What are your thoughts on DMT and the entities people claim to encounter?

[Malcolm]

It really put me off. It seems like a powerful agent, but the result is probably delusion even if it feels pleasant.

Ayahuasca in particular can open oneself up to provocations.

Could you elaborate on that? It sounds very interesting and a bit magical. I dig stuff like that.

It was not interesting to the person who experienced it. They were quite troubled by it. They had taken Ayahuasca in a park in New Jersey of all places. After they were troubled by provocations for some time.

You know from your reading that one can meet entities while in this state. Sometimes they are malevolent.

[Toenail]

Why explicitly in that state though? Do spirits find you easier or so? What is happening when you take Ayahuasca?

[Danny]

Plants that grow together- go together.

In the popol vuh ..
There is a description of the “innocent” people’s born of light (Amero quetzalcoatl) the plumed dragon bird of light, that could see everything.. I mean see through everything under the sky, but the makers, the modelers, decided too cloud their creations visions to make them
- not like them...

A descent into mud and dirt,
Wood etc The elements become course.
Solidify into flesh and bones and blood. Separation of them and us.. paranoia grows.
Now sacrifice too atone becomes a “thing”.

Also described in the rig vedas.

[Sādhaka]

Malcolm once quoted or referenced Garab Dorje as saying that if your mind is unusually rigid, it could be useful to ‘loosen’ it up by trying a ‘entheogenic’ plant.

The implication being that most don’t need something like that, however in rare cases it may help.

There is an neo-Gnostic group that said pretty much the exact same thing; however they added a caveat that the only plant really worth trying here would be a very specific variety of peyote or peyotl, that is only found in a specific mountain range in Columbia (i.e. it won’t be found in Mexico or Southern USA).

Just to add a funny related quote:

“But do you understand the Toad?” — Mike Tyson, in an ESPN interview

[Malcolm]

Why explicitly in that state though? Do spirits find you easier or so? What is happening when you take Ayahuasca?

One, people often take Aya because they want to meet plant guides. So there is an expectation of meeting such beings, since it is part of the lore.

Two, the people who lead such sessions are often thralls of provocations themselves, IMO.

As you rightly pointed out, it is all pretty low level. If it has value, it has value for people in that indigenous culture only.

[Sādhaka]

I’m not very skeptical of the ‘existence’ of plant elementals.

However my ‘understanding’ is that some of them are ‘tricksters’, and one needs awareness of such and that these types need to be handled accordingly....

[Danny]

Why explicitly in that state though? Do spirits find you easier or so? What is happening when you take Ayahuasca?

One, people often take Aya because they want to meet plant guides. So there is an expectation of meeting such beings, since it is part of the lore.

Two, the people who lead such sessions are often thralls of provocations themselves, IMO.

As you rightly pointed out, it is all pretty low level. If it has value, it has value for people in that indigenous culture only.

I actually agree with this, there is a preconceived notion, an expectation of certain results, that render such experiences as “tainted” from the start.

There is often the lore of ritual and spiritual foreshadowing of such an experience that I feel taints the outcome.

The individual is there for a reason.

The provocation part Malcolm is eluding too actually is actually a psychology of the individual and such powerful hallucinogenic’s will definitely influence the experience.

Is why I don’t pay any attention to trip “gurus”

Terrance being such an asshole..

[SilenceMonkey]

Ayahuasca in particular can open oneself up to provocations.

Could you elaborate on that? It sounds very interesting and a bit magical. I dig stuff like that.

It was not interesting to the person who experienced it. They were quite troubled by it. They had taken Ayahuasca in a park in New Jersey of all places. After they were troubled by provocations for some time.

You know from your reading that one can meet entities while in this state. Sometimes they are malevolent.

Was there a shaman conducting the ceremony or were they taking it like drugs?

[Toenail]

Ayahuasca in particular can open oneself up to provocations.

Could you elaborate on that? It sounds very interesting and a bit magical. I dig stuff like that.

It was not interesting to the person who experienced it. They were quite troubled by it. They had taken Ayahuasca in a park in New Jersey of all places. After they were troubled by provocations for some time.

You know from your reading that one can meet entities while in this state. Sometimes they are malevolent.

What spirit class? How did the provocations manifest? Dreams?

[Malcolm]

Was there a shaman conducting the ceremony or were they taking it like drugs?

There was some kind of person leading this.

[Malcolm]

What spirit class? How did the provocations manifest? Dreams?

Dreams and waking, etc. No idea what spirit class. Probably a preta. Most so called "spirits" are pretas. Pretas are not just miserable beings in states of despair, there are also so-called "glorious pretas."

[Toenail]

What do you mean by glorious pretas? Those who move through space?

[Konchog Thogme Jampa]

Ayahuasca in particular can open oneself up to provocations.

Does Cannabis cause provocations?

[Malcolm]

Ayahuasca in particular can open oneself up to provocations.

Does Cannabis cause provocations?

No, not as far as I know. Some lamas might disagree.

[Malcolm]

What do you mean by glorious pretas? Those who move through space?

They are powerful, not like ordinary pathetic pretas.

[krodha]

I interacted with a mushroom spirit a few months ago, luckily she was kind and just wanted to share information. These spirits are definitely out there.

[Toenail]

What do you mean by glorious pretas? Those who move through space?

They are powerful, not like ordinary pathetic pretas.

Are they called 'glorious pretas'? What is the tibetan word for it?

[Malcolm]

What do you mean by glorious pretas? Those who move through space?

They are powerful, not like ordinary pathetic pretas.

Are they called 'glorious pretas'? What is the tibetan word for it?

Dpal ldan.

[Konchog Thogme Jampa]

They are powerful, not like ordinary pathetic pretas.

Are they called 'glorious pretas'? What is the tibetan word for it?

Dpal ldan.

Anywhere you can read about them?

I know sometimes Lama Vajranatha gives talks on this kind of subject matter.

[dharmafootsteps]

I interacted with a mushroom spirit a few months ago, luckily she was kind and just wanted to share information. These spirits are definitely out there.

What was the context? When taking mushrooms?