More UFOs

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
DharmaJunior
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Re: More UFOs

Post by DharmaJunior »

Is it a wave.. or a particle? :thinking:

also..

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Aemilius
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Re: More UFOs

Post by Aemilius »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:54 pm My understanding is that what defines a being as animal, human, preta, etc. is what they experience (or project from the mind, if that’s the case) rather than any physical attributes per se. Even as pretas (hungry ghosts) are described as having tiny necks and other physical attributes, that ultimately this is still referring to what they experience themselves, sort of like how a person who has anorexia sees themself. It is literally their reality.
How do feel when reading this sutra, where Buddha describes our infinite rebirths? How do you see and imagine it?

The Blessed One said, "From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. What do you think, monks? Which is greater, the blood you have shed from having your heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, or the water in the four great oceans?"

"As we understand the Dhamma taught to us by the Blessed One, this is the greater: the blood we have shed from having our heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, not the water in the four great oceans."

"Excellent, monks. Excellent. It is excellent that you thus understand the Dhamma taught by me.

"This is the greater: the blood you have shed from having your heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, not the water in the four great oceans.

"The blood you have shed when, being cows, you had your cow-heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.

"The blood you have shed when, being water buffaloes, you had your water buffalo-heads cut off... when, being rams, you had your ram-heads cut off... when, being goats, you had your goat-heads cut off... when, being deer, you had your deer-heads cut off... when, being chickens, you had your chicken-heads cut off... when, being pigs, you had your pig-heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.

"The blood you have shed when, arrested as thieves plundering villages, you had your heads cut off... when, arrested as highway thieves, you had your heads cut off... when, arrested as adulterers, you had your heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.

"Why is that? From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabrications, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released."

Timsa Sutta: Thirty
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Another sutra with a similar theme Assu Sutta: Tears
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: More UFOs

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Aemilius wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:40 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:54 pm My understanding is that what defines a being as animal, human, preta, etc. is what they experience (or project from the mind, if that’s the case) rather than any physical attributes per se. Even as pretas (hungry ghosts) are described as having tiny necks and other physical attributes, that ultimately this is still referring to what they experience themselves, sort of like how a person who has anorexia sees themself. It is literally their reality.
How do feel when reading this sutra, where Buddha describes our infinite rebirths? How do you see and imagine it?

The Blessed One said, "From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. What do you think, monks? Which is greater, the blood you have shed from having your heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, or the water in the four great oceans?"

"As we understand the Dhamma taught to us by the Blessed One, this is the greater: the blood we have shed from having our heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, not the water in the four great oceans."

"Excellent, monks. Excellent. It is excellent that you thus understand the Dhamma taught by me.

"This is the greater: the blood you have shed from having your heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, not the water in the four great oceans.

"The blood you have shed when, being cows, you had your cow-heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.

"The blood you have shed when, being water buffaloes, you had your water buffalo-heads cut off... when, being rams, you had your ram-heads cut off... when, being goats, you had your goat-heads cut off... when, being deer, you had your deer-heads cut off... when, being chickens, you had your chicken-heads cut off... when, being pigs, you had your pig-heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.

"The blood you have shed when, arrested as thieves plundering villages, you had your heads cut off... when, arrested as highway thieves, you had your heads cut off... when, arrested as adulterers, you had your heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.

"Why is that? From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabrications, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released."

Timsa Sutta: Thirty
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Another sutra with a similar theme Assu Sutta: Tears
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

I think, taking rebirth is like having a cigarette addiction. Beings crave life after life just as a smoker eventually wants another cigarette when this one is done. Another smoke will bring some satisfaction (...or so it seems. But of course, the craving is still there and the person gets cancer instead). It’s that craving that the Buddha focused on, and the practice of how to break that addiction.

What do I feel when I read this teaching? I feel a sense of urgency to practice. I think, the point being made (one of the points, anyhow) which is the point of many sutras, is that we’ve all done all this before, over and over. You’ve been a cow and a dog, a king, queen, you’ve been a Buddhist monk or nun already before, in a previous life. And where did it get you? We are all still here, still craving stuff. I had a dharma friend who told me he asked our teacher what it was he had been in his last life, and could the teacher see that and so on. And the teacher said ‘probably a monastic of some sort, but so what? Knowing won’t help you now!’

The good news is that very likely we did have a connection to the teachings previously which is the cause for why we are attracted to them in this life. It’s why, when you or I discovered Buddhism, something seemed to click into place. Even if the cultural aspects of a tradition were all new, still there is a sense of ‘returning’ to the path. Even a Buddhist web forum. Of all the millions of places to be on the Internet, here we are.

