Not sure where to go

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by SilenceMonkey »

As many people said here and elsewhere, Buddhism is really about growing your heart. Malcolm mentioned that it's about going out and helping people.

Of course it is! The whole point of the Mahayana is helping others. There's a lot more to Buddhism than just retreat in the mountains. Most of us aren't even cut out for that lifestyle, so there are many other ways of practicing that are taught. (Will you be curious about what they are?)

It's funny. Your thinking that Buddhism is only about retreat (you're calling it "non-attachment") has completely distorted your perception of the tradition. What's even more funny is that you've probably never even experienced a short retreat and you seem hesitant to even practice a few minutes of meditation.

Anyway, your conception of "non-attachment" and how non-attachment is actually taught are completely different. Actually how you responded above on going to the movies and enjoying it in the moment, this is non-attachment. It's just confusion with the terms.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Okay, I don’t know how to say this, but I’m going to try.

Referring to your sentence in bold... The problem with grasping is not that “grasping is bad.” The issue is that grasping is what causes dukkha (often translated as “suffering”). Now let that sink in.

*** *** *** **** ***

Grasping isn’t bad. Got it?

“Good” and “bad” are just ideas added onto something by the mind. In my understanding, this “good” and “bad” duality is a moralistic judgement (that probably has roots in the judeo-Christian tradition. But origins are beside the point.) The point is that we’re not talking about morality here. We are talking about reality, how things are before they are before they are colored by thoughts and emotions. In this case, the reality I’m referring to is the fact that we have grasping and that grasping is what causes us dukkha.

Does it make sense?
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Ayu
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by Ayu »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:01 pm Okay, I don’t know how to say this, but I’m going to try.

Referring to your sentence in bold... The problem with grasping is not that “grasping is bad.” The issue is that grasping is what causes dukkha (often translated as “suffering”). Now let that sink in.

*** *** *** **** ***

Grasping isn’t bad. Got it?

“Good” and “bad” are just ideas added onto something by the mind. In my understanding, this “good” and “bad” duality is a moralistic judgement (that probably has roots in the judeo-Christian tradition. But origins are beside the point.) The point is that we’re not talking about morality here. We are talking about reality, how things are before they are before they are colored by thoughts and emotions. In this case, the reality I’m referring to is the fact that we have grasping and that grasping is what causes us dukkha.

Does it make sense?
Yes. Like: it's not a sin to touch a hot oven. It just hurts.
MagnetSoulSP
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

The trick is... can you just sit and be? If you can, then there's no problem. You're fine. There's no suffering going on. If you're bothered by something that happened or something someone said, this indicates some kind of clinging to situation that disturbs your mind. If there's something disturbing you, you'll need to find a way to let go! (And there are so many methods for doing so.)

If you can just be in the moment, without being carried off by your emotions and thoughts... this is the essence of meditation. Even if you are just present for 3 seconds, that's 3 seconds of meditation.
I can just sit and be, I've done it several times actually. The problem I have is that Buddhism makes it sound like doing anything else besides that is wrong. That I can't have friends or "a life" (to put it in a manner of speaking).

I have been present, but the present is still pretty bad. I have a bad job that doesn't pay well and haven't been hired for anything else despite searching, I can't afford to go back to school, I have $35,000 in student loans, so there is a lot in the present that doesn't offer much relief.

When I meditate in a sense I am escaping the present moment, but when I return to reality I become aware of all the burdens I have to deal with and not a lot of solutions.

As much as I enjoy meditation it hasn't really helped me in life so far, it doesn't pay bills or help me navigate the world (I'm on the spectrum), and it makes wanting to do anything seem bad.

Your reply really doesn't address my concerns about doing things in "Worldly" life, like I mentioned. Why "have fun" by going to the beach, or movies, or museums, or draw something, etc? Such things are grasping apparently, even if someday down the line you reminisce about it with friends (which is grasping too apparently).

