Genuine advice sought.

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
Simon E.
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Genuine advice sought.

Post by Simon E. »

So..if you suspect that someone on DW who frequently interrupts threads Is a fantasist, do you;

A) Ignore it because everyone can see the reality and it obviously fulfils some need for them? Or..

B) Challenge them, with the risk that you become the person interrupting the thread?

Genuine question.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

All sentient beings are fantasists really.

I think the best course on DW is always to focus on what someone says, rather than to identify them as this or that. It still gets frustrating, but what they say is record, what we project on their personality based on what they say is much more iffy.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low
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jake
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by jake »

C) Report the posts that are interrupting with nonsense. This enables Mods to remove them or address the issue as best they can.
Simon E.
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Simon E. »

Thanks guys. It becomes difficult when a poster is citing authority that they can’t or won’t substantiate and it is outside of the academic forum and not covered by its criteria.
I fully take the point that until enlightenment we are all fantasists to a degree.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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LastLegend
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by LastLegend »

Good work Simon E.

Remember tolerance. Everyone is imperfect okay including yourself and people tolerate your personality. Don’t think that everyone thinks you are great. I don’t, but I don’t hunt you follow you or bother with what you write. Can you comprehend why I don’t do that?

In American English since you many times correct people’s grammar, American people often say without compassion, “stop acting like a bitch.”
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Simon E. wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:56 am So..if you suspect that someone on DW who frequently interrupts threads Is a fantasist, do you;

A) Ignore it because everyone can see the reality and it obviously fulfils some need for them? Or..

B) Challenge them, with the risk that you become the person interrupting the thread?

Genuine question.
B) can be metadiscussion, which is usually "interrupting the thread" and always against the TOS.
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:12 am All sentient beings are fantasists really.

I think the best course on DW is always to focus on what someone says, rather than to identify them as this or that. It still gets frustrating, but what they say is record, what we project on their personality based on what they say is much more iffy.
:good:

:namaste:
Kim
Simon E.
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Simon E. »

I agree Kim actually...but there is a convention on the forum even outside of the academic forum, that appeals to authority particularly when made frequently by an individual, are backed by some kind of authentication of their source.
But you are correct. All the mods can do I guess within the current guidelines is to make sure that when following threads, readers, particularly if inexperienced, are aware of the adage ‘caveat emptor’.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
tkp67
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by tkp67 »

Just want to mention sometimes when I see wrong view reasonably addressed in a thread it helps correct my own wrong views.

IDK if it is always appropriate just saying.
Simon E.
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Simon E. »

Actually what I was addressing was not so much wrong views as views attributed to anonymous teachers.
All schools of the Mahayana are pretty much based on the authority of teachers. Live or dead. Those lines of authority need to be clear and checkable. When we are simply giving our own subjective experiences or thoughts (which can be interesting and useful) we need to be clear that’s what they are. Or so it seems to me.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
tkp67
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by tkp67 »

No snide intended but this teaches me to be careful of the weight put on sources because of how others view it.

No dog in this one however and I am not looking to rock the boat :consoling:
Simon E.
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Simon E. »

If you belong to a tradition which does not define itself by lineage then different conventions apply.
The Vajrayana does, and so if I am not mistaken does Zen.
The issue becomes a problem if those traditions with a clear lineage are commented on by those unable or unwilling to reveal their own lineage.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
tkp67
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by tkp67 »

I admit ignorance in regards to traditions other than the one I study and even then I cannot claim a level of expertise. Just the observations from dedicated practice.

Hope it works out.
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LastLegend
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by LastLegend »

If the issue is to demand that every person has to disclose their teachers’ name on the East Asian side, then this should be a general demand for all and not towards a particular individual. I’ll be careful and state what I write as personal opinion this is just to avoid people giving me a hard time. However, everyone here is free to notate everything they write with an authorial source. I just hope I can still have an opinion.

All these years in America, I’ve learned that Starbucks can get sued if they forget to put a sleeve on a hot cup of coffee. My point is you are looking for issues they are always to be found, but are you applying this to everyone or a particular person you are targeting. If you sweep the house, there is always trash. Also, if you particularly smite someone, you will barely see any issues. It’s biases we all have. The difference is whether we acknowledge it or not.
Last edited by LastLegend on Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make personal vows.

