Dune
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Dune
Echoing the recommendation for Gene Wolfe's Book of The New Sun, we have a thread on it too:
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... fe#p583137
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... fe#p583137
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
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Re: Dune
Barjavel, some good French literary sci-fi from the gent who invented the grandfather paradox: Ashes, Ashes; Future Times Three; The Ice People; The Immortals.Queequeg wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 9:11 pm Suggestions? I've always loved sci fi, but I'm not particularly motivated to seek it out. I usually will just pick up a book when I find it and blaze through it. I've read some Ursuala K. LeGuin, Hitchhikers Guide series, some other Frank Herbert stuff, some Asimov. Hit me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Barjavel
- Kim O'Hara
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Re: Dune
It's not a bad list but oddly limited.Norwegian wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 5:55 pm Friend of mine suggests the following for sci-fi/space opera:
- Peter Hamilton's The Night's Dawn trilogy
- Alastair Reynold's Revelation Space series
- Alastair Reynold's House of Suns
- Alastair Reynold's Pushing Ice
- John Scalzi's Old Man's War
- Hannu Rajaniemi's The Quantum Thief trilogy
- Liu Cixin's Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy
- Peter Watts' Blindsight
Alastair Reynolds is generally very good and everything I've read by Hannu Rajaniemi is even better.
Peter Hamilton's book are bigger on word-count than on ideas and Liu Cixin is quite strange (but perhaps we should expect that someone who grew up in Communist China would have different perspectives from westerners ).
But a list which includes Hamilton and Reynolds should also include Kim Stanley Robinson (much the same vintage and always good). And a list which includes Scalzi should include Haldeman - not that I particularly recommend either of them.
I haven't read much by Adrian Tchaikovsky but I've liked what I have come across. Jeff VanderMeer is another newish writer I like.
Others here have suggested William Gibson (always very good SF but not space opera) and Ursula Le Guin (one of my favourite authors, wonderfully insightful SF and fantasy but again not space opera as such).
Kim
Re: Dune
I just gave him a mention of the discussion here, very briefly, and while he was out buying coffee beans somewhere in Tokyo, responded on his phone with these. I am sure if I give him more details, and more time, he could add moreKim O'Hara wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:58 amIt's not a bad list but oddly limited.Norwegian wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 5:55 pm Friend of mine suggests the following for sci-fi/space opera:
- Peter Hamilton's The Night's Dawn trilogy
- Alastair Reynold's Revelation Space series
- Alastair Reynold's House of Suns
- Alastair Reynold's Pushing Ice
- John Scalzi's Old Man's War
- Hannu Rajaniemi's The Quantum Thief trilogy
- Liu Cixin's Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy
- Peter Watts' Blindsight
Alastair Reynolds is generally very good and everything I've read by Hannu Rajaniemi is even better.
Peter Hamilton's book are bigger on word-count than on ideas and Liu Cixin is quite strange (but perhaps we should expect that someone who grew up in Communist China would have different perspectives from westerners ).
But a list which includes Hamilton and Reynolds should also include Kim Stanley Robinson (much the same vintage and always good). And a list which includes Scalzi should include Haldeman - not that I particularly recommend either of them.
I haven't read much by Adrian Tchaikovsky but I've liked what I have come across. Jeff VanderMeer is another newish writer I like.
Others here have suggested William Gibson (always very good SF but not space opera) and Ursula Le Guin (one of my favourite authors, wonderfully insightful SF and fantasy but again not space opera as such).
Kim
Re: Dune
Wow! All the recommendations!
Thanks. I suppose it might be too much to ask for a priority list... LOL
Thanks. I suppose it might be too much to ask for a priority list... LOL
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Re: Dune
The fact is that a lot of SF does not age well. Most of it is poorly written drivel.
But there are standouts, like Phillip K. Dick, who seems to be the richest single source for SF movies going.
Gibson, in my opinion, is a not a terribly good writer.
Le Guin is good, but uneven. Margret Atwood, of course, is a great writer.
If we actually confined ourselves to SF books of demonstrable literary merit, I think the recommendations would shrink really fast.
But there are standouts, like Phillip K. Dick, who seems to be the richest single source for SF movies going.
Gibson, in my opinion, is a not a terribly good writer.
Le Guin is good, but uneven. Margret Atwood, of course, is a great writer.
If we actually confined ourselves to SF books of demonstrable literary merit, I think the recommendations would shrink really fast.
Re: Dune
This might be a good place to start.
http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-history/
Also, the Nebula awards in the US, and the Arthur C Clarke and BSFA awards in the UK.
http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-history/
Also, the Nebula awards in the US, and the Arthur C Clarke and BSFA awards in the UK.
Re: Dune
As a rabid, irrational fan of SF this is absolutely true.Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 4:44 pm The fact is that a lot of SF does not age well. Most of it is poorly written drivel.