You're saying words but not really making sense or answering the question. Of course I can just be, but I can't exactly live like that. Humans didn't survive this long by being present, otherwise they would have been eaten by far superior animals long ago.
“Good” and “bad” are just ideas added onto something by the mind. In my understanding, this “good” and “bad” duality is a moralistic judgement (that probably has roots in the judeo-Christian tradition. But origins are beside the point.) The point is that we’re not talking about morality here. We are talking about reality, how things are before they are before they are colored by thoughts and emotions. In this case, the reality I’m referring to is the fact that we have grasping and that grasping is what causes us dukkha.
This doesn't really make sense. I know that good and bad are just ideas, that's not a novel statement. But we can't live without making value judgments though, otherwise we'd die. In reality nothing is better or worse, good or bad, that's nihilism in a sense. But that doesn't really answer my question.
muni
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by muni »

I have been present, but the present is still pretty bad. I have a bad job that doesn't pay well and haven't been hired for anything else despite searching, I can't afford to go back to school, I have $35,000 in student loans, so there is a lot in the present that doesn't offer much relief.

When I meditate in a sense I am escaping the present moment, but when I return to reality I become aware of all the burdens I have to deal with and not a lot of solutions.

As much as I enjoy meditation it hasn't really helped me in life so far, it doesn't pay bills or help me navigate the world (I'm on the spectrum), and it makes wanting to do anything seem bad.
Hello,

...Of course meditation is not to just escape "the world". We learn how our mind works, how mind is grasping in daily life, what causes us suffering and how we can learn to avoid that. Guidance in meditation by awaken master is necessary support therefore.

But still then we all can experience difficulties in daily life. There is said about these that we should not become sad or frustrated, but understand that it are effects of previous karma, we have to go through till they pass. It all passes.
Meanwhile we can only put a light on our actions right now, not forgetting the welfare of all beings, not harm. Because all are experiencing difficulties. This means not you shouldn't be nice to yourself and you should enjoy nothing.

In case of any joy, share it. A smile cost nothing.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Ardha wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:16 am The problem I have is that Buddhism makes it sound like doing anything else besides that is wrong. That I can't have friends or "a life" (to put it in a manner of speaking).
It’s already been pointed out to you that this is not what Buddhism teaches.
I will ask you again, so please answer:
You are ignoring every reply that has already been offered to you so far in this forum. Why?
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
MagnetSoulSP
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:38 pm
Ardha wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:16 am The problem I have is that Buddhism makes it sound like doing anything else besides that is wrong. That I can't have friends or "a life" (to put it in a manner of speaking).
It’s already been pointed out to you that this is not what Buddhism teaches.
I will ask you again, so please answer:
You are ignoring every reply that has already been offered to you so far in this forum. Why?
I'm not ignoring every reply, I'm trying to get answers to my question which so far hasn't been answered. No one has addressed wanting to partake in such things, instead making it sound like IF you happen to be in a position where you are then enjoy it. It's what I guess can be called a very passive way to live instead of active. Nor has it been addressed as to the wanting to do these things to begin with. You say it's not what Buddhism teaches yet I don't really see or read teachers saying otherwise. Heck most praise renunciation so I'm not sure how you say Buddhism doesn't say that since they seem to think so.
Hello,

...Of course meditation is not to just escape "the world". We learn how our mind works, how mind is grasping in daily life, what causes us suffering and how we can learn to avoid that. Guidance in meditation by awaken master is necessary support therefore.

But still then we all can experience difficulties in daily life. There is said about these that we should not become sad or frustrated, but understand that it are effects of previous karma, we have to go through till they pass. It all passes.
Meanwhile we can only put a light on our actions right now, not forgetting the welfare of all beings, not harm. Because all are experiencing difficulties. This means not you shouldn't be nice to yourself and you should enjoy nothing.

In case of any joy, share it. A smile cost nothing.
It sure seems like an escape from the world since you are more or less shutting things out in a way. But eventually we have to come back to it all. I can't say meditation has shown me how the mind works, or if there is a mind. Nor does it show me what causes suffering, not in the way you think. I know what cases suffering for me, the loan I have hanging over my head and no options for solving it because I've burned them all.

I know that we all experience difficulties in life but that is just a banal fact. Everyone knows that but it doesn't change the problems one has. And not all problems pass. Some are lifelong until you die and some bring you to death. In the case of debt some live with it for the rest of their lives and it crushes them, some live in poverty and it doesn't pass because they can't afford to do anything about it. I doubt many here have had to pick between eating and keeping the power on. So to just say "it all passes" is pretty callous and ignorant.