And I interpret that to mean that people who are practicing now, or who want to practice (which is really very few people in this world, only a few millions) are not too far from realization. “Maybe only a couple more lifetimes to go” you might say. But that’s just an expression. Only a Buddha would know that. And of course, actions alter the course continuously.

The whole thing about the head getting cut off infinite times doesn’t specifically upset me. What’s done is done. But it motivates me to put a bit more dedication into my practice.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Queequeg
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Re: More UFOs

Post by Queequeg »

One of my favorite alien movies...

"Human"

There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
KristenM
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Re: More UFOs

Post by KristenM »

Queequeg wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 1:43 pm One of my favorite alien movies...

"Human"

Haven’t seen that movie in a while, but I seem to recall that they studied Sanskrit to decipher the aliens language. It’s always Sanskrit... ;)

The latest report out from the Navy accounts that there were 14 UFO’s surrounding them at one point and they even sent a submarine to look for wreckage where one of them went into the ocean, but found nothing.
GDPR_Anonymized001
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Re: More UFOs

Post by GDPR_Anonymized001 »

TharpaChodron wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 5:28 pm Haven’t seen that movie in a while, but I seem to recall that they studied Sanskrit to decipher the aliens language. It’s always Sanskrit... ;)
In Hubbard's Battlefield Earth it's Pali :) (The book, not the terrible movie)
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Queequeg
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Re: More UFOs

Post by Queequeg »

TharpaChodron wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 5:28 pm Haven’t seen that movie in a while, but I seem to recall that they studied Sanskrit to decipher the aliens language. It’s always Sanskrit... ;)
The language of the aliens in the movie is fascinating, conceptually. The fourth dimension is baked into it.

I have to think that the passing resemblance of the aliens to Kurt Vonnegut's Tralfamadorians is more than just coincidence.
The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral. All moments, past, present and future, always have existed, always will exist. The Tralfamadorians can look at all the different moments just that way we can look at a stretch of the Rocky Mountains, for instance. They can see how permanent all the moments are, and they can look at any moment that interests them. It is just an illusion we have here on Earth that one moment follows another one, like beads on a string, and that once a moment is gone it is gone forever.
When a Tralfamadorian sees a corpse, all he thinks is that the dead person is in a bad condition in that particular moment, but that the same person is just fine in plenty of other moments. Now, when I myself hear that somebody is dead, I simply shrug and say what the Tralfamadorians say about dead people, which is "so it goes.”
-Slaughterhouse 5

Image

That concept of time, though, is incompatible with madhyamaka. However, I believe buddhas are capable of seeing through time that way.

Puzzle that.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Aemilius
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Re: More UFOs

Post by Aemilius »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 12:20 pm
Aemilius wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:40 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:54 pm My understanding is that what defines a being as animal, human, preta, etc. is what they experience (or project from the mind, if that’s the case) rather than any physical attributes per se. Even as pretas (hungry ghosts) are described as having tiny necks and other physical attributes, that ultimately this is still referring to what they experience themselves, sort of like how a person who has anorexia sees themself. It is literally their reality.
How do feel when reading this sutra, where Buddha describes our infinite rebirths? How do you see and imagine it?

The Blessed One said, "From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. What do you think, monks? Which is greater, the blood you have shed from having your heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, or the water in the four great oceans?"

"As we understand the Dhamma taught to us by the Blessed One, this is the greater: the blood we have shed from having our heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, not the water in the four great oceans."

"Excellent, monks. Excellent. It is excellent that you thus understand the Dhamma taught by me.

"This is the greater: the blood you have shed from having your heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, not the water in the four great oceans.

"The blood you have shed when, being cows, you had your cow-heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.

"The blood you have shed when, being water buffaloes, you had your water buffalo-heads cut off... when, being rams, you had your ram-heads cut off... when, being goats, you had your goat-heads cut off... when, being deer, you had your deer-heads cut off... when, being chickens, you had your chicken-heads cut off... when, being pigs, you had your pig-heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.

"The blood you have shed when, arrested as thieves plundering villages, you had your heads cut off... when, arrested as highway thieves, you had your heads cut off... when, arrested as adulterers, you had your heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.

"Why is that? From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabrications, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released."

Timsa Sutta: Thirty
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Another sutra with a similar theme Assu Sutta: Tears
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

I think, taking rebirth is like having a cigarette addiction. Beings crave life after life just as a smoker eventually wants another cigarette when this one is done. Another smoke will bring some satisfaction (...or so it seems. But of course, the craving is still there and the person gets cancer instead). It’s that craving that the Buddha focused on, and the practice of how to break that addiction.

