Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

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Bristollad
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by Bristollad »

reiun wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:16 pm
Bristollad wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:58 pm When someone misuses language it is disingenuous to complain that people misunderstand what they say.
Per the theme of this thread, I don’t see occasions where spelling, grammar or pronunciation can be criticized in the quoted material.
I appreciate readers who care about an author's intent, and I believe this is what gives rise to the kind and patient dialogue here. (Fwiw, conscious intent does not necessarily limit meaning.)
I think everyone on this thread cares about an author's intent. But that intent is conveyed by language. Written language is a harder medium for understanding than face-to-face communication. Following commonly understood conventions of written language allows for the author's intent to be more easily understood. It's as simple as that.

Fwiw, I have no idea what you mean by "conscious intent does not necessarily limit meaning" but that's not because of any misuse of the language, I just don't understand what you were trying to convey. Following the normal conventions of written language doesn't guarantee that the meaning will be understood, just makes it more likely.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
karmanyingpo
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by karmanyingpo »

Queequeg wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:08 pm
dfgs3434 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:01 am From a Buddhist perspective, the way a lot of people demand language look a certain way - especially English - makes no sense. A lot of people are attached to this idea of what language "is". This speling "is" correct, this spelling "is" incorrect. And because it "is" this way, that is the way it should be, too. Writing "its" as "it's" is seen as a problem. Or writing "lose" as "loose" or "less" vs. "fewer", etc. They say it "isn't written that way"... despite the fact that someone just wrote it that way.

Everything changes over time. The way language is now isn't going to stay the same. Those rules will change. And who changes it? The people who speak it. Where else does language come from? Why is it not people's right to spell words in a way that the dictionary doesn't (and is often more phonetic anyway)? The amount of intolerance is insane. Like... it's just an apostrophe. You are not born hating a punctuation symbol in a word, you are taught to hate it. Every single aspect of language can be changed at any time and there's nothing you can do about it.

In my mind, this kind of thing is a perfect example of how attachment, dogma, and refusal to accept the changing nature of all things, causes nothing but suffering. Focus on the people giving the message, not the combination of letters they use to give it.
There's a difference between language evolving and dialects, and just not knowing how to spell, proper grammar, syntax, etc. I'd argue that a lot of people suffer because they lack the language skills to express themselves, analyze things, including themselves , with subtlety and nuance. (Plenty of people suffer because they get lost in words, too, but that's a different issue). These things matter because we can't read each others' minds. If we wish to communicate with each other about anything more than gesturing where the bathroom is we need a common language. So, yes, spelling, grammar, etc. matter. Language is a significant subject in Buddhist discourse. Refinement of language allows us access, does not guarantee, a qualitatively richer life.

That said, minor spelling and grammatical errors ought not matter in a medium like this. In formal writing, they matter.
"There's a difference between language evolving and dialects, and just not knowing how to spell, proper grammar, syntax, etc."

There is some conventional difference yes but the difference .. is not so real as one might think based on a typical school education. What we are taught in English and writing classes is what is correct or good language from the point of view of PRESCRIPTIVE grammar which is great for upholding a standard norm but, ... is not in any way INHERENTLY better or more correct. The prescriptive norm has social power and is important to know so that you can use it when it is advantageous or socially expected but more accurately speaking shouldn't be regarded as actually more correct or proper

I have studied linguistics and something that many people who come at language from the English class perspective haven't been taught is that language as it exists already "in the wild" has rules that organically emerge... Language is by definition, a rule governed system of communication, so even the most "low class" and "improper" ways of communicating (not really either of these labels by nature but just by designation and popular convention) have intricate systems of rules that govern what you can and cannot say grammatically.

We all know that you can say "Me and my friend went to the store" (even though it is frowned upon by prescriptivists) but you really can't say "Me went to the store" and even those who are prolific users of the "me and ..." in subject position will know never to say "me went to the store" Prescriptivism just upholds certain rules by convention as preferable (tied to social economic class power dynamics and language history....) but ultimately it is arbitrary and artificial, not a natural characteristic of the language that X is more proper by nature

Where you draw the line between dialects and just speaking incorrectly is not a real distinction made in linguistics (unless by incorrect you mean actual errors that result from slips of the tongue, aphasia, language disorder etc). There are regional dialects but there are also variations of language that are tethered not to language but to social class, ethnicity, etc. and it even varies from person to person. Hence use of terms like regiolect, ethnolect idiolect etc. All of these variations can be described as rule governed systems and comparing one system's worth according to another system's rules is like apples and oranges. Prescriptivism has its place and in a modern world we do more or less need a formal standard but we shouldn't see it as being more than what it actually is: not really inherently or objectively more correct or better but just a useful convention

