So sad

[Danny]

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/boxer-jeane ... fter-fight

Zapata, from Mexico, suffered a series of power punches in the corner of the ring. After a solid uppercut, she seemed stunned near the end of the fourth round. A final right hook knocked her mouthguard out and left her unable to return to her corner after the bell rang.

[Malcolm]

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/boxer-jeane ... fter-fight

Zapata, from Mexico, suffered a series of power punches in the corner of the ring. After a solid uppercut, she seemed stunned near the end of the fourth round. A final right hook knocked her mouthguard out and left her unable to return to her corner after the bell rang.

Boxing should be illegal.

[Johnny Dangerous]

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/boxer-jeane ... fter-fight

Zapata, from Mexico, suffered a series of power punches in the corner of the ring. After a solid uppercut, she seemed stunned near the end of the fourth round. A final right hook knocked her mouthguard out and left her unable to return to her corner after the bell rang.

Yep, people die periodically in combat sports..and contact sports generally. I don't advocate Buddhists going out and competing but I think moralizing over them is also largely unproductive, prize fighting is (like drugs) something which IMO has always and will always exist in human societies. Last I looked into it, Boxing is one of the riskier ones, but it isn't at the top. Think about motocross, bullriding, mountain climbing etc.

I've never found terribly reliable side by side comparisons, but here are some examples:

https://pursuingoutdoors.com/which-extr ... dangerous/

https://www.sportscasting.com/deadliest ... snt-think/

AFAIK boxing is usually something like 10th or 11th in terms of fatalities, so arguments for banning it need to be based on other things than death statistic. Indeed, some are, I have read articles by doctors saying that the "brutality" of it makes for a good case. This is a pretty vague argument for prohibition, and it usually comes from people not really familiar with the sport, though not always.

Read about what boxing and prize-fighting used to be like, the landscape is much better than it once was.

I admit as a person who has dabbled (just barely) in combat sport and does martial arts I have some biases, but I disagree that these things should be illegal, because history shows they just go underground with fewer rules, where they become much more dangerous.

They are better in the light of day, where people can advocate for greater safety requirements and better treatment for fighters (exactly what has happened btw, these sports are infinitely safer today than they were even in the 60's on 70's, though certainly still plenty risky). Every major reform in the rules of boxing has led to it being safer...with the possible exception of the gloves and headgear, which some argue have paradoxically made long term damage from CTE a greater likelihood.

They do not say what killed her specifically, I'd be interested to know if it was aneurysm or what. . CTE and head injury are typically a longer-term risk and a more prominent one than death and are as much or more effected by how people train as by the risk of actual fights - again something which has greatly changed for the better in the past 20 years or so, to the best of my knowledge.

I think a harm reduction approach is the sanest one, if one wants to focus their energies on things like this.

[Malcolm]

I think a harm reduction approach is the sanest one, if one wants to focus their energies on things like this.

The best way to reduce the harm of boxing is not to do it.

[Danny]

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/boxer-jeane ... fter-fight

Zapata, from Mexico, suffered a series of power punches in the corner of the ring. After a solid uppercut, she seemed stunned near the end of the fourth round. A final right hook knocked her mouthguard out and left her unable to return to her corner after the bell rang.

Yep, people die periodically in combat sports..and contact sports generally. I don't advocate Buddhists going out and competing but I think moralizing over them is also largely unproductive, prize fighting is (like drugs) something which IMO has always and will always exist in human societies. Last I looked into it, Boxing is one of the riskier ones, but it isn't at the top. Think about motocross, bullriding, mountain climbing etc.

I've never found terribly reliable side by side comparisons, but here are some examples:

https://pursuingoutdoors.com/which-extr ... dangerous/

https://www.sportscasting.com/deadliest ... snt-think/

AFAIK boxing is usually something like 10th or 11th in terms of fatalities, so arguments for banning it need to be based on other things than death statistic. Indeed, some are, I have read articles by doctors saying that the "brutality" of it makes for a good case. This is a pretty vague argument for prohibition, and it usually comes from people not really familiar with the sport, though not always.

Read about what boxing and prize-fighting used to be like, the landscape is much better than it once was.