What do I feel when I read this teaching? I feel a sense of urgency to practice. I think, the point being made (one of the points, anyhow) which is the point of many sutras, is that we’ve all done all this before, over and over. You’ve been a cow and a dog, a king, queen, you’ve been a Buddhist monk or nun already before, in a previous life. And where did it get you? We are all still here, still craving stuff. I had a dharma friend who told me he asked our teacher what it was he had been in his last life, and could the teacher see that and so on. And the teacher said ‘probably a monastic of some sort, but so what? Knowing won’t help you now!’

The good news is that very likely we did have a connection to the teachings previously which is the cause for why we are attracted to them in this life. It’s why, when you or I discovered Buddhism, something seemed to click into place. Even if the cultural aspects of a tradition were all new, still there is a sense of ‘returning’ to the path. Even a Buddhist web forum. Of all the millions of places to be on the Internet, here we are.

And I interpret that to mean that people who are practicing now, or who want to practice (which is really very few people in this world, only a few millions) are not too far from realization. “Maybe only a couple more lifetimes to go” you might say. But that’s just an expression. Only a Buddha would know that. And of course, actions alter the course continuously.

The whole thing about the head getting cut off infinite times doesn’t specifically upset me. What’s done is done. But it motivates me to put a bit more dedication into my practice.
What I meant is how do you visualize your 100 000 rebirths, do you get any kind of picture of it? It is easy to understand one, two or three previous lives, but how do you see yourself at the time periods of the dinosaurs, mammoths etc for example? Rebirth here is much more profound.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: More UFOs

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Aemilius wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 8:34 amWhat I meant is how do you visualize your 100 000 rebirths, do you get any kind of picture of it? It is easy to understand one, two or three previous lives, but how do you see yourself at the time periods of the dinosaurs, mammoths etc for example? Rebirth here is much more profound.
It wasn’t “me” then.
There is no actual “me” that is reborn.
That is the Brahmin concept of atma or soul.
‘Rebirth’ is kind of a misleading term, but Buddhists often use it precisely to distinguish from the Brahmin concept, ‘reincarnation’.
A better word might be ‘reproduction’.

What occurs from lifetime to lifetime is a series of conditions that give rise to a similar set of conditions. Just as the experience one has of ‘oneself’ what defines that, at this moment, is almost but not completely identical to what that experience of ‘oneself’ was 3 minutes ago, is not because there is any continuous essential self, but because the same conditions that produced the experience one had 3 minutes ago are still active. You can say “I am the same person I was 3 minutes ago” ...but are you really? Who is that? What defines that? Are you really the same person now as you were when you were two years old? If yes, then, in what way is that the case? Over time, who you were when you were two years old, eventually led to who you were when you were three, four and all the way up to this very second. Really, a series of reproductions that gradually change over time.

Lifetime to lifetime works exactly the same way. A series of reproductions that retain certain qualities but perhaps also very different qualities. If you are never satisfied with anything, nothing is ever good enough for you, then perhaps you are creating conditions to be reborn as a hungry ghost. That picky quality would be retained even though you wouldn’t necessarily have a human form.

Unless one makes an effort to change things, then who a person is in this lifetime very much reflects who or what they were in a previous lifetime. Likewise, one’s actions can alter the reproduction in future lifetimes.

But also keep in mind, when we talk about greed or generosity or other concepts like that, we are describing in human terms, ascribing human qualities to things which themselves are simply events which have no intrinsic characteristics. They are empty. It’s like when we say on a nice day that the Sun is smiling down on us. It’s not really smiling, it’s just solar radiation warming us up.
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Aemilius
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Re: More UFOs

Post by Aemilius »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 12:04 pm
Aemilius wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 8:34 amWhat I meant is how do you visualize your 100 000 rebirths, do you get any kind of picture of it? It is easy to understand one, two or three previous lives, but how do you see yourself at the time periods of the dinosaurs, mammoths etc for example? Rebirth here is much more profound.
It wasn’t “me” then.
There is no actual “me” that is reborn.
That is the Brahmin concept of atma or soul.
‘Rebirth’ is kind of a misleading term, but Buddhists often use it precisely to distinguish from the Brahmin concept, ‘reincarnation’.
A better word might be ‘reproduction’.

What occurs from lifetime to lifetime is a series of conditions that give rise to a similar set of conditions. Just as the experience one has of ‘oneself’ what defines that, at this moment, is almost but not completely identical to what that experience of ‘oneself’ was 3 minutes ago, is not because there is any continuous essential self, but because the same conditions that produced the experience one had 3 minutes ago are still active. You can say “I am the same person I was 3 minutes ago” ...but are you really? Who is that? What defines that? Are you really the same person now as you were when you were two years old? If yes, then, in what way is that the case? Over time, who you were when you were two years old, eventually led to who you were when you were three, four and all the way up to this very second. Really, a series of reproductions that gradually change over time.