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
reiun
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by reiun »

Bristollad wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:42 pm I think everyone on this thread cares about an author's intent. But that intent is conveyed by language. Written language is a harder medium for understanding than face-to-face communication. Following commonly understood conventions of written language allows for the author's intent to be more easily understood. It's as simple as that.
Well, but it could be argued that written language can be edited and honed, unlike contemporaneous speech, and may at least sometimes have the benefit of prior thought. The latter might give more clues, like tone and facial expression. Plus you can add to it. But you can't unsay it.

I suppose we are now off the spelling, grammar and pronunciation theme?
Bristollad wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:42 pm Fwiw, I have no idea what you mean by "conscious intent does not necessarily limit meaning" but that's not because of any misuse of the language, I just don't understand what you were trying to convey.
Only that the idea is worth a thought (because I don't have the energy or linguistic lucidity to discuss Jungian Psychology or aspects of Literary Criticism anymore). Meaning can be broad, specific, subjective, unintended, ambiguous, variable, unconscious, etc.
Bristollad wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:42 pm Following the normal conventions of written language doesn't guarantee that the meaning will be understood, just makes it more likely.
If by normal conventions you mean spelling, grammar and pronunciation, again, the quoted text was not a problem, for me at least.
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tkp67
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by tkp67 »

Bristollad wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:39 pm There is no required entry exam or stated level of proficiency but if one's use of language doesn't convey the intended meaning to the other posters, it's missing its mark.
Or perhaps my perspective is such that it doesn't conform to traditional convention.

Yes I deviate from the norm but the norm has not proven to be empty so you can appreciate my position.
It isn't an unknown metric. The metric is not MY causes, conditions and capacities but the established rules for ease of communication.
There is a difference between data and information - data becomes information when it is given a form that can be read, understood and used. The established rules (grammar, punctuation etc.) are what turns the data conveyed in writing into information.
It is more than just grammar and it coincides with an avoidance of topical statements. I won't say it is strategic because unintentional condition can appear the same way. The lack of productive outcome is enough proof of efficiency. It is grossly disingenuous two years into my membership here.
If someone's posts do not successfully convey the meaning they intended, whose fault is it? Is it the fault of the poster for not being clearer or the fault of the reader for not being able to guess what was intended?

If the meaning is beyond grasp of the audience how does the speaker know without input? What is the cost of asking stating I don't understand that would you mind rewording it?

This is casual conversation and the sharing of ideas. The authority that comes with conditioning is not something that has dominion over me. Sorry I don't need to be a linguist to be objective. I put in a great deal of time conforming out of respect for the great value and worthy membership yourself included. However there is a real tkp67 who doesn't compromise certain positions because of principle. There is also a real tkp67 with a deep wealth of life experience that isn't easily betrayed by a desire to conform to group dynamics. I understand this doesn't often pass the smell test unless you know the real tkp67. Maybe communication in rel life isn't this difficult because I can speak my mind without imposing it on others. I care about the well fare of others deeply and this comes out in my mannerisms.
Crying, "Discrimination!" if one is misunderstood does not mean there was any.

Having never seen a pink elephant inside or outside of a room, I will happily deny it.
You are underlining my point friend.

Denying cause and effect is how all thing become corrupt in the first place. It is the great evil that caused the suffering Shakymuni saw when he left the temple.
Last edited by tkp67 on Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tkp67
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by tkp67 »

TY for the kind words and support. I do not want to make this a point of division or make people feel badly in the process of asking for a more open minded process that doesn't compromise communications for any party involved. As manifestation of such things would have it I think stating as much might be helpful to point things in that direction.

I willingly take ownership for any discord created by this conversation. Not to be chevalier but these types of communication are difficult and efforts made to do so are deserving of appreciation.

:anjali:
Bristollad
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by Bristollad »

tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:41 am
Bristollad wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:39 pm There is no required entry exam or stated level of proficiency but if one's use of language doesn't convey the intended meaning to the other posters, it's missing its mark.
Or perhaps my perspective is such that it doesn't conform to traditional convention.

