The Tree of World Religions

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Dragpo
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The Tree of World Religions

Post by Dragpo »

Interesting Idea with some errors but a huge project

Created by by Dzvenislava Novakіvska and her team at Funk & Consulting "The Tree of World Religions" is a stunning chart that maps the ramifications of an incredible number of religions over the last 3,000 years.

https://000024.org/religions_tree/reli ... ree_8.html
Malcolm
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Malcolm »

Dragpo wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:23 pm Interesting Idea with some errors but a huge project

Created by by Dzvenislava Novakіvska and her team at Funk & Consulting "The Tree of World Religions" is a stunning chart that maps the ramifications of an incredible number of religions over the last 3,000 years.

https://000024.org/religions_tree/reli ... ree_8.html
Missing all Indigenous Religions, African Religions, as well as Bon. So, a little myopic.
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Queequeg »

Dragpo wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:23 pm Interesting Idea with some errors but a huge project

Created by by Dzvenislava Novakіvska and her team at Funk & Consulting "The Tree of World Religions" is a stunning chart that maps the ramifications of an incredible number of religions over the last 3,000 years.

https://000024.org/religions_tree/reli ... ree_8.html
I suppose they should get credit for trying something they were bound to fail at.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Dragpo wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:23 pm Interesting Idea with some errors but a huge project

Created by by Dzvenislava Novakіvska and her team at Funk & Consulting "The Tree of World Religions" is a stunning chart that maps the ramifications of an incredible number of religions over the last 3,000 years.

https://000024.org/religions_tree/reli ... ree_8.html
It's a fairly old chart. I remember seeing it maybe ten or fifteen years ago. Seeing it again now, I'm struck by just how schismatic the major religions have been.

:thinking:
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Queequeg »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:55 am
Dragpo wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:23 pm Interesting Idea with some errors but a huge project

Created by by Dzvenislava Novakіvska and her team at Funk & Consulting "The Tree of World Religions" is a stunning chart that maps the ramifications of an incredible number of religions over the last 3,000 years.

https://000024.org/religions_tree/reli ... ree_8.html
It's a fairly old chart. I remember seeing it maybe ten or fifteen years ago. Seeing it again now, I'm struck by just how schismatic the major religions have been.

:thinking:
Kim
Liquor stores, barber shops and churches... There's money in religion.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Yes, but I don't think that's the main reason they have been so schismatic.
Looking at monotheism I see a structural problem which makes groups tend to split.

Exaggerating wildly...
Chief Priest deputy: "God told me that you are evil and should be stoned tomorrow.
Deputy to followers: "God told me that the Chief Priest is a heretic and should be stoned today."
Followers to Deputy: "We trust you but the Chief Priest has the soldiers on his side. We have to leave town!"

The problem is "God told me" as the only source of authority, of course, and the fact that it can neither be challenged nor verified. It's not so bad when we don't have that structure, and I think most of the splits in Buddhism were a matter of geographical separation.

:coffee:
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

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Jokes aside, I agree with you.

On one hand, we all follow the voice in our heads. Monotheism covers this over with a single pole social structure, as you point out, which can tend to authoritarianism. I actually argued something along these lines over Passover with a group of not particularly theistic Jews. This system has its faults and I suggested this gift the Jews gave to the world has not been particularly good. My argument was not rejected. That said, it's also a very effective social structure for maintaining social cohesion. Exhibit A: the Jewish diaspora. I think Jews have dealt with the weakness in this system by making study and argumentation a part of the tradition - pole a group of rabbis about any particular issues and you're likely to find a variety of answers. But, they also have something deeper binding them in the shared history, even as there are divisions.

Christianity and Islam take the same monotheism and, perhaps because its adherents are not bound to each other by blood, the emphasis ends up on the authority. In that case, disagreements can only end in subjugation or schism.

The specifics of this chart are one thing. The concept it illustrates is more compelling.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Malcolm
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:53 pm Jokes aside, I agree with you.

On one hand, we all follow the voice in our heads. Monotheism covers this over with a single pole social structure, as you point out, which can tend to authoritarianism. I actually argued something along these lines over Passover with a group of not particularly theistic Jews. This system has its faults and I suggested this gift the Jews gave to the world has not been particularly good. My argument was not rejected. That said, it's also a very effective social structure for maintaining social cohesion. Exhibit A: the Jewish diaspora. I think Jews have dealt with the weakness in this system by making study and argumentation a part of the tradition - pole a group of rabbis about any particular issues and you're likely to find a variety of answers. But, they also have something deeper binding them in the shared history, even as there are divisions.

Christianity and Islam take the same monotheism and, perhaps because its adherents are not bound to each other by blood, the emphasis ends up on the authority. In that case, disagreements can only end in subjugation or schism.