I admit as a person who has dabbled (just barely) in combat sport and does martial arts I have some biases, but I disagree that these things should be illegal, because history shows they just go underground with fewer rules, where they become much more dangerous.

They are better in the light of day, where people can advocate for greater safety requirements and better treatment for fighters (exactly what has happened btw, these sports are infinitely safer today than they were even in the 60's on 70's, though certainly still plenty risky). Every major reform in the rules of boxing has led to it being safer...with the possible exception of the gloves and headgear, which some argue have paradoxically made long term damage from CTE a greater likelihood.

They do not say what killed her specifically, I'd be interested to know if it was aneurysm or what. . CTE and head injury are typically a longer-term risk and a more prominent one than death and are as much or more effected by how people train as by the risk of actual fights - again something which has greatly changed for the better in the past 20 years or so, to the best of my knowledge.

I think a harm reduction approach is the sanest one, if one wants to focus their energies on things like this.

As someone who used to box, I agree with mostly what you say.

My only contention is with the gloves.
I’ve seen more long term damage done with gloves than with bare knuckle.

This story still breaks my heart though.

Licensed boxing ...what a joke

[Johnny Dangerous]

I think a harm reduction approach is the sanest one, if one wants to focus their energies on things like this.

The best way to reduce the harm of boxing is not to do it.

That worked out fantastically with the prohibition of alcohol, drugs, etc.

[Malcolm]

I think a harm reduction approach is the sanest one, if one wants to focus their energies on things like this.

The best way to reduce the harm of boxing is not to do it.

That worked out fantastically with the prohibition of alcohol, drugs, etc.

Just expressing my opinion JD. I also think guns should be illegal and the second amendment should be repealed. Again, just an opinion.

[Johnny Dangerous]

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/boxer-jeane ... fter-fight

Zapata, from Mexico, suffered a series of power punches in the corner of the ring. After a solid uppercut, she seemed stunned near the end of the fourth round. A final right hook knocked her mouthguard out and left her unable to return to her corner after the bell rang.

Yep, people die periodically in combat sports..and contact sports generally. I don't advocate Buddhists going out and competing but I think moralizing over them is also largely unproductive, prize fighting is (like drugs) something which IMO has always and will always exist in human societies. Last I looked into it, Boxing is one of the riskier ones, but it isn't at the top. Think about motocross, bullriding, mountain climbing etc.

I've never found terribly reliable side by side comparisons, but here are some examples:

https://pursuingoutdoors.com/which-extr ... dangerous/

https://www.sportscasting.com/deadliest ... snt-think/

AFAIK boxing is usually something like 10th or 11th in terms of fatalities, so arguments for banning it need to be based on other things than death statistic. Indeed, some are, I have read articles by doctors saying that the "brutality" of it makes for a good case. This is a pretty vague argument for prohibition, and it usually comes from people not really familiar with the sport, though not always.

Read about what boxing and prize-fighting used to be like, the landscape is much better than it once was.

I admit as a person who has dabbled (just barely) in combat sport and does martial arts I have some biases, but I disagree that these things should be illegal, because history shows they just go underground with fewer rules, where they become much more dangerous.

They are better in the light of day, where people can advocate for greater safety requirements and better treatment for fighters (exactly what has happened btw, these sports are infinitely safer today than they were even in the 60's on 70's, though certainly still plenty risky). Every major reform in the rules of boxing has led to it being safer...with the possible exception of the gloves and headgear, which some argue have paradoxically made long term damage from CTE a greater likelihood.

They do not say what killed her specifically, I'd be interested to know if it was aneurysm or what. . CTE and head injury are typically a longer-term risk and a more prominent one than death and are as much or more effected by how people train as by the risk of actual fights - again something which has greatly changed for the better in the past 20 years or so, to the best of my knowledge.

I think a harm reduction approach is the sanest one, if one wants to focus their energies on things like this.

As someone who used to box, I agree with mostly what you say.

My only contention is with the gloves.
I’ve seen more long term damage done with gloves than with bare knuckle.

This story still breaks my heart though.

