Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

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Danny
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Danny »

Cults hide their horror in the daylight....
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Sādhaka
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Sādhaka »

Danny,

“Devotion” is of course often misunderstood. I mean that if you get a actual ‘concrete’ taste of the Nature of Mind via what your Lama(s) have shown you; great respect for them will blossom forth naturally, and this is what true devotion would actually entail.

At the same time, if you don’t get that said ‘taste’, it doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s any fault with your Lama(s).

Simultaneously, you don’t have to fabricate any contrived devotion to them, regardless as to whether or not the fault lies within them or you. Just keep receiving teachings from various Lamas like a bee, until you ‘get it’.

However even if a teacher in question is, in your evaluation not good, at least maintain a modicum of respect for them by not badmouthing them; then just move on.
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Sādhaka
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Sādhaka »

Danny wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:12 pm Cults hide their horror in the daylight....

Hidden in plain sight....

Some call it “predictive programming” or “lesser magic”.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Danny wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:54 pm Devotion to other is not the Buddha’s essential teaching.
This is an out growth of centuries of man made conceits and needs to be rejected.
Is modern Buddhism a cult?

Does it make for superstition and an enemy of reason?
Absolutely.
This is really just not correct in my opinion. Read about Buddhanussati in the Pali Canon, devotion and emulation of The Buddha has been there from the beginning. We can quibble about what "devotion" means there, and whether the later innovations are valid, and whether they mean "devotion to other" ultimately; but whether it has always existed in Buddhism is a question easily answered, and it has...it's even in the Dhammapada.
The Dhammapada wrote:
106.Though month after month for a hundred years one should offer sacrifices by the thousands, yet if only for a moment one should worship those of perfected minds that honor is indeed better than a century of sacrifice.

107.Though for a hundred years one should tend the sacrificial fire in the forest, yet if only for a mo-ment one should worship those of perfected minds, that worship is indeed better than a century of sacrifice.

108.Whatever gifts and oblations one seeking merit might offer in this world for a whole year, all that is not worth one fourth of the merit gained by re-vering the Upright Ones, which is truly excellent.

And lots more of course........
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Norwegian »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:10 pm
Danny wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:54 pm Devotion to other is not the Buddha’s essential teaching.
This is an out growth of centuries of man made conceits and needs to be rejected.
Is modern Buddhism a cult?

Does it make for superstition and an enemy of reason?
Absolutely.
This is really just not correct in my opinion. Read about Buddhanussati in the Pali Canon, devotion and emulation of The Buddha has been there from the beginning. We can quibble about what "devotion" means there, and whether the later innovations are valid, and whether they mean "devotion to other" ultimately; but whether it has always existed in Buddhism is a question easily answered, and it has...it's even in the Dhammapada.
And it is central in common Mahayana as well. A great example here is the bodhisattva Sadaprarudita. If anybody had devotion, and exemplified devotion of an intense level few can hope to ever match, it was him. Emulate just a fraction of his attitude in terms of devotion, and people will do really well on the path.
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Aemilius
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Aemilius »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:21 pm
Aemilius wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:44 amThe presents given by Santa Claus are real, so he must be real too!
or it could be said that santa is no more real than the presents he delivers.
The presents of Santa are as real as your monthly or annual salary is to You.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Giovanni
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Giovanni »

Aemilius wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:47 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:21 pm
Aemilius wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:44 amThe presents given by Santa Claus are real, so he must be real too!
or it could be said that santa is no more real than the presents he delivers.
The presents of Santa are as real as your monthly or annual salary is to You.
So will you send me your salary Aemilius? ( joking).
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Aemilius
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Aemilius »

Giovanni wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:58 am
Aemilius wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:47 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:21 pm or it could be said that santa is no more real than the presents he delivers.
The presents of Santa are as real as your monthly or annual salary is to You.
So will you send me your salary Aemilius? ( joking).
Maybe I could behave like Naropa, who threw away the gold given to him by Marpa, saying that the whole world is gold to him. Also, Zen Roshi Al Rapaport told that his teacher, -a totally unknown japanese guy-, had said that "he owns the whole world", i.e. he does not need anything from Al Rapaport. If you are as confident as that in your own worth or in your possible realization as these guys are, then you can behave like that. If you have done any hitch hiking or the like, where you are vulnerable and dependent on the car drivers' good will, you would also know how it is when you are trusting that world will help you, when you say to the world that you need some assistance from it.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
PeterC
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by PeterC »

Aemilius wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:30 pm
Giovanni wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:58 am
Aemilius wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:47 am

The presents of Santa are as real as your monthly or annual salary is to You.
So will you send me your salary Aemilius? ( joking).
Maybe I could behave like Naropa, who threw away the gold given to him by Marpa, saying that the whole world is gold to him. Also, Zen Roshi Al Rapaport told that his teacher, -a totally unknown japanese guy-, had said that "he owns the whole world", i.e. he does not need anything from Al Rapaport. If you are as confident as that in your own worth or in your possible realization as these guys are, then you can behave like that. If you have done any hitch hiking or the like, where you are vulnerable and dependent on the car drivers' good will, you would also know how it is when you are trusting that world will help you, when you say to the world that you need some assistance from it.
…but you yourself won’t, though?
Danny
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Danny »

Sādhaka wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:16 pm Danny,

“Devotion” is of course often misunderstood. I mean that if you get a actual ‘concrete’ taste of the Nature of Mind via what your Lama(s) have shown you; great respect for them will blossom forth naturally, and this is what true devotion would actually entail.

At the same time, if you don’t get that said ‘taste’, it doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s any fault with your Lama(s).

Simultaneously, you don’t have to fabricate any contrived devotion to them, regardless as to whether or not the fault lies within them or you. Just keep receiving teachings from various Lamas like a bee, until you ‘get it’.

However even if a teacher in question is, in your evaluation not good, at least maintain a modicum of respect for them by not badmouthing them; then just move on.
Sure, and generally I am lazy and at ease.
So these types of things keep rolling along, because the universe really don’t give a doo doo. And I’m cool with that.
Danny
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Danny »

Sādhaka wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:18 pm
Danny wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:12 pm Cults hide their horror in the daylight....

Hidden in plain sight....

Some call it “predictive programming” or “lesser magic”.
I just call it manipulation. So really the intent is not the best, the application is not the best and the results are not the best.
Danny
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Danny »

Dawkins guru of reason is Darwin.
When he applies his gurus teachings and knowledge, then it becomes a thing..
It’s of mediocre interest at best.
Danny
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Re: Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason - Part 1: Slaves to Superstition

Post by Danny »

I’ll add a caveat here tho.
Malthus is the underlying vibe that permeates a lot of these sciences, and they became twisted into reductionism of the spiritual empathy of humanity, of much that came later, even perfumes the nihilistic politics of the modern era.
Even convinced poets and philosophers..
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