The specifics of this chart are one thing. The concept it illustrates is more compelling.
We can thank the Zoroastrians for Monotheism, that’s who the Hebrew people learned monotheism from during the Babylonian exile.
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by DNS »

Yeah, it's been around a while now. I like it, even though it's not perfect. It shows that Jainism and Buddhism came from the non-Vedic Shramana root, whereas most people think Jainism and Buddhism came from Vedic Brahmanism. Hinduism came from a completely separate branch (the Vedic branch), so I like this diagram for that important fact.
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Budai »

DNS wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:29 pm Yeah, it's been around a while now. I like it, even though it's not perfect. It shows that Jainism and Buddhism came from the non-Vedic Shramana root, whereas most people think Jainism and Buddhism came from Vedic Brahmanism. Hinduism came from a completely separate branch (the Vedic branch), so I like this diagram for that important fact.
Shakyamuni was taught in the Vedas as a child, then left home and studied with many various Teachers and Sages in various places, mountains, hermitages, Spiritual communities, then upon setting on His own meditative journey, reaching Enlightenment He developed a system to Enlighten others based on the Buddha-mind, and so He was the One that originally descended Buddhism into this world. Like Thich Nhat Hanh says, Buddhism is made up of non-Buddhist elements, such as various other Teachings that came together to help Shakyamuni propound His philosophy and reach Enlightenment, but all the while Buddhism is Buddhism, has it’s root in an Eternal Dharma and Adi-Buddhas, from time immemorial, since beginningless time, and Shakyamuni is it’s Origin.
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Hazel »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:05 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:53 pm Jokes aside, I agree with you.

On one hand, we all follow the voice in our heads. Monotheism covers this over with a single pole social structure, as you point out, which can tend to authoritarianism. I actually argued something along these lines over Passover with a group of not particularly theistic Jews. This system has its faults and I suggested this gift the Jews gave to the world has not been particularly good. My argument was not rejected. That said, it's also a very effective social structure for maintaining social cohesion. Exhibit A: the Jewish diaspora. I think Jews have dealt with the weakness in this system by making study and argumentation a part of the tradition - pole a group of rabbis about any particular issues and you're likely to find a variety of answers. But, they also have something deeper binding them in the shared history, even as there are divisions.

Christianity and Islam take the same monotheism and, perhaps because its adherents are not bound to each other by blood, the emphasis ends up on the authority. In that case, disagreements can only end in subjugation or schism.

The specifics of this chart are one thing. The concept it illustrates is more compelling.
We can thank the Zoroastrians for Monotheism, that’s who the Hebrew people learned monotheism from during the Babylonian exile.
I feel like monotheism is a natural stage in the progression. Polytheism -> Henotheism -> the theism which acknowledges but rejects other gods (I forget the term) -> monotheism. I however am not well learned on this topic.
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Malcolm »

Könchok Chödrak wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:49 pm Like Thich Nhat Hanh says, Buddhism is made up of non-Buddhist elements...
No it isn't. Buddha explicitly denies that it was.
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Budai »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:04 pm
Könchok Chödrak wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:49 pm Like Thich Nhat Hanh says, Buddhism is made up of non-Buddhist elements...
No it isn't. Buddha explicitly denies that it was.
Well it’s an Expedient Means. From some people’s perspective, all Maitri is Buddhist, and I agree with that one.

Buddhism as a tradition is one thing, that’s what Thich Nhat Hanh means, Buddhism as an Absolute is another, and that is the perspective I mentioned just now, where all Compassion is Buddhist. When it comes down to it good and evil are obviously not alike, and good is not made up of anything evil, but in Upayic terms Thich Nhat Hanh mentioned what He said for another reason. So you are correct to say what you say.
Last edited by Budai on Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Tree of World Religions

Post by Aemilius »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:05 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:53 pm Jokes aside, I agree with you.

On one hand, we all follow the voice in our heads. Monotheism covers this over with a single pole social structure, as you point out, which can tend to authoritarianism. I actually argued something along these lines over Passover with a group of not particularly theistic Jews. This system has its faults and I suggested this gift the Jews gave to the world has not been particularly good. My argument was not rejected. That said, it's also a very effective social structure for maintaining social cohesion. Exhibit A: the Jewish diaspora. I think Jews have dealt with the weakness in this system by making study and argumentation a part of the tradition - pole a group of rabbis about any particular issues and you're likely to find a variety of answers. But, they also have something deeper binding them in the shared history, even as there are divisions.

Christianity and Islam take the same monotheism and, perhaps because its adherents are not bound to each other by blood, the emphasis ends up on the authority. In that case, disagreements can only end in subjugation or schism.

The specifics of this chart are one thing. The concept it illustrates is more compelling.
We can thank the Zoroastrians for Monotheism, that’s who the Hebrew people learned monotheism from during the Babylonian exile.
The tree is also lacking the influence of Sumeric and Egyptian religions. For example the story of Adam & Eve is said to come from Sumerian mythology where the first man is called Adapa. Which again is a clear indo-aryan word, compare with Adinatha, Adibuddha, Adhipa, etc...
Also Greek and Roman religions are absent. European theism (and nontheism) have inherited something, terms and language for example, from them.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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