioned such a piece, which I think was made by this artist. Backlit stained glass has a quality of luminosity, which can be especially helpful for students who are struggling with visualization.

As to whether churches should or shouldn't be repurposed as Buddhist centres, I don't have a strong opinion either way, but to me there's something lovely about having a continuum of spiritual practice in a place, whether it's Buddhist, Christian or something else.

[jamesrigzin]

Yes, indeed - that artist is Tsunma Jamyang Donma, student of Nyoshul Khenpo Rinpoche, Khenpo Sonam Rinpoche and Phakchok Rinpoche. She lives in Toronto, Ontario and works as a Buddhist Chaplain at Sickkids Hospital. Her glass painting studio is in Cambridge, Ontario, and is called Yulokod Studios. Fantastic artist and admirable practitioner.

https://www.yulokod.ca/wrathful-ones.html