Yes I deviate from the norm but the norm has not proven to be empty so you can appreciate my position.
It isn't an unknown metric. The metric is not MY causes, conditions and capacities but the established rules for ease of communication.
There is a difference between data and information - data becomes information when it is given a form that can be read, understood and used. The established rules (grammar, punctuation etc.) are what turns the data conveyed in writing into information.
It is more than just grammar and it coincides with an avoidance of topical statements. I won't say it is strategic because unintentional condition can appear the same way. The lack of productive outcome is enough proof of efficiency. It is grossly disingenuous two years into my membership here.
If someone's posts do not successfully convey the meaning they intended, whose fault is it? Is it the fault of the poster for not being clearer or the fault of the reader for not being able to guess what was intended?

If the meaning is beyond grasp of the audience how does the speaker know without input? What is the cost of asking stating I don't understand that would you mind rewording it?

This is casual conversation and the sharing of ideas. The authority that comes with conditioning is not something that has dominion over me. Sorry I don't need to be a linguist to be objective. I put in a great deal of time conforming out of respect for the great value and worthy membership yourself included. However there is a real tkp67 who doesn't compromise certain positions because of principle. There is also a real tkp67 with a deep wealth of life experience that isn't easily betrayed by a desire to conform to group dynamics. I understand this doesn't often pass the smell test unless you know the real tkp67. Maybe communication in rel life isn't this difficult because I can speak my mind without imposing it on others. I care about the well fare of others deeply and this comes out in my mannerisms.
Crying, "Discrimination!" if one is misunderstood does not mean there was any.

Having never seen a pink elephant inside or outside of a room, I will happily deny it.
You are underlining my point friend.

Denying cause and effect is how all thing become corrupt in the first place. It is the great evil that caused the suffering Shakymuni saw when he left the temple.
Having a non-traditional perspective is not a problem. Expressing that perspective in a confusing way is the problem.
Of course the norm is empty, it is merely a set of arbitrary rules that are currently accepted for the sake of ease of communication. Being based on causes and conditions, how could it be other than empty?

But whatever... I’ll just go back to ignoring posts that fail to convey meaning.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
PeterC
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by PeterC »

tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:41 am Yes I deviate from the norm but the norm has not proven to be empty so you can appreciate my position.
Denying cause and effect is how all thing become corrupt in the first place. It is the great evil that caused the suffering Shakymuni saw when he left the temple.
Perhaps, like when learning arithmetic, a worked example will help. I read these two comments, and while I can identify subject, verb and object, I have no idea what you're actually trying to say.

How can the norm be proven to be empty? By whom? Empty in what sense? And what is the position that you hold that we should appreciate?

Which "all thing" became "corrupt"? In what sense corrupt? What is the "first place" here? What is this "great evil" you speak of, and by temple, do you mean his father's palace or something else?
muni
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by muni »

dfgs3434 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:01 am From a Buddhist perspective, the way a lot of people demand language look a certain way - especially English - makes no sense. A lot of people are attached to this idea of what language "is". This speling "is" correct, this spelling "is" incorrect. And because it "is" this way, that is the way it should be, too. Writing "its" as "it's" is seen as a problem. Or writing "lose" as "loose" or "less" vs. "fewer", etc. They say it "isn't written that way"... despite the fact that someone just wrote it that way.

Everything changes over time. The way language is now isn't going to stay the same. Those rules will change. And who changes it? The people who speak it. Where else does language come from? Why is it not people's right to spell words in a way that the dictionary doesn't (and is often more phonetic anyway)? The amount of intolerance is insane. Like... it's just an apostrophe. You are not born hating a punctuation symbol in a word, you are taught to hate it. Every single aspect of language can be changed at any time and there's nothing you can do about it.

In my mind, this kind of thing is a perfect example of how attachment, dogma, and refusal to accept the changing nature of all things, causes nothing but suffering. Focus on the people giving the message, not the combination of letters they use to give it.
Of course, I write and speak perfect English...

..I think patience and tolerance cannot be trained through MY wishes for perfect writing, perfect speaking, and perfect behaving fellows who are patient, kind, compassionate...sigh. (But damned..)

For me language is very much based on trying to understand each other and this is not at all just by right grammar but to be more open, accessible for those who struggle, to be helpful, to be kind, in whatever way fellows write or speak.