It doesn't really offer me much solace that others suffer like me, rather functions as an inevitability more or less. Because I'm on the spectrum I'm forever bound to not be as mentally able as most people and will struggle until I die, that problem won't pass. It will impact my interviews and job prospects as I'm limited to what I can do. It's looking like I will end up in poverty once my dad passes and possibly perish. All my help has been exhausted and I don't have options left. In a sense I am like others, others who tried but couldn't make it.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Ardha wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:18 am I'm not ignoring every reply, I'm trying to get answers to my question which so far hasn't been answered.
. . .

I know what cases suffering for me, the loan I have hanging over my head and no options for solving it because I've burned them all.

I know that we all experience difficulties in life but that is just a banal fact. Everyone knows that but it doesn't change the problems one has. And not all problems pass. Some are lifelong until you die and some bring you to death. In the case of debt some live with it for the rest of their lives and it crushes them, some live in poverty and it doesn't pass because they can't afford to do anything about it. I doubt many here have had to pick between eating and keeping the power on. So to just say "it all passes" is pretty callous and ignorant.

It doesn't really offer me much solace that others suffer like me, rather functions as an inevitability more or less. Because I'm on the spectrum I'm forever bound to not be as mentally able as most people and will struggle until I die, that problem won't pass. It will impact my interviews and job prospects as I'm limited to what I can do. It's looking like I will end up in poverty once my dad passes and possibly perish. All my help has been exhausted and I don't have options left. In a sense I am like others, others who tried but couldn't make it.
Thank you for finally being able to state what the problem is. Now, perhaps, you will get answers to your questions.
EMPTIFUL.
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muni
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by muni »

Hello Ardha,

Of course the difficulties we are in does not pass, poverty does often not pass, many health problems does not pass. But even we do not experience it, all is impermanent. However even nothing is permanent, this doesn't help us when we are in the midst of struggling and suffering.

That is why all should recognize our inter-dependency. That is why we should see our selfish habits and be more open for those around us, for all without discrimination. However if we expect that kindness from people we get frustrated since often no support is offered.

There are as well kind open minded fellows, not so selfish.

You are on the spectrum you say. This is not something "bad". Do not see that as such. Often such fellows are good in things other aren't.
But whatever, you are valuable! Not be able for example to have contacts so easy, is not selfishness and should get understanding.
People do not always respect others who are slightly different from them. That comes from narrow mind. It is that narrow mind what causes problems, what discriminates.
You gave there the example of finding jobs. In some countries there are organisations who help people with these problems to find a job. Can you check if there is such by you?

There is as well goodness in the world, there is loving kindness, there is joy. All of us need that, even selfishness often blocks it.

It is that selfishness the Buddha sees as problem and for this many ways of advice are given.

Everyone deserve loving kindness and support. Listen to each other is important.

“Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive.” H H Dalai Lama.
https://lexingtonservices.com/career-pa ... th-autism/
Learning
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by Learning »

Buddhism 101 - reality is uncontrollable, impermanent, and unsatisfying.
If you try to control your emotions or thoughts, this leads to suffering. If you strive to make your mind satisfying, this leads to suffering. If you want a state of mind to be permanent, this also leads to suffering. Wanting answers and meaning leads to suffering because wanting causes suffering.
Your greatest hope for understanding the experiences that make up reality is to meditate consistently under the guidance of a competent teacher.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by SilenceMonkey »

I see... you're on the spectrum. That might explain why it's difficult to hear what we're saying to you. Let me try in simple words.
Ardha wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:16 am I can just sit and be, I've done it several times actually. The problem I have is that Buddhism makes it sound like doing anything else besides that is wrong. That I can't have friends or "a life" (to put it in a manner of speaking).

...

As much as I enjoy meditation it hasn't really helped me in life so far, it doesn't pay bills or help me navigate the world (I'm on the spectrum), and it makes wanting to do anything seem bad.

Your reply really doesn't address my concerns about doing things in "Worldly" life, like I mentioned. Why "have fun" by going to the beach, or movies, or museums, or draw something, etc? Such things are grasping apparently, even if someday down the line you reminisce about it with friends (which is grasping too apparently).
You think that Buddhism makes it sound like what you're saying, but this is actually false. It is just your own interpretation. And it is a misinterpretation.

You can do all of these worldly things, it is fine. Where does "Buddhism" say don't do these things?

If you practice meditation, you can bring that quality of meditation into everything that you do. All so-called "worldly" activities can become mindful activities. You will learn to let go of your negative thoughts and judgements, and your experience of life will be very open and free.

