Lost, Star Wars, Quality of TV/Movies (split from Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement)

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Supramundane
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Lost, Star Wars, Quality of TV/Movies (split from Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement)

Post by Supramundane »


This topic was split from here: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=36393

- Hazel


Since we are talking about New Age schlock, how can we avoid mentioning the show Lost. I member of catching it on HBO and I only saw --- in the beginning --- three or four episodes after which I was convinced (initially) that this was the most incredible show I had ever seen. I loved the use of flashbacks, the actors, cinematography, and the enigma of the island. The mystery of the island had me on tenterhooks. The personalities of the people were truly gripping and kept me enthralled.

However, as the episodes piled up, none of the mysteries were ever solved. It was as if every episode ended on a a cliffhanger. Now you just can't do that! If you want to end with a cliffhanger, eventually you must freaking tie up the loose threads or resolve the cliffhanger. They never did. They just kept doubling down by adding on more and more mysteries and more and more cliffhangers.

In the end, after watching 15 or 16 episodes, I realized it was totally random and not going anywhere. There's no way any human being could give any coherent explanation of what was happening and tie up all the loose ends. To my horror, the final episode (which I never watched btw but only saw a commentary of on YouTube), only finished with some bizarre New Age explanation, saying "we are all connected" (cue the kumbaya music someone). What the heck sort of explanation was that?

--- The island can be a dimension to another realm, it could be a UFO testing base, it can be a government project, it can be man-made, it can be a window to a parallel reality, it may be a time machine, it can be the battleground between God and Satan, it can be some sort of anomaly, but how can it be all those things at the same time??!?!!?!

That is just pure sloppy writing. And the way they mopped everything up is by concluding with some sort of sappy schlocky schtick at the end virtually with a huge group hug saying: "well, the explanation is that we're all connected". What the heck !?!?!

Judging by other forums, it's not wise to bring this up. Some people are divided on this in a manner that could only be compared to Yin vs. Yang, or Golan Heights Israel versus Syria, or Turkey versus Greece in Cyprus, etc, but I'm taking the chance. You know why I'll take the chance? Because if anyone can correct me and tell me that there was some sort of meaning to that show outside of some New Age snake oil, I would be very delighted to take back my words.

I couldn't help myself bringing up this show. Lost somehow sums up the whole New Age thing: Some sort of feeling of spirituality but with no coherent framework. Just some vacuous 'walking into the light' kitsch.

As a famous Lama once said, "I would tell you what i hate about cliffhangers, but... "
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Supramundane
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by Supramundane »

Yes, there is some truth in what you are saying. I remember watching the so-called History Channel with my kids and being somewhat let down that the whole thing was about UFOs, Bigfoot, and other Supernatural topics that actually had little to do with history or science.

There was one show in particular that we used to watch called Fact or Faked and another one, the title of which eludes me but was in a similar vein. In the latter, they traveled around the world to see places like Easter Island, Stonehenge Etc. And you know what? Actually, it wasn't all that bad because even though it was all sort of hokey pseudoscience and fake 'riddles', it does get people into science, history and geography by presenting them in such a popular way.

I guess it is sort of like a gateway to real study. And that's not a bad thing, as you pointed out.
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by PeterC »

Supramundane wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 12:28 pm
I couldn't help myself bringing up this show. Lost somehow sums up the whole New Age thing: Some sort of feeling of spirituality but with no coherent framework. Just some vacuous 'walking into the light' kitsch.
It was a prime example of the show that was commissioned for a season, but a couple of seasons in they realized that they really didn’t know where they were going with it. A bit like Prison Break.

So few shows actually know when to stop. The Wire nailed that perfectly. But most come to the choice of going out on a high or churning out another season of a profitable show, and reliably pick the $$$.
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by Malcolm »

PeterC wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:41 pm
So few shows actually know when to stop.
They are getting better, actually. Limited series are quite frequent now.
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by Supramundane »

PeterC wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:41 pm
Supramundane wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 12:28 pm
I couldn't help myself bringing up this show. Lost somehow sums up the whole New Age thing: Some sort of feeling of spirituality but with no coherent framework. Just some vacuous 'walking into the light' kitsch.
It was a prime example of the show that was commissioned for a season, but a couple of seasons in they realized that they really didn’t know where they were going with it. A bit like Prison Break.

So few shows actually know when to stop. The Wire nailed that perfectly. But most come to the choice of going out on a high or churning out another season of a profitable show, and reliably pick the $$$.
You bring up a good point, PeterC, with the Wire because it was one of the best things on TV ever. But one of the secrets to its success, one of many, was that every season was self-contained; one season dealt with the war on drugs from an economic point of view; another one from a sociological point of view; another one from a political point of view, and so on.

Meanwhile, Lost never attempted any sort of continuity whatsoever; now that I think of it, it lived up to its name perfectly! It's as if the writers all took LSD, wrote down the wackiest ideas they could think of and threw them into a hat, then chose them randomly to come up with that week's plot.