But there are standouts, like Phillip K. Dick, who seems to be the richest single source for SF movies going.
Gibson, in my opinion, is a not a terribly good writer.
Le Guin is good, but uneven. Margret Atwood, of course, is a great writer.
If we actually confined ourselves to SF books of demonstrable literary merit, I think the recommendations would shrink really fast.
Effective themes and writing
Weird sex stuff
Weird regressive politics
Pick two.
Exceptions include Alistar Reynolds and Iain M. Banks. Gibson tries but gets lost up his own butt, and really can't write female characters. But again if we start judging all SF on that, the list starts to thin out a lot. Herbert actually did a pretty good job, at least with DUNE 1. Jessica begins to fade towards the end of the book, and by Children she's a pathetic shadow of herself though. But that's kind of the whole point of Dune, the worst thing is to fall into the hands of a Messiah.
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Re: Dune
Thoughts on Asimov?
I was blown away by him when I first read him. I tore through the whole 15 book shebang, and while the literary quality was certainly not always top notch, and it got a bit weird towards the end, I was fascinated by the whole thing. Every work exploring different speculative themes on humanity and civilisation, starting from what is conceivably not so far into the future, to almost 50,000 years from now.
I've always been curious to give it a re-read and see if it holds up to my memories, not sure I'll ever get through all 15 again though.
I was blown away by him when I first read him. I tore through the whole 15 book shebang, and while the literary quality was certainly not always top notch, and it got a bit weird towards the end, I was fascinated by the whole thing. Every work exploring different speculative themes on humanity and civilisation, starting from what is conceivably not so far into the future, to almost 50,000 years from now.
I've always been curious to give it a re-read and see if it holds up to my memories, not sure I'll ever get through all 15 again though.
- Caoimhghín
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Re: Dune
Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson. It's more cyberpunk than sci-fi, but I quite liked it. It's about Hero Protagonist, a nuclear pizza delivery man in a dystopian future city run by fast food conglomerates. There's a cool bit about Babylonian computers and the human mind being susceptible to computer viruses in it.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
Re: Dune
Yes, good, before Stephenson decided he was a real writer and started writing boring doorstops.Caoimhghín wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 7:39 pm Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson. It's more cyberpunk than sci-fi, but I quite liked it. It's about Hero Protagonist, a nuclear pizza delivery man in a dystopian future city run by fast food conglomerates. There's a cool bit about Babylonian computers and the human mind being susceptible to computer viruses in it.
Re: Dune
Good ideas man, 6th grade level writing.dharmafootsteps wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 7:19 pm Thoughts on Asimov?
I was blown away by him when I first read him. I tore through the whole 15 book shebang, and while the literary quality was certainly not always top notch, and it got a bit weird towards the end, I was fascinated by the whole thing. Every work exploring different speculative themes on humanity and civilisation, starting from what is conceivably not so far into the future, to almost 50,000 years from now.
I've always been curious to give it a re-read and see if it holds up to my memories, not sure I'll ever get through all 15 again though.
- Caoimhghín
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Re: Dune
Did you not like the Baroque Cycle?Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 7:49 pmYes, good, before Stephenson decided he was a real writer and started writing boring doorstops.Caoimhghín wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 7:39 pm Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson. It's more cyberpunk than sci-fi, but I quite liked it. It's about Hero Protagonist, a nuclear pizza delivery man in a dystopian future city run by fast food conglomerates. There's a cool bit about Babylonian computers and the human mind being susceptible to computer viruses in it.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
Re: Dune
I found it really self-indulgent and turgid.Caoimhghín wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 8:06 pmDid you not like the Baroque Cycle?Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 7:49 pmYes, good, before Stephenson decided he was a real writer and started writing boring doorstops.Caoimhghín wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 7:39 pm Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson. It's more cyberpunk than sci-fi, but I quite liked it. It's about Hero Protagonist, a nuclear pizza delivery man in a dystopian future city run by fast food conglomerates. There's a cool bit about Babylonian computers and the human mind being susceptible to computer viruses in it.
- Kim O'Hara
- Former staff member
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Re: Dune
True. Everyone is looking for different things when they pick up a book. Pure escapism is a pretty common motive for reading space opera but I think most of us here want a bit more from our reading.
One of the things I want myself is relevance to our here-and-now world, either through well-written characters (human nature being pretty much the same in all times and places) or through extrapolations of current trends. Space opera doesn't do either of them particularly well, which means I avoid the generic doorstops and prefer near-future SF such as Gibson (try The Peripheral and you will see what I mean) or Bacigalupi (The Water Knife).
Also, books written fifty years ago don't do very well at extrapolating current trends because some of their possible futures have already been closed off by events or by new science.