And the last point: Grasping isn't wrong or bad. (Try to really hear what we're saying here, instead of assuming "But Buddhism says it's bad!") No, it isn't bad. It is merely what makes us suffer.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Ardha wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:18 am
It sure seems like an escape from the world since you are more or less shutting things out in a way. But eventually we have to come back to it all.
Meditation isn't an escape from the world precisely because we come back to the world after meditating. Meditation is a temporary retreat so we can rejuvenate and go within. But once we're done, we come back with more peace and wisdom for our day.

Ardha wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:16 am
I have been present, but the present is still pretty bad. I have a bad job that doesn't pay well and haven't been hired for anything else despite searching, I can't afford to go back to school, I have $35,000 in student loans, so there is a lot in the present that doesn't offer much relief.

When I meditate in a sense I am escaping the present moment, but when I return to reality I become aware of all the burdens I have to deal with and not a lot of solutions.
Usually when we talk about the present moment in buddhism and meditation, we're talking about what it's like to be in your own experience. (eg. what is it like to just breathe... what is it like to just sit in a chair... or to feel the wind on your face...) This is what we call direct experience of the present moment.

All thoughts about the present moment, we observe and let them pass. Thoughts about the present moment do not define the present experience. They are just thoughts, passing through our minds... Any judgements are also just thoughts. We just let them pass, like all thoughts.

All commentary about the present moment (and anything) are also just thoughts. All of the things you wrote on this forum would be commentary of your mind. When commentary arises, we let it pass away... In meditation, we try not to get too carried away by all of these thoughts. We try to stay present...

The present moment we're referring to is not your situation of student loan debt. It's not your bad job. It's not how unhappy you are, or any of the reasons for your being unhappy. It's not any of your thoughts about Buddhism. It's not any of your thoughts about being on the spectrum and what that means for your life. All of this may or may not be the case... But they are not the present moment.

(They are just thoughts.)
Ardha wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:16 am I can't say meditation has shown me how the mind works, or if there is a mind. Nor does it show me what causes suffering, not in the way you think. I know what cases suffering for me, the loan I have hanging over my head and no options for solving it because I've burned them all.
From an ordinary perspective, sure, we can say this is the cause of your suffering. But Buddhism actually goes deeper than the ordinary perspective... It's in meditation that we begin to see that all of our stories about our situation is what disturbs the mind. "Stories" are just our own interpretation of things happening. Our minds unconsciously create stories about things, and then we believe the stories are true... But they are just thoughts. Because they are just thoughts, in meditation we're able to observe our minds coming up with these stories and get carried away by them. When we get lost in our stories, we're carried away from the present. When we become more skilled at meditation, we can let go of the stories themselves... and find peace in the present moment.

Letting go of our stories doesn't change the fact that you're in debt. It doesn't change the fact that you have a difficult job. Or that you are on the spectrum. What it changes is how we respond to our circumstances. It changes how we interpret our circumstances, and even how we feel about our circumstances. With practice, we can actually learn to find happiness and peace, despite the circumstances we're in. Sometimes it's easy to do so, sometimes less so...
Ardha wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:16 am
“Good” and “bad” are just ideas added onto something by the mind. In my understanding, this “good” and “bad” duality is a moralistic judgement (that probably has roots in the judeo-Christian tradition. But origins are beside the point.) The point is that we’re not talking about morality here. We are talking about reality, how things are before they are before they are colored by thoughts and emotions. In this case, the reality I’m referring to is the fact that we have grasping and that grasping is what causes us dukkha.
This doesn't really make sense. I know that good and bad are just ideas, that's not a novel statement. But we can't live without making value judgments though, otherwise we'd die.
I think that, with practice of mindfulness, you'll find that we can live without making judgements like this. Even if just for 5 mins of meditation (or thirty). We can learn to suspend these judgements and just be in the present, without all of the stress that such thoughts bring.

Millions of people around the world do this practice and they're not dead. I never thought I'd have to say this, but... Mindfulness doesn't kill you.

I think you would actually benefit from reading some of John Kabat Zinn. He wrote a good book that explains a lot of these basic concepts of what mindfulness is. It's called "Mindfulness for Beginners: Reclaiming the Present Moment - And Your Life"

If you want a video:
https://www.mindfulnesscds.com/pages/vi ... n-teaching
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Ardha wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:16 am
I can just sit and be, I've done it several times actually. The problem I have is that Buddhism makes it sound like doing anything else besides that is wrong. That I can't have friends or "a life" (to put it in a manner of speaking).

