What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

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Grigoris
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What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by Grigoris »

https://newrepublic.com/article/156829/ ... n-peterson
So it was something of a surprise to learn, in early February, that Peterson had spent eight days in a medically induced coma at an unnamed clinic in Russia. Peterson’s daughter Mikhaila, a 28-year-old food blogger, posted a brief but dramatic video claiming that she and her father had traveled to Russia in early January seeking an unorthodox treatment for his physical dependence on the drug clonazepam. Dependency goes against the core tenets of Peterson’s philosophical brand: stoicism, self-reliance, the power of the will over circumstance and environment. “No one gets away with anything, ever, so take responsibility for your own life,” he admonished in his bestselling self-help book 12 Rules for Life.
How the mighty have fallen...
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by boda »

If I've got the story right, the stress of dealing with his wife's cancer diagnosis is what got him hooked on benzos, though he was hooked on them years before, supposedly to treat symptoms of an autoimmune disorder. Then he went on an all-meat diet for the autoimmune disorder. Then he went to Russia...

The truth is sometimes stranger than fiction, like with the Tiger King, but man, some seriously bad judgment going on.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by tobes »

Let's hope that a. he recovers swiftly and b. this weakens the bizarre amount of faith people put into his theories.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

I love how he keeps talking about how he "wasn't addicted just dependent". As an addiction counselor, that cracked me up, this is one of the first thing -actual addicts- will tell you, that it's simply a physical medical problem and can be cured by getting rid of the physical depdency. They also often buy into BS recovery treatments like this because they refuse to acknowledge the psychological and social aspects of their addiction related to their personal agency. That or they see these aspects as so secondary that they will just go away when the physical addiction is addressed. A lot of the time they are wrong.

By the time someone is truly dependent on a substance, they meet the often fuzzy definition of "addict" simply by the fallout (emotional, familial etc.) their use has caused and their continued use despite that fallout. I'm guessing there's a few skeletons lying around that closet in the Peterson family.

I'm sure it hurts his manly pride to admit truly struggling with addiction, but to me that makes anyone who has ever stood up at a 12 step meeting braver than him. Mr. manly man archetype can't admit his downfall, and that says volumes about who he is in this moment vs. who he claims he is.

I have great sympathy for what he's going through, but he's almost certainly being dishonest both with his fans, and more importantly with himself in order to protect this image and ideology. He could use this as a moment to promote real "spiritual" values that he is always harping about, but he will likely just protect his image and opinions.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Benzodiazepines have a reputation to take months to quit.

Good luck to him.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Don't want to be that guy, but lately it almost seems like he is under a STRONG influence of his daughter. There is something toxic in that family.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

At any rate, the mask is off, or at least slipping. His fans will naturally be completely oblivious to it. It could be a good thing, but it probably won't.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by tatpurusa »

Könchok Thrinley wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:26 am Don't want to be that guy, but lately it almost seems like he is under a STRONG influence of his daughter. There is something toxic in that family.
how is it toxic, if members of a family help each other and influence one another in the process?
I think schadenfreude, though sometimes feels extremely good, is way more toxic.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

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tatpurusa wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:59 am
Könchok Thrinley wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:26 am Don't want to be that guy, but lately it almost seems like he is under a STRONG influence of his daughter. There is something toxic in that family.
how is it toxic, if members of a family help each other and influence one another in the process?
I think schadenfreude, though sometimes feels extremely good, is way more toxic.
I really feel for the guy actually, this is my work wheelhouse for the last few years. I don't just buy his and his daughters self-marketing of their tragedy. The way he's dealing with it so far is pretty contrary to his whole "personal responsibility" line. It's a human common story and nothing to moralize or get judgy over, just a particular contrast coming from someone who has built a career on the things he has. I know very precisely what it looks like when people "take responsibility" over their addictive behavior, some of the bravest people I've met have done just that, he's doing the opposite so far - granted through his daughter it seems.

I wish the best for him. Ironically, part of what that "the best" will likely involve is him disclosing some personal vulnerability, something which simply doesn't fit his presentation at the time. in short, so far he is behaving like a lot of people who utterly fail in recovery, or who just manage to hide a return to their habit well - "functional addicts" as they sometimes say. I could be totally off base, but that's my read.

Did he even admit he was taking Benzos for his anxiety before this? I doubt that would ingratiate him much to most of his fans.

BTW, if someone goes to any kind of detox for these kinds of drugs and has to be on anti-seizure meds (benzos are one of the two things with possibly deadly withdrawals, the other being alcohol), they likely had a pretty significant habit, not some mild habituation to the drug.

I've also never heard to someone prescribing Klonopin over an allergic food reaction, and frankly that sounds like a very BS way of simply saying one has issues with anxiety and panic.

