Throw your black Saturn cube/kubrick 2001 space odyssey monolith in the garbage.
Unless you’re a little bored, and want to watch something like Naruto Shippuden every once in awhile; or better yet a Dharma documentary.
John McWhorter talks sense. Some people here have got partisan horse blinders on, however.KristenM wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:37 pm Interesting take on "Wokeness."
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/book ... mcwhorter/
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/opin ... ation.html
Hope you don't get a paywall.
Well, how are white only covenants in deeds all over the United States not systemic racism?Archie2009 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:51 pmJohn McWhorter talks sense. Some people here have got partisan horse blinders on, however.KristenM wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:37 pm Interesting take on "Wokeness."
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/book ... mcwhorter/
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/opin ... ation.html
Hope you don't get a paywall.
Malcolm, John McWhorter does not deny the existence of systemic racism. (I watched the following video a couple of months ago and saved it, so I'm just going to post the link here. I might rewatch it this afternoon.)Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:12 pmWell, how are white only covenants in deeds all over the United States not systemic racism?Archie2009 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:51 pmJohn McWhorter talks sense. Some people here have got partisan horse blinders on, however.KristenM wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:37 pm Interesting take on "Wokeness."
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/book ... mcwhorter/
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/opin ... ation.html
Hope you don't get a paywall.
How is the gradual defunding of public schools in North Carolina, etc., after desegregation, and the rise of private white only schools posing as Christian academies not systemic racism?
His thesis, that some disparities we see may originate in the sociology of Black people, may be true, however, how can he claim that very sociology was not formed by the deeply racist, post-reconstruction period in the US? Long and short of it, he can’t.
The arguments for systemic racism in America are far stronger than those against. But I know white people, Bill Maher, etc., take comfort in the soothing words of the few Black intellectuals who seek to disarm its more serious implications. Indeed, Friday, Bill was going off about wokeness again with George Will, and just repeated Fox News talking points. He was pretty unhappy his other guest, Christina Bellantoni pushed back hard against his assertions. He also, cluelessly, went off on the so-called Black national anthem, forgetting that the original poem on which our national anthem is based, explicitly supports slavery.
Btw,, the Queen is a BLM supporter.
I am aware. My point was that people like Bill M use his critiques as a basis for undermining a CRT, etc., as a whole.Archie2009 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:19 pm Malcolm, John McWhorter does not deny the existence of systemic racism. (I watched the following video a couple of months ago and saved it, so I'm just going to post the link here. I might rewatch it this afternoon.)
Thomas Schramm, who graduated fromHarvard-Westlake last spring, believes the woke/anti-woke debate is “more of a parent problem than a student problem. Parents who didn’t necessarily know what was being taught, or who didn’t understand what was being taught, reached their own conclusions,” Schramm says. “A lot of this is students who are on Zoom at home, their parents are in the same room with them, and they’re hearing a lot of this information that’s being taught to their kids, and they might not get the full context of what’s going on.”
Bill Maher is super annoying and unfunny imo. That said, just because Fox News or Bill M., gets a hold of an idea and attempts to reject the whole CRT by criticizing its parts doesn’t make all the parts true or untrue. One thing I would like to see is people on every side stop pretending as if their side doesn’t have any valid criticisms of itself. To me it’s a big flaw in American politics.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:24 pmI am aware. My point was that people like Bill M use his critiques as a basis for undermining a CRT, etc., as a whole.Archie2009 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:19 pm Malcolm, John McWhorter does not deny the existence of systemic racism. (I watched the following video a couple of months ago and saved it, so I'm just going to post the link here. I might rewatch it this afternoon.)
CRT, Intersectionality, Queer Theory, Fat Studies, etc are not serious subjects. They are unscientific postmodernism infused BS. And divisive. And, yes, often racist or lead to racism.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:24 pmI am aware. My point was that people like Bill M use his critiques as a basis for undermining a CRT, etc., as a whole.Archie2009 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:19 pm Malcolm, John McWhorter does not deny the existence of systemic racism. (I watched the following video a couple of months ago and saved it, so I'm just going to post the link here. I might rewatch it this afternoon.)
Intersectionality and “identity” politics grew out the recognition in 1970’s by black radical lesbians that white radical lesbians wanted them to abandon black men. Black lesbians pushed back against this by pointing out they had a set of issues on the basis of the fact that not only were they lesbians, and thus subject to discrimination, but they were also Black, and subject to yet another layer of discrimination their white colleagues would never experience. So they refused to bow to the pressure put on them by the white lesbians to abandon Black men in the continuing struggle of Black people to secure their civil rights.Archie2009 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:30 am CRT, Intersectionality, Queer Theory, Fat Studies, etc are not serious subjects. They are unscientific postmodernism infused BS. And divisive. And, yes, often racist or lead to racism.
In my experience, it's a mix. Many of the initial proponents of CRT were/are socialists of some stripe, and class analysis was baked in. As CRT moved from a way specifically to analyze American legal jurisprudence* to a broader Theory of Everything, some of the nuance has been lost (or maybe stripped out).Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:30 pm On CRT: To piggyback of what QQ said, unfortunately CRT rarely touches on common class grievances. Having had a little exposure to it, the academics can get pretty navel-gazy.