...

Your reply really doesn't address my concerns about doing things in "Worldly" life, like I mentioned. Why "have fun" by going to the beach, or movies, or museums, or draw something, etc? Such things are grasping apparently, even if someday down the line you reminisce about it with friends (which is grasping too apparently).

You're saying words but not really making sense or answering the question. Of course I can just be, but I can't exactly live like that. Humans didn't survive this long by being present, otherwise they would have been eaten by far superior animals long ago.
Ardha wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:18 am ... Nor has it been addressed as to the wanting to do these things to begin with. You say it's not what Buddhism teaches yet I don't really see or read teachers saying otherwise. Heck most praise renunciation so I'm not sure how you say Buddhism doesn't say that since they seem to think so.
I think I said this before (and probably so did others), but we're not monks. Unless you feel called to reject ordinary pleasures such as having friends, going to the beach or the movies... don't worry about it. Really. It can be good for a few people who want to live like this, but for most of us, this kind of lifestyle would be more destructive than helpful. Some people really feel called to go off into the wilderness, away from all the ordinary happinesses of life. But not us. We really don't have to be so extreme. We can actually enjoy our lives and practice Dharma at the same time. Really, we can!

Even 20 mins of meditation per day is good. Some people may find that they need more than this, so they will practice more. Some people are so hungry for meditation that they practice for 3-4 hours every day. But we do what is helpful for us in our current circumstances. It's good to be aware of our limits. If we practice too much, it can be overwhelming for us. We might even burn out. So it's better to keep it sustainable. A daily practice of 5 mins of mindfulness a day is much better than none at all!

*

Anyway... as to your question of wanting to do things. I think we just have fun for the sake of having fun. We need fun in our lives, otherwise we might die of boredom. (Not literally) Another reason we go to the beach or the movies is to blow off steam. It can help us to relax... destress... feel good... Without having any fun, we might become so wound up and anxious... so tight and constricted... so unhappy and miserable... These sorts of things are really necessary for us to feel open and free. We have fun because it makes us happy!

We are worldly beings with worldly needs. Maybe we wouldn't suffer at all if we didn't have needs. But if we pretend we don't have needs, it's sort of like pretending we don't need to eat or pretending we don't need to breathe. I'm not sure that would end well.

I mean, we probably won't die if we don't have any friends... but the deprivation of friends will make us miserable. And we don't want to be miserable, do we?
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by Ayu »

I think social contacts are a basic human need and necessity for mental health. Even monks and nuns are human beings and it is good for them to have friends.
muni
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by muni »

Buddhism is not erasing happiness but the happiness due to wanting and getting is often turning into the opposite. Therefore maybe H H Dalai Lama:

:heart:
MagnetSoulSP
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

muni wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:58 am Hello Ardha,

Of course the difficulties we are in does not pass, poverty does often not pass, many health problems does not pass. But even we do not experience it, all is impermanent. However even nothing is permanent, this doesn't help us when we are in the midst of struggling and suffering.

That is why all should recognize our inter-dependency. That is why we should see our selfish habits and be more open for those around us, for all without discrimination. However if we expect that kindness from people we get frustrated since often no support is offered.

There are as well kind open minded fellows, not so selfish.

You are on the spectrum you say. This is not something "bad". Do not see that as such. Often such fellows are good in things other aren't.
But whatever, you are valuable! Not be able for example to have contacts so easy, is not selfishness and should get understanding.
People do not always respect others who are slightly different from them. That comes from narrow mind. It is that narrow mind what causes problems, what discriminates.
You gave there the example of finding jobs. In some countries there are organisations who help people with these problems to find a job. Can you check if there is such by you?

There is as well goodness in the world, there is loving kindness, there is joy. All of us need that, even selfishness often blocks it.

It is that selfishness the Buddha sees as problem and for this many ways of advice are given.

Everyone deserve loving kindness and support. Listen to each other is important.

“Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive.” H H Dalai Lama.
https://lexingtonservices.com/career-pa ... th-autism/
being on the spectrum is something bad though, it's a literal impediment that you can't control and has a profound impact on one's life. There aren't really organizations that help them find jobs, the ones you're thinking about are usually in fast food or working for a bigbox chain, in other words jobs you literally cannot support yourself with.