Lifetime to lifetime works exactly the same way. A series of reproductions that retain certain qualities but perhaps also very different qualities. If you are never satisfied with anything, nothing is ever good enough for you, then perhaps you are creating conditions to be reborn as a hungry ghost. That picky quality would be retained even though you wouldn’t necessarily have a human form.

Unless one makes an effort to change things, then who a person is in this lifetime very much reflects who or what they were in a previous lifetime. Likewise, one’s actions can alter the reproduction in future lifetimes.

But also keep in mind, when we talk about greed or generosity or other concepts like that, we are describing in human terms, ascribing human qualities to things which themselves are simply events which have no intrinsic characteristics. They are empty. It’s like when we say on a nice day that the Sun is smiling down on us. It’s not really smiling, it’s just solar radiation warming us up.
That is good as far as it goes. On the other hand Buddha identifies the persons in Jatakas or birth stories, i.e. he tells who these persons are now in this present life. Same is true with regard the birth stories embedded in the Mahayana sutras.
Recollecting or seeing one's past lives can be a useful or beneficial experience, as is indicated by the Timsa sutta and Assu sutta, referred to earlier.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Re: More UFOs

Post by Danny »

The past is termed “classical” that it had a outcome that is known, the future is only a unknown path of probabilities.
The past is irreversible, it happened, yet is gone. The future hasn’t happened, but is reversible only by present actions. So between the irreversible classical past and the reversible probable future , we are in a gray zone, where the present collapses into just conscious awareness.
UFOs - (probably) fall into that gray zone. (Definitely)
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: More UFOs

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Aemilius wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:23 pm On the other hand Buddha identifies the persons in Jatakas or birth stories, i.e. he tells who these persons are now in this present life. Same is true with regard the birth stories embedded in the Mahayana sutras.
Recollecting or seeing one's past lives can be a useful or beneficial experience, as is indicated by the Timsa sutta and Assu sutta, referred to earlier.
Yes but seeing as how anatta or ‘no self’ is pivotal to Buddhist theory, then Jatakas and other references have to be understood within that context.

If the Buddha says ‘this was myself in a previous life’ while at the same time maintaining that nothing can be found that is a ‘self’ then we have to regard that as meaning a previous collection of aggregates.
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Re: More UFOs

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:47 pm
Aemilius wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:23 pm On the other hand Buddha identifies the persons in Jatakas or birth stories, i.e. he tells who these persons are now in this present life. Same is true with regard the birth stories embedded in the Mahayana sutras.
Recollecting or seeing one's past lives can be a useful or beneficial experience, as is indicated by the Timsa sutta and Assu sutta, referred to earlier.
Yes but seeing as how anatta or ‘no self’ is pivotal to Buddhist theory, then Jatakas and other references have to be understood within that context.

If the Buddha says ‘this was myself in a previous life’ while at the same time maintaining that nothing can be found that is a ‘self’ then we have to regard that as meaning a previous collection of aggregates.
...when he threw himself off a cliff to feed five hungry tiger cubs, he didn’t throw any “self” off the cliff, nor did the tiger cubs eat anything that could be called his “self”.
EMPTIFUL.
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Minobu
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Re: More UFOs

Post by Minobu »

Könchok Chödrak wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 3:52 am Take it from the Dalai Lama on how we should treat aliens or visitors from other planets, in this short two minute video:



:alien:

:heart:

Om Mani Padme Hum.
i like this piece for it covers not just aliens but the problems on our planet with inter acting with one another...

like whats happening in america and this coming of age between black people and white people.

which is really absurd for we all have 87%DNA from africa..7% from like neanderthals and other humanoids who did not make it...
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Re: More UFOs

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »


...when he threw himself off a cliff to feed five hungry tiger cubs, he didn’t throw any “self” off the cliff, nor did the tiger cubs eat anything that could be called his “self”.

All I know is that when I swing a hammer and hit my thumb instead of the nail, I hurt. I hurt so much that I want to make sure I don’t do that to myself again. I don’t care at all about which, what, or who that “self” is. (So I go get some screws and a screw gun.)