Licensed boxing ...what a joke

Well, I think for long term CTE it is kind of indisputable that the gloves (and headgear in amateur) lead to longer bouts, which means more hits sustained. However, the teeny four ouncers (or whatever they are) worn by MMA people result in less of that, and they are (evidence is preliminary but convincing) are still getting the same issues. Getting hit in the head is terrible for you, period, in any way really.

But yeah, it's heartbreaking. When I was training at the Boxing gym one thing that always got me was how these young guys would come in with this burning desire to "be the champ", and it was like they weren't thinking about the fact that that's a pretty risky proposition. But I mean, that is part of the whole issue.

Young men and women literally are still developing and living under the notion that they are invincible, and of course they are in their physical prime so.....it's a situation ripe for exploitation, ignorance, etc.

Still, I'd maintain that banning it won't work for reasons already mentioned.

I wouldn't let my own kids do it, under any cricumstances.

My son was with me for a bit at the gym, and the coach started talking about how he might have some talent, put the kibosh on that conversation right away. If people want to compete in combat sports there are much safer options.

I loved learning it, but I wasn't about to 1) spar with 20 year olds that want to go at near full bore (that ish is crazy once you are in your 40's lol), 2) let my kids be pulled into the notion that it is a good idea or career path, lol.

[Johnny Dangerous]

The best way to reduce the harm of boxing is not to do it.

That worked out fantastically with the prohibition of alcohol, drugs, etc.

Just expressing my opinion JD. I also think guns should be illegal and the second amendment should be repealed. Again, just an opinion.

Same here, not offended, and I get why people see it that way. Just putting my own rationale out there.

[Danny]

Yep, people die periodically in combat sports..and contact sports generally. I don't advocate Buddhists going out and competing but I think moralizing over them is also largely unproductive, prize fighting is (like drugs) something which IMO has always and will always exist in human societies. Last I looked into it, Boxing is one of the riskier ones, but it isn't at the top. Think about motocross, bullriding, mountain climbing etc.

I've never found terribly reliable side by side comparisons, but here are some examples:

https://pursuingoutdoors.com/which-extr ... dangerous/

https://www.sportscasting.com/deadliest ... snt-think/

AFAIK boxing is usually something like 10th or 11th in terms of fatalities, so arguments for banning it need to be based on other things than death statistic. Indeed, some are, I have read articles by doctors saying that the "brutality" of it makes for a good case. This is a pretty vague argument for prohibition, and it usually comes from people not really familiar with the sport, though not always.

Read about what boxing and prize-fighting used to be like, the landscape is much better than it once was.

I admit as a person who has dabbled (just barely) in combat sport and does martial arts I have some biases, but I disagree that these things should be illegal, because history shows they just go underground with fewer rules, where they become much more dangerous.

They are better in the light of day, where people can advocate for greater safety requirements and better treatment for fighters (exactly what has happened btw, these sports are infinitely safer today than they were even in the 60's on 70's, though certainly still plenty risky). Every major reform in the rules of boxing has led to it being safer...with the possible exception of the gloves and headgear, which some argue have paradoxically made long term damage from CTE a greater likelihood.

They do not say what killed her specifically, I'd be interested to know if it was aneurysm or what. . CTE and head injury are typically a longer-term risk and a more prominent one than death and are as much or more effected by how people train as by the risk of actual fights - again something which has greatly changed for the better in the past 20 years or so, to the best of my knowledge.

I think a harm reduction approach is the sanest one, if one wants to focus their energies on things like this.

As someone who used to box, I agree with mostly what you say.

My only contention is with the gloves.
I’ve seen more long term damage done with gloves than with bare knuckle.

This story still breaks my heart though.

Licensed boxing ...what a joke

Well, I think for long term CTE it is kind of indisputable that the gloves (and headgear in amateur) lead to longer bouts, which means more hits sustained. However, the teeny four ouncers (or whatever they are) worn by MMA people result in less of that, and they are (evidence is preliminary but convincing) are still getting the same issues. Getting hit in the head is terrible for you, period, in any way really.