And love and compassion are luxuries, things that we take for granted because of modernity.
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

From an ordinary perspective, sure, we can say this is the cause of your suffering. But Buddhism actually goes deeper than the ordinary perspective... It's in meditation that we begin to see that all of our stories about our situation is what disturbs the mind. "Stories" are just our own interpretation of things happening. Our minds unconsciously create stories about things, and then we believe the stories are true... But they are just thoughts. Because they are just thoughts, in meditation we're able to observe our minds coming up with these stories and get carried away by them. When we get lost in our stories, we're carried away from the present. When we become more skilled at meditation, we can let go of the stories themselves... and find peace in the present moment.

Letting go of our stories doesn't change the fact that you're in debt. It doesn't change the fact that you have a difficult job. Or that you are on the spectrum. What it changes is how we respond to our circumstances. It changes how we interpret our circumstances, and even how we feel about our circumstances. With practice, we can actually learn to find happiness and peace, despite the circumstances we're in. Sometimes it's easy to do so, sometimes less so...
But these aren't stories though, they're the truth. They are the present moment. They are the debt, the depression, the unhappiness, the aches of my job. This isn't a story, it's what's happening right now.

I don't think letting go changes how we interpret our circumstances because they are still there regardless.
Usually when we talk about the present moment in buddhism and meditation, we're talking about what it's like to be in your own experience. (eg. what is it like to just breathe... what is it like to just sit in a chair... or to feel the wind on your face...) This is what we call direct experience of the present moment.

All thoughts about the present moment, we observe and let them pass. Thoughts about the present moment do not define the present experience. They are just thoughts, passing through our minds... Any judgements are also just thoughts. We just let them pass, like all thoughts.
But they aren't thoughts about the present moment, they are the present moment. They are the present experience. The bad job being on your feet for over 6 hours and not having time for anything else or not having friends. None of those are stories, they are present reality. Even the depression, that is always present. It doesn't go away. There isn't peace in the present, what I described is my direct experience. It's everyday when I wake up and go to bed.
Anyway... as to your question of wanting to do things. I think we just have fun for the sake of having fun. We need fun in our lives, otherwise we might die of boredom. (Not literally) Another reason we go to the beach or the movies is to blow off steam. It can help us to relax... destress... feel good... Without having any fun, we might become so wound up and anxious... so tight and constricted... so unhappy and miserable... These sorts of things are really necessary for us to feel open and free. We have fun because it makes us happy!
I thought Buddhism said that boredom was denying reality and that by seeking entertainment or activities like that you are rejecting the present moment. Plus isn't that still just grasping and which is bad? You say grasping isn't bad, but it causes suffering so it must be bad right?

And what about desires? Much of what I read seems to be about getting rid of desires, but that's not something I can afford to do. I've always struggled in life with never being able to build anything because there was nothing I felt strongly about to stick with. NOTHING. It made school hard because I couldn't pick a degree and same with hobbies, I never stick with anything. IT's always on to the next thing and the next thing after that.

It's like if you're building a house but you don't even get the skeleton up, you draw the blueprints and then abandon it. It's been a problem because I can't really relate to people who have a hobby or something they are passionate about. It doesn't have to be something they're good at but it's something they enjoy doing like building models, gardening, things like that.

I don't have that and reading Buddhism didn't really help. I've done a bunch of things but nothing really sparks anything inside me. It just feels like I'm hollow.
narhwal90
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by narhwal90 »