I love to be in a country where people speak a language I do not understand at all. It is like all kind of birds singing among each other.
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tkp67
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by tkp67 »

PeterC wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:09 am
tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:41 am Yes I deviate from the norm but the norm has not proven to be empty so you can appreciate my position.
Denying cause and effect is how all thing become corrupt in the first place. It is the great evil that caused the suffering Shakymuni saw when he left the temple.
Perhaps, like when learning arithmetic, a worked example will help. I read these two comments, and while I can identify subject, verb and object, I have no idea what you're actually trying to say.
Sure I'm easy.
peterc wrote:How can the norm be proven to be empty? By whom? Empty in what sense? And what is the position that you hold that we should appreciate?
Since we are playing by particulars I must call out this blatant logically fallacy.

You state and I quote "I read these two comments, and while I can identify subject, verb and object, I have no idea what you're actually trying to say." and then go and ask a question based on the meaning as written. Also the norm being empty wasn't contested by the previous poster. Yet obvious a detractor because of the vocal stand taken in this thread. What an interesting phenomenon. Has anyone tried to examine it? I can unpack that one quite deeply if you ever care to understand it.

See this is the typical nature of this behavior here. Point to some lack in grammar and then use it as smoke to gaslight the topic. This is why there are a handful of personalities that react this way every time yet never address the points at face value.

Don't worry my friend I am easy, adaptable and gracious enough to accommodate you none the less. Good will naturally accompanies a lack of attachment and bias so why wouldn't I display these traits. Seems reasonable, right?

To your question, simply put it is empty because everything is empty until someone projects an intrinsic self into the matter. The minute a non issue becomes a grand issue you can be sure the person making the stink has a personal stake in the outcome.
Which "all thing" became "corrupt"? In what sense corrupt? What is the "first place" here? What is this "great evil" you speak of, and by temple, do you mean his father's palace or something else?
I don't know Peter,perhaps you understand this better than you like to admit. I did make a gross error using temple and thank you for bringing that to my attention. So yes, palace is the intended word and thus your understanding is correct.

In this instance I assume that the meaning can be discerned from questions. It is unfair to make that assumption? I don't mind erring on the side of caution here. So let me give a detailed and verbose explanation.

All things are literally that. Corruption is being used in the following context: "the process by which something, typically a word or expression, is changed from its original use or meaning to one that is regarded as erroneous or debased.".

Thus all things by nature are corruptible due to a number of factors but impermanence and delusion are primary here. The first place is from the beginningless beginning or more succinctly from the recorded annals of time. The great evil is the cause and effect of the caste system.

I hope you find this sufficient. If not perhaps you can simply let me know where the disconnect is.

:anjali:
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tkp67
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by tkp67 »

Bristollad wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:23 am
tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:41 am
Bristollad wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:39 pm There is no required entry exam or stated level of proficiency but if one's use of language doesn't convey the intended meaning to the other posters, it's missing its mark.
Or perhaps my perspective is such that it doesn't conform to traditional convention.

Yes I deviate from the norm but the norm has not proven to be empty so you can appreciate my position.
It isn't an unknown metric. The metric is not MY causes, conditions and capacities but the established rules for ease of communication.
There is a difference between data and information - data becomes information when it is given a form that can be read, understood and used. The established rules (grammar, punctuation etc.) are what turns the data conveyed in writing into information.
It is more than just grammar and it coincides with an avoidance of topical statements. I won't say it is strategic because unintentional condition can appear the same way. The lack of productive outcome is enough proof of efficiency. It is grossly disingenuous two years into my membership here.
If someone's posts do not successfully convey the meaning they intended, whose fault is it? Is it the fault of the poster for not being clearer or the fault of the reader for not being able to guess what was intended?

If the meaning is beyond grasp of the audience how does the speaker know without input? What is the cost of asking stating I don't understand that would you mind rewording it?

This is casual conversation and the sharing of ideas. The authority that comes with conditioning is not something that has dominion over me. Sorry I don't need to be a linguist to be objective. I put in a great deal of time conforming out of respect for the great value and worthy membership yourself included. However there is a real tkp67 who doesn't compromise certain positions because of principle. There is also a real tkp67 with a deep wealth of life experience that isn't easily betrayed by a desire to conform to group dynamics. I understand this doesn't often pass the smell test unless you know the real tkp67. Maybe communication in rel life isn't this difficult because I can speak my mind without imposing it on others. I care about the well fare of others deeply and this comes out in my mannerisms.
Crying, "Discrimination!" if one is misunderstood does not mean there was any.

