Genuine advice sought.

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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Matt J
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Matt J »

All the texts and masters in the world don't mean anything if the teaching is not alive for you. For all I know, everyone surrounding me is a fully enlightened Buddha. But that won't help me if I keep the teachings at the conceptual level and never experience them directly. It seems to me that many, many people I've met in real life (including me) like to collect teachings and think about teachings, but when it comes to practice, well...

Of course, there's also the flip side of folks who practice, but don't know where they're going (also me).
PeterC wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:24 pm Just a small step back from there and you’re in the territory of “everything’s equally valid”. There is a difference between the authority of canonical texts and recognized masters, and the opinion of anyone who knows how to access the internet
I know [email protected]!t! But the relative is very... sticky.
Malcolm wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:58 pm Experiences are mind; mind is relative.
That's why you also have teachers and scriptures. But teachers and scriptures without experience/practice is just sophistry (or perhaps pandit-try?). It's not one or the other, I have been recommended a balance of the three. Scriptures and experience help you discriminate the good and bad teachers. Teachers and scriptures help you discriminate the cheese and the signposts. Teachers and experience prevent the scriptures from hanging around as dead letter.
Simon E. wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:42 pm Official authority may not be a guarantee of realisation, but an absence of official authority in certain traditions, particularly Vajrayana including Dzogchen is a real issue and problem in my view. In the absence of such clear indicators of authority I for one am not inclined to give much weight to proffered opinions. ‘Experience’ can be the result of faulty learning, mindset, or as Scrooge observes to Marley’s ghost ‘ a morsel of undigested cheese’.
Last edited by Matt J on Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
Simon E.
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Simon E. »

I agree that texts alone cannot usually bring teachings alive and sustain that life depending on the working out of karma. But a bona fide teacher IS the teachings and the life in those teachings. I was a pious youth. Suttas and Sutras were my meat and drink.
Then I met my teacher. He embodied the texts and breathed a tornado through them.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Mantrik
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Mantrik »

Surely you can accept or discount their source as well as their own views, and just not bother responding to something you deem invalid either with or without a source?

Since termas and lamas abound, we can have no way of knowing which are worth engaging with, except if the lineage has a good track record of helping its adherents. Even then it is a matter of how useful that is for us personally, or rather how much we respect it.

You and I both know a sect which has invented its own lineage based on a leader inventing his own terma.
Some of what he teaches is often straight down the line Nyingma. So if I were to offer him as a source for an assertion here, knowing that his whole terma and lineage are fantasy, does it get rejected as inauthentic because of its source even though the content is sound? Or if he posted here as a 'Rinpoche' and referenced his own dreams as a valid source, what then?

(In 'the other place' people are forever quoting scriptures as if the source is perfect......... so they can then argue about the interpretations of each other and of other sources.)

Just trying to suggest that you may be expecting far too much, and simply have to fall back on 'rules'.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

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Crazywisdom
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Crazywisdom »

People and the posts on this forum are of marginal importance.
Simon E.
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Simon E. »

You are probably right.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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tkp67
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by tkp67 »

Four Reliances
The four reliances (Skt. catuḥpratisaraṇa; Tib. རྟོན་པ་བཞི་, tönpa shyi, Wyl. rton pa bzhi) —

Rely on the message of the teacher, not on his personality (gang zag la mi rton/ chos la rton);
Rely on the meaning, not just on the words (tshig la mi rton/ don la rton);
Rely on the real meaning, not on the provisional one (drang don la mi rton/ nges don la rton);
Rely on your wisdom mind, not on your ordinary, judgemental mind (rnam shes la mi rton/ ye shes la rton).

These were taught by the Buddha shortly before his passing away in sutras such as the Sutra of the Teaching of Akshayamati and the Sutra of the Questions of the Naga King Anavatapta. They are commented upon in works such as Asanga's Stages of Spiritual Practice.
---> https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?tit ... _reliances

Four Standards
our ranks of bodhisattvas Bodhisattvas who embrace and propagate the correct teaching after the Buddha’s death. They thereby serve as Buddhist teachers upon whom people can rely. They are also defined as those bodhisattvas who follow the four standards: (1) to rely on the Law and not upon persons; (2) to rely on the meaning of the teaching and not upon the words; (3) to rely on wisdom and not upon discriminative thinking; and (4) to rely on sutras that are complete and final and not upon those that are not complete and final. The expressions such as “bodhisattvas of the four standards” and “sages of the four standards” are often used in reference to the bodhisattvas and sages who appear in the world after the Buddha’s passing and spread his teachings in accordance with the four standards.
---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd- ... dhisattvas
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Ayu
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Ayu »

Some discussion slipped into meta-quarrel. The initiator expressed their regret and asked to remove the initiating post. The following tail was removed together with it.
For the benefit and ease of all sentient beings. :heart:
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Ayu
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Ayu »

The OP claims his question is answered.
Thank you everybody.
For the benefit and ease of all sentient beings. :heart:
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