Ardha wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:34 am And love and compassion are luxuries, things that we take for granted because of modernity.
I suggest you spend some time volunteering at a food pantry for instance, observe how the the poorest of the poor help one another- sometimes by nothing other than listening to another's troubles because they have nothing else to offer. Perhaps, be grateful you have a bed, and an internet connection, and an education by which you can communicate with it.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Ardha wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:50 am But these aren't stories though, they're the truth. They are the present moment. They are the debt, the depression, the unhappiness, the aches of my job. This isn't a story, it's what's happening right now.
How you experience these things, that is your story. How you experience it is the story that you create with your own mind.
I don't think letting go changes how we interpret our circumstances because they are still there regardless.
Likewise. a burning log is a burning log, whether you are holding onto it or not. But I think you would agree that holding onto it gives you pain, while letting go of it allows for the pain to stop. Debt and other problems are like burning logs. No, they won’t magically go away. The point however is do you let the problems control your own state of mind, or do you take control of your own state of mind, and in so doing, control the problems?
But they aren't thoughts about the present moment, they are the present moment. They are the present experience. The bad job being on your feet for over 6 hours and not having time for anything else or not having friends. None of those are stories, they are present reality. Even the depression, that is always present. It doesn't go away. There isn't peace in the present, what I described is my direct experience. It's everyday when I wake up and go to bed.
You are experiencing a lot of suffering. They are your present experience. But they don’t have to be your only experience. What about the other 18 hours?
I thought Buddhism said that boredom was denying reality and that by seeking entertainment or activities like that you are rejecting the present moment. Plus isn't that still just grasping and which is bad? You say grasping isn't bad, but it causes suffering so it must be bad right?
No. wanting to enjoy temporary pleasures isn’t the problem. Thinking that temporary enjoyments will bring permanent satisfaction and happiness is the problem. Also, thinking that if all those problems are resolved, like you win the million dollar lottery, that then you will be happy, that is also wrong. Happiness doesn’t flow into you from any external source. It begins in your own mind.
And what about desires? Much of what I read seems to be about getting rid of desires, but that's not something I can afford to do. I've always struggled in life with never being able to build anything because there was nothing I felt strongly about to stick with. NOTHING. It made school hard because I couldn't pick a degree and same with hobbies, I never stick with anything. IT's always on to the next thing and the next thing after that.

It's like if you're building a house but you don't even get the skeleton up, you draw the blueprints and then abandon it. It's been a problem because I can't really relate to people who have a hobby or something they are passionate about. It doesn't have to be something they're good at but it's something they enjoy doing like building models, gardening, things like that.
so, you need to dissect that and determine why that is a problem, why not being able to stick to something results in your unhappiness. And then, when you answer that, you have to keep asking. For example, I might answer, “because I want to feel as though I did something with my life!”
Okay, that would be a good answer. But then, I would ask, “why is that important to me?” And keep drilling away at that.
I don't have that and reading Buddhism didn't really help. I've done a bunch of things but nothing really sparks anything inside me. It just feels like I'm hollow.
I think it’s been suggested that perhaps you don’t have a clear understanding of what Buddhism actually teaches. The littlest thing can bring you immense joy if you let it, if you know how to look at it. A leaf turning from green to red in October is an amazing thing to experience. You don’t have to conquer the world. You just have to give yourself a little space and devote a little time, give yourself permission to just sit and breathe.

Start by enjoying little things and the big problems won’t seem so big after a while. Then you can tackle them one at a time and not feel so overwhelmed. But Buddhism doesn’t say you can’t want to be happy. All beings want to be happy. All Buddhism says is to look for the source of happiness inside yourself, and not from outside sources. If you see a leaf change from green to red and you feel happy, it’s not the leaf that caused that feeling. It’s your own mind. Your own attitude.
EMPTIFUL.
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Re: Not sure where to go

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:28 pm
Ardha wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:50 am But these aren't stories though, they're the truth. They are the present moment. They are the debt, the depression, the unhappiness, the aches of my job. This isn't a story, it's what's happening right now.
How you experience these things, that is your story. How you experience it is the story that you create with your own mind.
I don't think letting go changes how we interpret our circumstances because they are still there regardless.
Likewise. a burning log is a burning log, whether you are holding onto it or not. But I think you would agree that holding onto it gives you pain, while letting go of it allows for the pain to stop. Debt and other problems are like burning logs. No, they won’t magically go away. The point however is do you let the problems control your own state of mind, or do you take control of your own state of mind, and in so doing, control the problems?
But they aren't thoughts about the present moment, they are the present moment. They are the present experience. The bad job being on your feet for over 6 hours and not having time for anything else or not having friends. None of those are stories, they are present reality. Even the depression, that is always present. It doesn't go away. There isn't peace in the present, what I described is my direct experience. It's everyday when I wake up and go to bed.
You are experiencing a lot of suffering. They are your present experience. But they don’t have to be your only experience. What about the other 18 hours?
I thought Buddhism said that boredom was denying reality and that by seeking entertainment or activities like that you are rejecting the present moment. Plus isn't that still just grasping and which is bad? You say grasping isn't bad, but it causes suffering so it must be bad right?
No. wanting to enjoy temporary pleasures isn’t the problem. Thinking that temporary enjoyments will bring permanent satisfaction and happiness is the problem. Also, thinking that if all those problems are resolved, like you win the million dollar lottery, that then you will be happy, that is also wrong. Happiness doesn’t flow into you from any external source. It begins in your own mind.
And what about desires? Much of what I read seems to be about getting rid of desires, but that's not something I can afford to do. I've always struggled in life with never being able to build anything because there was nothing I felt strongly about to stick with. NOTHING. It made school hard because I couldn't pick a degree and same with hobbies, I never stick with anything. IT's always on to the next thing and the next thing after that.