Maybe he will surprise me in the long run.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by PeterC »

tatpurusa wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:59 am
Könchok Thrinley wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:26 am Don't want to be that guy, but lately it almost seems like he is under a STRONG influence of his daughter. There is something toxic in that family.
how is it toxic, if members of a family help each other and influence one another in the process?
I think schadenfreude, though sometimes feels extremely good, is way more toxic.
I dislike the word ‘toxic’ - I’m not sure what it means - but it seems that he took the advice of his daughter, who has no medical qualifications, to go on a diet consisting solely of meat, salt and water for over a year; and that she was a major influence in putting him into a highly dangerous withdrawal treatment in a country not exactly known for strong medical ethics; and that all her public commentary on it seems to justify this course of action in emotive terms, saying that it’s strong, brave, etc. This doesn’t seem to be the best way to manage one’s healthcare decision making.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by Brunelleschi »

Mocking someone who's fallen into addiction because his wife is terminally ill with cancer - we're Buddhists. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by Grigoris »

Brunelleschi wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am Mocking someone who's fallen into addiction because his wife is terminally ill with cancer - we're Buddhists. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Recommending introspection to a person that has been hiding from "himself" through benzo abuse and trying to fool others to follow his failed example, recommending proper medical treatment because the person is currently putting his life in danger by relying on unqualified quacks - we're Buddhists. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

tatpurusa wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:59 am how is it toxic, if members of a family help each other and influence one another in the process?
I think schadenfreude, though sometimes feels extremely good, is way more toxic.
How is what I wrote a schadenfreude?

Not gonna lie, I find the guy to be ridiculous, a scam and a shitty person. But what he goes through must be a hell. I have my own small experience with addiction (actually it would be best described as mild habituation :lol: ) and it just sucks all the way. So what do I mean by their family being toxic? The way his daughter (who appears to be just as scammy as her father) took over and is now Jordan Peterson spoke person. Not to mention that it might have been here decision to make him go to effin Russia of all places to deal with his addiction. Yes, Russia that is "so famous" for the "quality" of their health care. Also the whole meat diet thing seems to be her idea. Also I don't buy the whole story. At least parts of it are a face saving lie.

At this point I am actually worried for his health and wonder if he actually pulled out of his addiction without getting some serious damage.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by tatpurusa »

PeterC wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:02 am I dislike the word ‘toxic’ - I’m not sure what it means - but it seems that he took the advice of his daughter, who has no medical qualifications, to go on a diet consisting solely of meat, salt and water for over a year;
She managed thereby to get symptom-free from some "uncurable" diseases. Had she tried to cure herself by a vegan diet, even surely failing, she would be celebrated as a hero by many on these boards.
and that she was a major influence in putting him into a highly dangerous withdrawal treatment in a country not exactly known for strong medical ethics;
The greatest failure of him was trusting even for a second in the products and "medical " or whatever ethics of "Big Pharma", and relying on their phychopharmaceutical "medicine". This decision destroyed him and medical treatments in Canada and the US were not able to help him. What actually helped him was the treatment in Russia.
Russian science and medicine is not at all that bad as your preferred Russophobes would like to have you think.
I personally would trust them much more than the corrupt-to-the-core US system.
This doesn’t seem to be the best way to manage one’s healthcare decision making
Trusting a healthcare system based on and dominated by multinational private companies and their private interests with ethics of any kind is not the best way to manage one's healthcare decision making.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by PSM »

tatpurusa wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:35 am The greatest failure of him was trusting even for a second in the products and "medical " or whatever ethics of "Big Pharma", and relying on their phychopharmaceutical "medicine". This decision destroyed him and medical treatments in Canada and the US were not able to help him.
I agree. I'll probably regret sharing this, but I made a similar terrible decision and took benzodiazepines as prescribed by a GP for a movement disorder. I trusted the doctors and didn't know a thing about the possible consequences - the exact situation JBP was also in, from what I understand. I got off them after a few years, but the damage they can do is incredible. I can't really remember much from the years I was on them. Can't even remember how long, exactly, with looking at paperwork. I had to deal with it all myself, and designed the taper etc. myself using the Ashton method. The doctor who started me on them was very prescription happy, and I wonder how many others are screwed up with these drugs thanks to people like him.

It all turned out to be an issue to do with trauma - I didn't even need any medication to fix myself up in the end, which only makes tatpurusa's point more valid.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by Brunelleschi »

Grigoris wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:13 am
Brunelleschi wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:33 am Mocking someone who's fallen into addiction because his wife is terminally ill with cancer - we're Buddhists. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Recommending introspection to a person that has been hiding from "himself" through benzo abuse and trying to fool others to follow his failed example, recommending proper medical treatment because the person is currently putting his life in danger by relying on unqualified quacks - we're Buddhists. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Oh, come on. You're politically very much to the left so you don't like Peterson. Which is fine - he doesn't know much anything about politics and especially not marxism, see his debate with Zizek. That's cool I guess, Peterson should stick to what he knows something about which is clinical psychology.