As it went on, it was more and more of a chaotic mess with characters being killed off for no apparent reason. I remember the episode when they found the hatch, and I was absolutely riveted. This surely would explain the mystery of the island. But then suddenly it veered into the supernatural with smoke monsters and Lucifer himself appearing, etc. Absolutely ridiculous. It's if they took on some of the writers from Gilligan's island. Sorry, Lost is my pet peeve.
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by Shotenzenjin »

If memory serves the final episode of lost revealed to they we're all ready dead. Everyone on the island was dead.
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

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Malcolm
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by Malcolm »

Shotenzenjin wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 4:09 pm If memory serves the final episode of lost revealed to they we're all ready dead. Everyone on the island was dead.
Right, a very shitty bardo experience.
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by PeterC »

Malcolm wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:45 pm
PeterC wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:41 pm
So few shows actually know when to stop.
They are getting better, actually. Limited series are quite frequent now.
They are, but there’s nothing to stop them commissioning a second limited series. Altered Carbon fell into that trap, and despite spending more money on the second season it was a lot worse than the first.
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by Kim O'Hara »

PeterC wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:53 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:45 pm
PeterC wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:41 pm
So few shows actually know when to stop.
They are getting better, actually. Limited series are quite frequent now.
They are, but there’s nothing to stop them commissioning a second limited series. Altered Carbon fell into that trap, and despite spending more money on the second season it was a lot worse than the first.
It doesn't just happen to TV series, either. SF/fantasy falls into the trap very often, starting with (say) a trilogy which basically says everything the author had to say and closes off all the unfinished business. Then, by popular (i.e. publishers' $$ signs) demand, they add a sequel - or a second trilogy - which wanders around all over the place. Dune was one classic example (it happened to the movie version, too - you know, the one that started so promisingly with Star Wars).
Sorry - we're :offtopic:

:focus:
if anyone has any more to say about it. :smile:

:namaste:
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PeterC
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by PeterC »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:37 am Star Wars
Best example of this, really. Started off with a coherent idea - one film, which got split into three because it was too long (which is why they had to build and blow up a second Death Star). Not exactly a revolutionary story - it’s basically Lord of the Rings in space - but ahead of its time on special effects. But everything they did afterwards - prequels, sequels, spin-offs, etc - has been complete nonsense that’s objectively worse than the original trilogy.
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by DewachenVagabond »

PeterC wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:22 pm
Kim O'Hara wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:37 am Star Wars
Best example of this, really. Started off with a coherent idea - one film, which got split into three because it was too long (which is why they had to build and blow up a second Death Star). Not exactly a revolutionary story - it’s basically Lord of the Rings in space - but ahead of its time on special effects. But everything they did afterwards - prequels, sequels, spin-offs, etc - has been complete nonsense that’s objectively worse than the original trilogy.
Eh, there's some really good stuff outside of the original trilogy. The Clone Wars TV show and Star Wars: Rebels were both really good. In the expanded universe, Knights of the Old Republic/Revan and the Darth Bane trilogy are beloved by fans. The last two in particular are, imo, far better than the original trilogy.

But this is all still :offtopic:
:bow: :buddha1: :bow: :anjali: :meditate:
PeterC
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Re: Contextualizing, dealing with the New Age movement

Post by PeterC »

SonamTashi wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 10:15 pm
PeterC wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:22 pm
Kim O'Hara wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:37 am Star Wars
Best example of this, really. Started off with a coherent idea - one film, which got split into three because it was too long (which is why they had to build and blow up a second Death Star). Not exactly a revolutionary story - it’s basically Lord of the Rings in space - but ahead of its time on special effects. But everything they did afterwards - prequels, sequels, spin-offs, etc - has been complete nonsense that’s objectively worse than the original trilogy.
Eh, there's some really good stuff outside of the original trilogy. The Clone Wars TV show and Star Wars: Rebels were both really good. In the expanded universe, Knights of the Old Republic/Revan and the Darth Bane trilogy are beloved by fans. The last two in particular are, imo, far better than the original trilogy.

But this is all still :offtopic:

The magic of the original trilogy is that it’s immediately understandable but has no exposition. No context, even from the first time you see the words, a long time ago in a galaxy far away. There’s no explanation of what Luke’s uncle is farming and why they’re on an otherwise completely desolate planet, because the viewer immediately assumes that he’s doing the equivalent of growing corn on his uncles farm in Kansas but wants to run away to join the army fighting the Nazis, or something like that. We never really learn much about the force, despite all the time spent with Yoda on Dagobah. We don’t know where the empire came from, because we don’t need to, we just know it’s evil. The pinnacle of this no-exposition storytelling is, of course, “Luke, I am your father” - absolutely no explanation or context, but it makes perfect sense in the story.

My issue with everything that was done after the original trilogy is that it’s *all* exposition. The whole objective is explaining the causes, origins, and implications of what was introduced in the original trilogy. Endless elaboration and rationalization. None of it has the self-confidence of the original trilogy.
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