Having never seen a pink elephant inside or outside of a room, I will happily deny it.
You are underlining my point friend.

Denying cause and effect is how all thing become corrupt in the first place. It is the great evil that caused the suffering Shakymuni saw when he left the temple.
Having a non-traditional perspective is not a problem. Expressing that perspective in a confusing way is the problem.
Of course the norm is empty, it is merely a set of arbitrary rules that are currently accepted for the sake of ease of communication. Being based on causes and conditions, how could it be other than empty?

But whatever... I’ll just go back to ignoring posts that fail to convey meaning.
Well I assume this thread never would have been made if it wasn't a noticeable event here. It should not be a noticeable event here.

Problem is it is a bit more than form though because if I were to write more clearly the meaning still challenges the status quo. That is why people attack my character.

Look at the blockchain thread for instance. My position is no different than MIT's https://professionalprograms.mit.edu/op ... echnology/. If only I had seen it prior to the discussion right? :rolling:.

It's OK, I love you guys and it is fine to shoot this messenger as long as it saves other people from having to suffer those things.

Words are seeds that bloom based on the fertility of the ground they are planted in.

:anjali:
PeterC
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by PeterC »

tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:24 pm
I hope you find this sufficient. If not perhaps you can simply let me know where the disconnect is.

:anjali:
It’s very simple. I asked a number of questions whose answers would have helped me understand those sentences. You wrote several paragraphs without answering any of those questions, except the one about palace vs temple. That’s why we can’t communicate. When I ask you to explain, you don’t. I don’t know if you can understand what I write - I can’t be sure, because you’re response has little to do with my questions or comments. So we continue like Vladimir and Estragon.
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by GDPR_Anonymized001 »

PeterC wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:49 pm
tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:24 pm
I hope you find this sufficient. If not perhaps you can simply let me know where the disconnect is.

:anjali:
It’s very simple. I asked a number of questions whose answers would have helped me understand those sentences. You wrote several paragraphs without answering any of those questions, except the one about palace vs temple. That’s why we can’t communicate. When I ask you to explain, you don’t. I don’t know if you can understand what I write - I can’t be sure, because you’re response has little to do with my questions or comments. So we continue like Vladimir and Estragon.
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Bristollad
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by Bristollad »

tkp67 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:58 pm
Problem is it is a bit more than form though because if I were to write more clearly the meaning still challenges the status quo. That is why people attack my character.
I have no problem with posts that challenge the status quo (whatever you imagine that to be), I simply often do not understand what you mean. In a past thread I asked if English was a second language for you because of this. After that thread fell apart, I added you to my ignore list to avoid unpleasantness but it is against my nature to ignore anyone.

However, it seems unlikely that your communication style will change anytime soon. I'm not a detractor by the way, I don't even know if I disagree with your positions on many things that are discussed - I can't determine your meaning the majority of the time. So I will leave it here.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by Queequeg »

An unproductive conversation about unproductive conversation.

OP, we don't have grammar and spelling bigots here, but we do have a bias in favor of intelligible conversation. See above.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by PeterC »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:37 pm An unproductive conversation about unproductive conversation.
I believe the technical term for that is “postmodernism”?
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Queequeg
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by Queequeg »

PeterC wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:03 pm
Queequeg wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:37 pm An unproductive conversation about unproductive conversation.
I believe the technical term for that is “postmodernism”?
Make it an nft and put it in the Whitney.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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tkp67
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by tkp67 »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:09 pm
PeterC wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:03 pm
Queequeg wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:37 pm An unproductive conversation about unproductive conversation.
I believe the technical term for that is “postmodernism”?
Make it an nft and put it in the Whitney.
At least it would represent progress

:popcorn:

:anjali:
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tkp67
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by tkp67 »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:37 pm An unproductive conversation about unproductive conversation.

OP, we don't have grammar and spelling bigots here, but we do have a bias in favor of intelligible conversation. See above.
Yes because a subjective metric like that is how bias remains systemic. However it is not impenetrable to inspection for what it is.

An ineffective smoke screen.

:popcorn: Anyone want? I added some tasty ghee.

:anjali:
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by Giovanni »

What is “subjective metric”?
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Re: Making grammar, spelling, and pronunciation mistakes

Post by Ayu »

Someone who was not involved into this discussion asked to have this topic locked now, because it leads to disparaging speech against individuals.

I give locking a try. Anybody who wants to continue with this topic, please submit your reasoned apply via PM. Thanks.
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