But yeah, it's heartbreaking. When I was training at the Boxing gym one thing that always got me was how these young guys would come in with this burning desire to "be the champ", and it was like they weren't thinking about the fact that that's a pretty risky proposition. But I mean, that is part of the whole issue.

Young men and women literally are still developing and living under the notion that they are invincible, and of course they are in their physical prime so.....it's a situation ripe for exploitation, ignorance, etc.

Still, I'd maintain that banning it won't work for reasons already mentioned.

I wouldn't let my own kids do it, under any cricumstances.

My son was with me for a bit at the gym, and the coach started talking about how he might have some talent, put the kibosh on that conversation right away. If people want to compete in combat sports there are much safer options.

I loved learning it, but I wasn't about to 1) spar with 20 year olds that want to go at near full bore (that ish is crazy once you are in your 40's lol), 2) let me kids be pulled into the notion that it is a good idea or career path, lol.

Funny thing is I got introduced to boxing at school..I agree with you about the exploitation aspect.
But as a sport - absolutely it is. The art is to hit and not be hit, in that regard boxing is a discipline. I used to go with my father on Wednesday nights to the amateur and Friday nights for the professional bouts.

I’ve seen some amazing craft over the years..

But this guy don king destroyed boxing.
(Whom I’ve met personally btw)

This news story still bummed me out ..
Tragic

[Danny]

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/boxer-jeane ... fter-fight

Zapata, from Mexico, suffered a series of power punches in the corner of the ring. After a solid uppercut, she seemed stunned near the end of the fourth round. A final right hook knocked her mouthguard out and left her unable to return to her corner after the bell rang.

Boxing should be illegal.

Maybe..
Is it worth a life?

No

[KristenM]

The best way to reduce the harm of boxing is not to do it.

That worked out fantastically with the prohibition of alcohol, drugs, etc.

Just expressing my opinion JD. I also think guns should be illegal and the second amendment should be repealed. Again, just an opinion.

Can we keep football?

[Malcolm]

That worked out fantastically with the prohibition of alcohol, drugs, etc.

Just expressing my opinion JD. I also think guns should be illegal and the second amendment should be repealed. Again, just an opinion.

Can we keep football?

Nope. You will all be forced to watch Ted Lasso until your eyes bleed.

[KristenM]

I know a 13 year old girl who is boxing, she is also of Mexican-American heritage. I detest how dangerous and violent this "sport" is, but to her she feels it's empowering. She told me she goes to fight in boxing matches and says to herself, "I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make progress." It is twisted that in order for some to feel they have some power, they end up being turned into "fighters", like Roman slaves/Gladiators pleasing the elites. It's always the poorest who find boxing as their way up, be it in Cuba, Mexico, you name it. Rich white dudes don't box. They don't need to.

[KristenM]

Just expressing my opinion JD. I also think guns should be illegal and the second amendment should be repealed. Again, just an opinion.

Can we keep football?

Nope. You will all be forced to watch Ted Lasso until your eyes bleed.

That's f'd up!

[Malcolm]

I know a 13 year old girl who is boxing, she is also of Mexican-American heritage. I detest how dangerous and violent this "sport" is, but to her she feels it's empowering. She told me she goes to fight in boxing matches and says to herself, "I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make progress." It is twisted that in order for some to feel they have some power, they end up being turned into "fighters", like Roman slaves/Gladiators pleasing the elites. It's always the poorest who find boxing as their way up, be it in Cuba, Mexico, you name it. Rich white dudes don't box. They don't need to.

My distaste for boxing began when I was in 7th grade, and some guys in Gym class were hassling me for having long hair (1974). The coach, a major asshole, gave us boxing gloves, and had us fight in front of the whole class. Needless to say, I more or less just kept my head down. It sucked. Also, all the guys on the football team sucked too. Hence my distaste for both sports.

[KristenM]

I know a 13 year old girl who is boxing, she is also of Mexican-American heritage. I detest how dangerous and violent this "sport" is, but to her she feels it's empowering. She told me she goes to fight in boxing matches and says to herself, "I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make progress." It is twisted that in order for some to feel they have some power, they end up being turned into "fighters", like Roman slaves/Gladiators pleasing the elites. It's always the poorest who find boxing as their way up, be it in Cuba, Mexico, you name it. Rich white dudes don't box. They don't need to.