Kim
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Re: Dune
Heinlein, though, was also famously kind and generous to Dick--who was virtually Heinlein's opposite in politics and temperament--when he was down and out. Heinlein also became later in life what we'd now probably call a libertarian: thought generally that the government should let people do what they wanted, so long as it didn't hurt anyone else (and some of his later novels were almost uncomfortably into free love). I say this not to excuse his beliefs--he has an early story that is heartily pro-eugenics--but to say that his politics were complicated.
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Re: Dune
In addition to some of the other recommendations:
-Stanislaw Lem is one of my favorite authors, not just of sci-fi, but period. I cannot recommend him highly enough. EDIT: Start with the "Pirx the Pilot" stories ("Pirx the Pilot" and "More Tales of Pirx the Pilot"). They're not as heavy as some of Lem's "major" works like "Eden" or "Solaris", but they're great.
-Octavia Butler is uneven, but some of her novels are excellent, and she's always at least interesting. EDIT: Start with "Parable of the Sower."
-Alfred Bester was an "early" sci-fi author whose books--particularly "The Demolished Man" and "The Stars My Destination"--hold up much, much better than many of his contemporaries. EDIT: Start with "The Stars My Destination."
-John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" is almost shockingly prescient about many aspects of modern life
-Fritz Lieber is most famous for the "Fahfrd and the Grey Mouser" books, but those are kinda bad. Don't read them! Instead, read his short novel "Gather, Darkness!", which is wonderful.
-Walter Miller, Jr. only published one book during his life: "A Canticle for Liebowitz." It is, to my mind, one of the best American sci-fi novels ever written. A sequel, "Saint Liebowitz and the Wild Horse Women," was completed after his death from a draft manuscript that he left, and is also quite good.
-Connie Willis' time travel novels--especially "The Doomsday Book"--are a hell of a lot of fun.
-If you like cyberpunk, check out George Alec Effinger, whose "Marid Audran" novels are, IMO, infinitely more interesting than your Gibsons and your Sterlings. EDIT: the first novel in the series is titled "When Gravity Fails."
-Stanislaw Lem is one of my favorite authors, not just of sci-fi, but period. I cannot recommend him highly enough. EDIT: Start with the "Pirx the Pilot" stories ("Pirx the Pilot" and "More Tales of Pirx the Pilot"). They're not as heavy as some of Lem's "major" works like "Eden" or "Solaris", but they're great.
-Octavia Butler is uneven, but some of her novels are excellent, and she's always at least interesting. EDIT: Start with "Parable of the Sower."
-Alfred Bester was an "early" sci-fi author whose books--particularly "The Demolished Man" and "The Stars My Destination"--hold up much, much better than many of his contemporaries. EDIT: Start with "The Stars My Destination."
-John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" is almost shockingly prescient about many aspects of modern life
-Fritz Lieber is most famous for the "Fahfrd and the Grey Mouser" books, but those are kinda bad. Don't read them! Instead, read his short novel "Gather, Darkness!", which is wonderful.
-Walter Miller, Jr. only published one book during his life: "A Canticle for Liebowitz." It is, to my mind, one of the best American sci-fi novels ever written. A sequel, "Saint Liebowitz and the Wild Horse Women," was completed after his death from a draft manuscript that he left, and is also quite good.
-Connie Willis' time travel novels--especially "The Doomsday Book"--are a hell of a lot of fun.
-If you like cyberpunk, check out George Alec Effinger, whose "Marid Audran" novels are, IMO, infinitely more interesting than your Gibsons and your Sterlings. EDIT: the first novel in the series is titled "When Gravity Fails."
Re: Dune
The Expanse is available several ways:
Alternatively, A Prime membership, currently $12.99/month, to view all five seasons would be cheaper.
https://www.amazon.com/amazonprime
Can't personally vouch for the literary version (90% five stars on amazon, 4.+ on Goodreads), but the Prime series was great (imdb 8.5/10).
Alternatively, A Prime membership, currently $12.99/month, to view all five seasons would be cheaper.
https://www.amazon.com/amazonprime
Can't personally vouch for the literary version (90% five stars on amazon, 4.+ on Goodreads), but the Prime series was great (imdb 8.5/10).
- Kim O'Hara
- Former staff member
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Re: Dune
A good list but I have to comment on ...
If you want escapism, the sword-and-sorcery sub-genre can be great fun, and Leiber's Lankhmar books are as good as any - better than most, actually, because they don't take themselves too seriously. Zelazny's Amber series is also great fun, and so is Heinlein's Glory Road which is not typical Heinlein at all.... Fritz Lieber is most famous for the "Fahfrd and the Grey Mouser" books, but those are kinda bad. Don't read them! Instead, read his short novel "Gather, Darkness!", which is wonderful. ...
Since I mentioned Zelazny - everyone here really, really, should read his Lord of Light for its reworking of Indian religious traditions. It's a good story, too.
Kim