What I meant is how do you visualize your 100 000 rebirths, do you get any kind of picture of it? It is easy to understand one, two or three previous lives, but how do you see yourself at the time periods of the dinosaurs, mammoths etc for example? Rebirth here is much more profound.
It’s there in the sutra. Your blood that was from those lives is equal the the oceans. So visualize a large body of water and think it to be your blood from previous violent deaths. And if it’s true you’re had infinite previous lives that’s actually pretty accurate.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: More UFOs

Post by Aemilius »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:51 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:47 pm
Aemilius wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:23 pm On the other hand Buddha identifies the persons in Jatakas or birth stories, i.e. he tells who these persons are now in this present life. Same is true with regard the birth stories embedded in the Mahayana sutras.
Recollecting or seeing one's past lives can be a useful or beneficial experience, as is indicated by the Timsa sutta and Assu sutta, referred to earlier.
Yes but seeing as how anatta or ‘no self’ is pivotal to Buddhist theory, then Jatakas and other references have to be understood within that context.

If the Buddha says ‘this was myself in a previous life’ while at the same time maintaining that nothing can be found that is a ‘self’ then we have to regard that as meaning a previous collection of aggregates.
...when he threw himself off a cliff to feed five hungry tiger cubs, he didn’t throw any “self” off the cliff, nor did the tiger cubs eat anything that could be called his “self”.
No, but in His mind there was the mental event of offering the body (for hungry tiger cubs). And at a later moment in another life, he identified himself with this previous momentary mind-body composition, and the idea arose "I was that person in a previous life". This is true even when he is a Buddha. Also, His conventional 'self' was not something other than the body thrown from the cliff. In this sense the tiger cubs did indeed devour parts of his conventional 'self', or they devoured parts of the basis on which a 'self' was projected in a previous life.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: More UFOs

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 4:57 am All I know is that when I swing a hammer and hit my thumb instead of the nail, I hurt. I hurt so much that I want to make sure I don’t do that to myself again. I don’t care at all about which, what, or who that “self” is.
Nobody denies that the experience of “self” occurs. In fact, that experience is exactly what the Buddha spent years addressing and explaining as the illusion beings hold onto which, as you say, is the experience of suffering according to conditions, such as hitting one’s thumb with a hammer.

The body relies on such sensations, and those sensations in turn create that “self” experience.
Because of that, people typically think that first there is a truly existent’self’ and that secondly, after that, this truly existent ‘self’ experiences things.

What the Buddha pointed out was that this apparent sequence is actually backwards, reversed. Whatever pain or pleasure is experienced is an object of awareness. Pain and pleasure are what is observed, felt, experienced.

But since such objects (experiences) arise and fall, because they are only temporarily, they cannot be regarded as constituting a truly existent ‘self’ because such a ‘self’ wouldn’t occur only temporarily but would be constant (if it arises and falls, it isn’t truly existent).

If a truly existent self was derived from the experience of hitting a thumb with a hammer, that pain would be constant, because the self would be a constant.
If a truly existent self is not derived from the experience of hitting a thumb with a hammer (and thus, any sensory experience) then in that case you cannot point to such experiences as proof of a ‘self’.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Malcolm
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Re: More UFOs

Post by Malcolm »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 1:19 pm If a truly existent self was derived from the experience
"Self" is just an abstraction, a universal. In Buddhism, only particulars are granted any amount of validity, and even that is contested.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: More UFOs

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Malcolm wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 1:22 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 1:19 pm If a truly existent self was derived from the experience
"Self" is just an abstraction, a universal. In Buddhism, only particulars are granted any amount of validity, and even that is contested.
It certainly is!
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: More UFOs

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 2:04 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 1:22 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 1:19 pm If a truly existent self was derived from the experience
"Self" is just an abstraction, a universal. In Buddhism, only particulars are granted any amount of validity, and even that is contested.
It certainly is!
However, all this talk about a self isn’t about UFOs but are replies to this question:
Aemilius wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 8:34 amhow do you visualize your 100 000 rebirths, do you get any kind of picture of it? It is easy to understand one, two or three previous lives, but how do you see yourself at the time periods of the dinosaurs, mammoths etc for example?
...and my point is that it’s not as though there is any specific being, as though 60,000 years ago I was dressed like Fred Flintstone and today I’m wearing blue jeans but somehow I’m the same person, just with a different name and wardrobe.

At the same time, the Buddha refers to awareness as unchanging. If you get a puppy when you are a twelve years old, and the dog lives for ten years and gets older, even though you are an adult, your awareness of the dog didn’t get older, but is the same awareness as when you were twelve.

Vedantaists would say that awareness is a self. Buddhism says that it’s awareness, but it’s not a “self” meaning ‘atma’ or a personality that is reborn. It’s merely awareness and then you have the various conditions and events that awareness comes into contact with, and that contact manifests as experience, and that experience is interpreted as ‘self’.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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