It's like if you're building a house but you don't even get the skeleton up, you draw the blueprints and then abandon it. It's been a problem because I can't really relate to people who have a hobby or something they are passionate about. It doesn't have to be something they're good at but it's something they enjoy doing like building models, gardening, things like that.
so, you need to dissect that and determine why that is a problem, why not being able to stick to something results in your unhappiness. And then, when you answer that, you have to keep asking. For example, I might answer, “because I want to feel as though I did something with my life!”
Okay, that would be a good answer. But then, I would ask, “why is that important to me?” And keep drilling away at that.
I don't have that and reading Buddhism didn't really help. I've done a bunch of things but nothing really sparks anything inside me. It just feels like I'm hollow.
I think it’s been suggested that perhaps you don’t have a clear understanding of what Buddhism actually teaches. The littlest thing can bring you immense joy if you let it, if you know how to look at it. A leaf turning from green to red in October is an amazing thing to experience. You don’t have to conquer the world. You just have to give yourself a little space and devote a little time, give yourself permission to just sit and breathe.

Start by enjoying little things and the big problems won’t seem so big after a while. Then you can tackle them one at a time and not feel so overwhelmed. But Buddhism doesn’t say you can’t want to be happy. All beings want to be happy. All Buddhism says is to look for the source of happiness inside yourself, and not from outside sources. If you see a leaf change from green to red and you feel happy, it’s not the leaf that caused that feeling. It’s your own mind. Your own attitude.
What about the other 18 hours?
Like I mentioned, it's all day everyday. I haven't felt truly happy in ages.
so, you need to dissect that and determine why that is a problem, why not being able to stick to something results in your unhappiness. And then, when you answer that, you have to keep asking. For example, I might answer, “because I want to feel as though I did something with my life!”
Okay, that would be a good answer. But then, I would ask, “why is that important to me?” And keep drilling away at that.
It's not feeling as though you did something with your life, it's just being able to do anything. I never finish what I start or commit to anything and it's left me empty on the inside because I don't really care enough about anything. Without that it is impossible to build anything. Like I said about the house, you have to finish it if you want shelter. Other people have hobbies or things like that they commit to, or to put it another way "finding your thing" so to speak. But that never really happened to me because I never actually cared enough about anything to have that. Music? Don't have the patience to practice, same with drawing, or exercise, etc.

I have nothing to share or bond with people over being there is nothing I feel strongly about. It's all just "meh".

And why keep asking why is it important to me? That just sounds like nihilism after your drill all the way down and find that it doesn't really matter.
The littlest thing can bring you immense joy if you let it, if you know how to look at it. A leaf turning from green to red in October is an amazing thing to experience. You don’t have to conquer the world. You just have to give yourself a little space and devote a little time, give yourself permission to just sit and breathe.
But then that goes against seeing reality as it is which is empty of such constructs as beauty, so a leaf changing isn't amazing...it just is.
Start by enjoying little things and the big problems won’t seem so big after a while. Then you can tackle them one at a time and not feel so overwhelmed. But Buddhism doesn’t say you can’t want to be happy. All beings want to be happy. All Buddhism says is to look for the source of happiness inside yourself, and not from outside sources. If you see a leaf change from green to red and you feel happy, it’s not the leaf that caused that feeling. It’s your own mind. Your own attitude.
Enjoying the little things doesn't take away from the big problems for me because they are just temporary diversions. I can't just tackle them one at a time because they aren't structured like that. Again the problems people face today are way different than in Buddha's time. I can't really enjoy the little things anyway because that would be ignoring reality as it is, which is empty.

And if you see a leaf change from green to red and you feel happy it's because the leaf did that. The sight of it caused a reaction in you that made you happy. You don't control feelings so you don't really make yourself happy.

But that's getting away from the main point in that what you're suggesting is going against what Buddhism says because to see beauty is to judge things and reality is empty of judgments, so you can't enjoy the little things or anything else because those are all judgments.
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