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PeterC
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by PeterC »

Simon E. wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:41 am Actually what I was addressing was not so much wrong views as views attributed to anonymous teachers.
All schools of the Mahayana are pretty much based on the authority of teachers. Live or dead. Those lines of authority need to be clear and checkable. When we are simply giving our own subjective experiences or thoughts (which can be interesting and useful) we need to be clear that’s what they are. Or so it seems to me.
The thin maroon line separating useful discussion of the Dharma from solipsistic speculation is clarity around sources of authority. I think we generally do well here on forcing people to justify their claims through some sort of authority - whether textual, instruction from teachers, or otherwise “my experience”, which of course we can ignore freely.

I think it’s reasonable and indeed a norm of this community that people can be challenged to state their grounds in an argument. I thunk it’s also reasonable to tell people politely if they’re being disruptive or digressing, and to report to mods if they persist. But that’s just my personal opinion.
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LastLegend
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by LastLegend »

There is a level of comfortable zone that seems to be the norm on the forum, and I am fine with that. I personally don’t seek a particular individual to ask them to do anything. I don’t play victim because I also participate as the aggressor.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
Simon E.
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Simon E. »

Which is OK, and has nothing to do with the OP. It is not you that is asking for advice. It’s me.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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LastLegend
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by LastLegend »

Master Simon,

We can assume it’s solely a general issue but it might very well be a personal one.

We can have an argument over Chan being sutric and backed it up with all authorial sources, doesn’t mean that is not biased and not coming from a limited experience.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
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Dan74
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Dan74 »

People have teachers and talk crap and people don't have teachers and talk crap.

I think here most people take what's written with a grain of salt, regardless of professed credentials. "Ignore" function is very useful too.

If memory serves, you create a thread like this with respect to users who get your goat, every few years, Simon, waging a campaign on multiple fronts to expunge them from the forum. It must be a special kind of karma to be reborn as a Dharmapala of Buddhist Forums :smile:

On the other hand, it's possible to create subfora open only to people with certain requirements, like being current and active students within certain lineages.
Last edited by Dan74 on Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fa Dao
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Fa Dao »

Dan74 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:19 pm People have teachers and talk crap and people don't have teachers and talk crap.

I think here most people take what's written with a grain of salt, regardless of professed credentials. "Ignore" function is very useful too.

If memory serves, you create a thread like this with respect to users who get your goat, every few years, Simon, waging a campaign on multiple fronts to expunge the menace from the forum. It must be a special kind of karma to be reborn as a Dharmapala of Buddhist Forums :smile:

On the other hand, it's possible to create subfora open only to people with certain requirements, like being current and active students within certain lineages.
Hey Dan,
I didnt know we could do that. So for example I could start a Dzogchen Longde forum that couldnt be read by the general public? and only accessible to those that are students of Namkhai Norbu and have had that transmission?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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Dan74
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Re: Genuine advice sought.

Post by Dan74 »

Fa Dao wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:45 pm
Dan74 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:19 pm People have teachers and talk crap and people don't have teachers and talk crap.

I think here most people take what's written with a grain of salt, regardless of professed credentials. "Ignore" function is very useful too.

If memory serves, you create a thread like this with respect to users who get your goat, every few years, Simon, waging a campaign on multiple fronts to expunge the menace from the forum. It must be a special kind of karma to be reborn as a Dharmapala of Buddhist Forums :smile:

On the other hand, it's possible to create subfora open only to people with certain requirements, like being current and active students within certain lineages.
Hey Dan,
I didnt know we could do that. So for example I could start a Dzogchen Longde forum that couldnt be read by the general public? and only accessible to those that are students of Namkhai Norbu and have had that transmission?
I'm sure forum admins can do that.

There is of course an existing thread for the Dzogchen Community, but if there is a real reason why a closed one is needed (e.g. avoiding disclosing matters than are or should not be in the public domain) then I encourage you (and others) to lobby to that.
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