We all have our karma. Peterson doesn't have the karma to have come in contact with meditation or Buddhist teachings. So, not much help there.

Anyways, it's not a big deal. Have a good day. :thumbsup:
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by narhwal90 »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:36 am
tatpurusa wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:59 am
Könchok Thrinley wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:26 am Don't want to be that guy, but lately it almost seems like he is under a STRONG influence of his daughter. There is something toxic in that family.
how is it toxic, if members of a family help each other and influence one another in the process?
I think schadenfreude, though sometimes feels extremely good, is way more toxic.
I really feel for the guy actually, this is my work wheelhouse for the last few years. I don't just buy his and his daughters self-marketing of their tragedy. The way he's dealing with it so far is pretty contrary to his whole "personal responsibility" line. It's a human common story and nothing to moralize or get judgy over, just a particular contrast coming from someone who has built a career on the things he has. I know very precisely what it looks like when people "take responsibility" over their addictive behavior, some of the bravest people I've met have done just that, he's doing the opposite so far - granted through his daughter it seems.

I wish the best for him. Ironically, part of what that "the best" will likely involve is him disclosing some personal vulnerability, something which simply doesn't fit his presentation at the time. in short, so far he is behaving like a lot of people who utterly fail in recovery, or who just manage to hide a return to their habit well - "functional addicts" as they sometimes say. I could be totally off base, but that's my read.

Did he even admit he was taking Benzos for his anxiety before this? I doubt that would ingratiate him much to most of his fans.

BTW, if someone goes to any kind of detox for these kinds of drugs and has to be on anti-seizure meds (benzos are one of the two things with possibly deadly withdrawals, the other being alcohol), they likely had a pretty significant habit, not some mild habituation to the drug.

I've also never heard to someone prescribing Klonopin over an allergic food reaction, and frankly that sounds like a very BS way of simply saying one has issues with anxiety and panic.

Maybe he will surprise me in the long run.
Sounds to me like another of the usual stories of addiction- all the reasons and justifications and explanations till the undeniable medical events start happening, themselves justified and so on. Given some of the detox methods the early AA folks tried the medically induced coma thing doesn't sound implausible, just ignorant dangerous and primitive. Now that he's (maybe) cleaned up time will tell if he's still an addict in denial or not. I agree that this story doesn't sound like recovery yet. Having talked with and hung out with lots of recovered addicts & alcoholics, I wouldn't wish addiction on anyone for any reason & the prospect of people taking pleasure in another's is really sad.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by PeterC »

tatpurusa wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:35 am
PeterC wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:02 am I dislike the word ‘toxic’ - I’m not sure what it means - but it seems that he took the advice of his daughter, who has no medical qualifications, to go on a diet consisting solely of meat, salt and water for over a year;
She managed thereby to get symptom-free from some "uncurable" diseases.
And you know that how? You’re just going on what she said

You’re probably going to say...how do you know she didn’t? Well, quite apart from the issue that you can’t prove a negative proposition, you are the one claiming that someone with no medical training or qualifications, someone who doesn’t even have any qualifications as a nutritionist, someone who’s sole qualification is being an instagram influencer, cured “incurable” diseases. So I think the burden of proof for this remarkable claim is on you.
Had she tried to cure herself by a vegan diet, even surely failing, she would be celebrated as a hero by many on these boards.
Why? A lot of people here eat meat. I think you’re projecting a bit
and that she was a major influence in putting him into a highly dangerous withdrawal treatment in a country not exactly known for strong medical ethics;
The greatest failure of him was trusting even for a second in the products and "medical " or whatever ethics of "Big Pharma", and relying on their phychopharmaceutical "medicine". This decision destroyed him and medical treatments in Canada and the US were not able to help him.
And you know that how? What medical training do you have? When did you examine him?
What actually helped him was the treatment in Russia.
And you know that how? What information are you relying on?
Russian science and medicine is not at all that bad as your preferred Russophobes would like to have you think.
I personally would trust them much more than the corrupt-to-the-core US system.
Have you asked many Russians their opinion on that?
Also how is the US relevant? He’s Canadian. The Canadian healthcare system is pretty good.
This doesn’t seem to be the best way to manage one’s healthcare decision making
Trusting a healthcare system based on and dominated by multinational private companies and their private interests with ethics of any kind is not the best way to manage one's healthcare decision making.
Uh...that’s not a fair description of Canada. It’s a public system, completely different from the US.
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Re: What happened to Jordan Peterson?;

Post by Grigoris »

Brunelleschi wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:21 amOh, come on. You're politically very much to the left so you don't like Peterson.
I don't like Peterson because he talks complete and utter unfounded and unsupported bullshit. I also don't like Zizek for, more or less, the same reason.
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Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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