The thing is, the success of this current anti-CRT movement partially hinges on exploiting the resentment of the same poor whites QQ is talking about. That’s only possible by obfuscating class dynamics. Unfortunately, In that sense modern liberalism - which has adopted some of the language of CRT, at least in theory- does half the job for conservatives.
Race, in America, is class, IMO.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:30 pm On CRT: To piggyback of what QQ said, unfortunately CRT rarely touches on common class grievances.
The hysteria over CRT is just another example of right-wing race baiting.Genjo Conan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:17 pm CRT as a method of legal analysis was relatively uncontroversial until very recently. People could agree or disagree, but it was put in the same basket as Legal Realism or Law & Economics: another analytical tool. My decidedly non-woke law school had at least one CRT-based seminar, for example.
That's a little too reductionist, I think. There are numerous underprivileged and deprived classes. Race defines many of them. And by that we could talk about poor Scotch Irish in Appalachia or my French Canadian ancestors, both underprivileged groups who have been in N. America as long as Africans who were brought over as slaves and who have historically suffered discrimination, or even those rural yankees you live among. They do have the advantage of putting on the right clothes and losing their accents and fitting in with mainstream privileged white society - but that doesn't take into account the way someone raised in those discriminated communities may be conditioned by their history for generations. To suggest being from a poor white background is the same as being poor and black is of course silly. But to say that there is nothing similar is silly also.Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:20 pmRace, in America, is class, IMO.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:30 pm On CRT: To piggyback of what QQ said, unfortunately CRT rarely touches on common class grievances.
No, it is pretty much race based. Poor whites in the US were systematically given rights denied to Blacks and Indigenous people.Queequeg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:37 pmThat's a little too reductionist, I think. There are numerous underprivileged and deprived classes. Race defines many of them. And by that we could talk about poor Scotch Irish in Appalachia or my French Canadian ancestors, both underprivileged groups who have been in N. America as long as Africans who were brought over as slaves and who have historically suffered discrimination, or even those rural yankees you live among.Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:20 pmRace, in America, is class, IMO.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:30 pm On CRT: To piggyback of what QQ said, unfortunately CRT rarely touches on common class grievances.
Really? We read bits of the seminal people in school and the logic seemed to mostly reject the notion of class solidarity or even shared experiences based on class. Everything was based on personal narratives of oppression based on racial indentity, and -lots- of navel gazing based on said identities. It may just be how the stuff I read was curated. Can you recommend some CRT people who take class seriously?Genjo Conan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:17 pmIn my experience, it's a mix. Many of the initial proponents of CRT were/are socialists of some stripe, and class analysis was baked in. As CRT moved from a way specifically to analyze American legal jurisprudence* to a broader Theory of Everything, some of the nuance has been lost (or maybe stripped out).Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:30 pm On CRT: To piggyback of what QQ said, unfortunately CRT rarely touches on common class grievances. Having had a little exposure to it, the academics can get pretty navel-gazy.
The thing is, the success of this current anti-CRT movement partially hinges on exploiting the resentment of the same poor whites QQ is talking about. That’s only possible by obfuscating class dynamics. Unfortunately, In that sense modern liberalism - which has adopted some of the language of CRT, at least in theory- does half the job for conservatives.
*And, lest we forget, CRT as a method of legal analysis was relatively uncontroversial until very recently. People could agree or disagree, but it was put in the same basket as Legal Realism or Law & Economics: another analytical tool. My decidedly non-woke law school had at least one CRT-based seminar, for example.
We'll have to agree to disagree. The treatment of blacks in N. America is among the great injustices that define the United States. But, we could also include the genocide of Native Americans right up there. There's also been discrimination against brown and yellow people, not at the same levels of horror and impact. There has also been systematic discrimination, de jure and de facto, against various white ethnic groups.Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:51 pmNo, it is pretty much race based. Poor whites in the US were systematically given rights denied to Blacks and Indigenous people.Queequeg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:37 pmThat's a little too reductionist, I think. There are numerous underprivileged and deprived classes. Race defines many of them. And by that we could talk about poor Scotch Irish in Appalachia or my French Canadian ancestors, both underprivileged groups who have been in N. America as long as Africans who were brought over as slaves and who have historically suffered discrimination, or even those rural yankees you live among.
The Scots-Irish were the last peoples from the Britain proper come here in any numbers, migrating principally in the 18th and 19th century. What is true is that slave trade was increasing rapidly at the same time the Scots-Irish began coming over here. But you know, 1619.
Time to reread Zinn.
I’ve read Zinn and seen him speak/met him. I even share his last name!Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:51 pmNo, it is pretty much race based. Poor whites in the US were systematically given rights denied to Blacks and Indigenous people.Queequeg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:37 pmThat's a little too reductionist, I think. There are numerous underprivileged and deprived classes. Race defines many of them. And by that we could talk about poor Scotch Irish in Appalachia or my French Canadian ancestors, both underprivileged groups who have been in N. America as long as Africans who were brought over as slaves and who have historically suffered discrimination, or even those rural yankees you live among.
The Scots-Irish were the last peoples from the Britain proper come here in any numbers, migrating principally in the 18th and 19th century. What is true is that slave trade was increasing rapidly at the same time the Scots-Irish began coming over here. But you know, 1619.
Time to reread Zinn.