My distaste for boxing began when I was in 7th grade, and some guys in Gym class were hassling me for having long hair (1974). The coach, a major asshole, gave us boxing gloves, and had us fight in front of the whole class. Needless to say, I more or less just kept my head down. It sucked. Also, all the guys on the football team sucked too. Hence my distaste for both sports.

For sure. I’ve never been fond of gym class and dumb jocks myself. Then you find out later in life that they aren’t all morons, they’re sometimes working class heroes, some maybe even Rhodes Scholars. But not Tom Brady, that guy is a douche.

[KristenM]

I know a 13 year old girl who is boxing, she is also of Mexican-American heritage. I detest how dangerous and violent this "sport" is, but to her she feels it's empowering. She told me she goes to fight in boxing matches and says to herself, "I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make progress." It is twisted that in order for some to feel they have some power, they end up being turned into "fighters", like Roman slaves/Gladiators pleasing the elites. It's always the poorest who find boxing as their way up, be it in Cuba, Mexico, you name it. Rich white dudes don't box. They don't need to.

My distaste for boxing began when I was in 7th grade, and some guys in Gym class were hassling me for having long hair (1974). The coach, a major asshole, gave us boxing gloves, and had us fight in front of the whole class. Needless to say, I more or less just kept my head down. It sucked. Also, all the guys on the football team sucked too. Hence my distaste for both sports.

It's a far cry from Boston, but David Allen Coe knew what you were going through. Except you don't fight, and you aren't a Redneck.

[Johnny Dangerous]

I know a 13 year old girl who is boxing, she is also of Mexican-American heritage. I detest how dangerous and violent this "sport" is, but to her she feels it's empowering. She told me she goes to fight in boxing matches and says to herself, "I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make progress." It is twisted that in order for some to feel they have some power, they end up being turned into "fighters", like Roman slaves/Gladiators pleasing the elites. It's always the poorest who find boxing as their way up, be it in Cuba, Mexico, you name it. Rich white dudes don't box. They don't need to.

Despite it's reputation and the admitted brutality and exploitation that comes with the competitive aspect, for some kids Boxing is both a way off the streets and a significant source of discipline and long term personal growth, such as it is. Not all gyms exclusively turn people into fighters, it varies. There are plenty of gyms that have hobbyists, fitness people etc. attending them too.

But yes, these days an honest to god old school boxing gym is likely to be one of the least white places you can hang out, in my experience. Honestly that's a good thing sometimes and it makes me recall it even more fondly to read white Buddhists on an online forum talk about how it should be illegal

While there's some truth to the criticisms here, y'all really have no idea what you're talking about if you haven't stepped into a Boxing gym and spent some time there, there are real positive aspects to it, though I don't think they make up for negatives generally. Professional Boxing and kids who wanna be champ is one aspect of it, as is exploitation and brutality, but it is by no means the only one, and there is a part of boxing that is pretty removed from professional aspirations.

Rich white dudes don't box. They don't need to.

Uh, Logan Paul. Sometimes they do. Mickey Rourke had a whole really dumb rich guy boxing "career".

[Danny]

I know a 13 year old girl who is boxing, she is also of Mexican-American heritage. I detest how dangerous and violent this "sport" is, but to her she feels it's empowering. She told me she goes to fight in boxing matches and says to herself, "I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make progress." It is twisted that in order for some to feel they have some power, they end up being turned into "fighters", like Roman slaves/Gladiators pleasing the elites. It's always the poorest who find boxing as their way up, be it in Cuba, Mexico, you name it. Rich white dudes don't box. They don't need to.

My distaste for boxing began when I was in 7th grade, and some guys in Gym class were hassling me for having long hair (1974). The coach, a major asshole, gave us boxing gloves, and had us fight in front of the whole class. Needless to say, I more or less just kept my head down. It sucked. Also, all the guys on the football team sucked too. Hence my distaste for both sports.

It's a far cry from Boston, but David Allen Coe knew what you were going through. Except you don't fight, and you aren't a Redneck.

Pay you no mind .