Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
What are you reading Dan? Prominent Tories deny anthropogenic climate change on a daily basis! Including half of Boris’s cabinet and most of the Tory press...
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
Peron's government was a fascist government. But he, like Mussolini (and unlike Hitler) began his political career on the left. Borges, to his credit, was horrified by Fascism and was vocal about. He had a a variety of political positions, and his identification with conservatism was as a classical liberal. But today most conservatives hew to Burke, rather than Locke and Smith.
But I am talking about the kind of Anglo American conservatism we see today: reflected in punitive austerity measures, the abandonment of social safety nets, climate change denialism, and so on.
I definitely think this is more prevalent on the right than on the left. And in fact, those unions in Poland and Australia are fighting for a common good, just one that is short-sighted.Look at the long-standing opposition to coal-mining reduction in Poland or reduction in native timbers logging in Australia. In both cases by left-wing unions. It's not surprising really, since as you imply, it is human nature to look after our own livelihood. But you seem to suggest that this is prevalent on the Right, while the Left selflessly fight for the common good.
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
Aye. Boris is Trump’s mini-me.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
While I do not want to assume too much I do have to tell you that in case of Poland for example the thing with coal mines is bit complicated and applying your US-UK political paradigm won't work.
You do have to realize that first of all the american political standards are kinda messed up. Here in central Europe and especially countries that were communist, things are really different. Here universal healthcare and unions are the normal standard. The reason why coalminers are against closing coal mines, are of course because of their jobs, but also here unions can be more conservative (not the usa messed up conservative) and traditional than socialist. In post-communist countries communism and socialism is the "conservative" ideology, or at least how it is represented by communist parties, or labour unions. The real left here is just as dead as everywhere else basically.
You do have to realize that first of all the american political standards are kinda messed up. Here in central Europe and especially countries that were communist, things are really different. Here universal healthcare and unions are the normal standard. The reason why coalminers are against closing coal mines, are of course because of their jobs, but also here unions can be more conservative (not the usa messed up conservative) and traditional than socialist. In post-communist countries communism and socialism is the "conservative" ideology, or at least how it is represented by communist parties, or labour unions. The real left here is just as dead as everywhere else basically.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
Yup.Könchok Thrinley wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:52 pm
You do have to realize that first of all the american political standards are kinda messed up. Here in central Europe and especially countries that were communist, things are really different. Here universal healthcare and unions are the normal standard.
That is true of Solidarity, certainly.The reason why coalminers are against closing coal mines, are of course because of their jobs, but also here unions can be more conservative (not the usa messed up conservative) and traditional than socialist.
Yup. Polish Gvt. is right wing, and once the UK sells off their national health, you can expect other countries to do the same, though of course, not every EU country has a national health, like Germany for example.In post-communist countries communism and socialism is the "conservative" ideology, or at least how it is represented by communist parties, or labour unions. The real left here is just as dead as everywhere else basically.
- Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
That is probable unfortunately. In some cases like here in Czech Republic, the national health system will most probably collapse due to not getting enough attention and money from the state.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
Problem is socialized medicine works incredibly well Malcolm. I worked in hospitals for years. Few things make Canadians violent. Refusing them care was incredibly dangerous in my experience. Whoever takes it away is a dead man.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:18 pmYup.Könchok Thrinley wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:52 pm
You do have to realize that first of all the american political standards are kinda messed up. Here in central Europe and especially countries that were communist, things are really different. Here universal healthcare and unions are the normal standard.
That is true of Solidarity, certainly.The reason why coalminers are against closing coal mines, are of course because of their jobs, but also here unions can be more conservative (not the usa messed up conservative) and traditional than socialist.
Yup. Polish Gvt. is right wing, and once the UK sells off their national health, you can expect other countries to do the same, though of course, not every EU country has a national health, like Germany for example.In post-communist countries communism and socialism is the "conservative" ideology, or at least how it is represented by communist parties, or labour unions. The real left here is just as dead as everywhere else basically.
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
Yes, which is why I support Sanders.
Maybe. England is different than Canada: fear of Boris was not enough to keep people from voting him in. NHS is on the chopping block soon, you can bet.I worked in hospitals for years. Few things make Canadians violent. Refusing them care was incredibly dangerous in my experience. Whoever takes it away is a dead man.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nh ... 41881.html
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Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
There have been many discussions where slurs and offensive remarks aren't said and the poster still ends of getting censored and banned. It's impossible to have a discussion with you people without someone getting butthurt and easily offended.Queequeg wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:48 pmStop exaggerating. No one has ever been banned for expressing pro-life or pro traditional marriage views. They get banned for posting slurs and other offensive remarks.ford_truckin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:37 pm Best not to express your views too openly if you happen to be a conservative. A pro-life, pro traditional marriage stance will get you banned fast even though you can find support for these viewpoints in Buddhist texts.
Talk about snowflakes.
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Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
I wasn't even talking about Trump. Talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:08 pmActually, what gets you banned is certain ways of behaving, not certain views. It's not our fault that a portion (though by no means all) of the more vocal right wing users can't abide by the ToS.ford_truckin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:37 pmAccording to Dharmawheel, yes. Best not to express your views too openly if you happen to be a conservative. A pro-life, pro traditional marriage stance will get you banned fast even though you can find support for these viewpoints in Buddhist texts. Western Buddhism is very different from traditional Buddhism.Blackthorne wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:52 am From the reading I've done and the few practicing Buddhists I know, I would gather that Buddhism leans to the right socially/politically, but online I see a lot 'hate' toward conservative points of view.
Does Buddhism require you to be a liberal?
Thanks
Also there are plenty of fairly "liberal" traditional Buddhists. I hang out around Tibetans pretty regularly, they have some views that might be considered 'conservative' (euthanasia and abortion come to mind), but to a one they all seem to dislike Donald Trump and hold a number of views that I'm sure would qualify them as "libtards" in someone's eyes. So yeah, neither your political views nor mine have ownership over "traditional" Buddhism. As I mentioned, plenty of Asian "cultural conservatives" would not pass the insane test of what it takes to be conservative in Trumperica anyway.
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Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
Don't talk to me that way.ford_truckin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:58 amI wasn't even talking about Trump. Talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:08 pmActually, what gets you banned is certain ways of behaving, not certain views. It's not our fault that a portion (though by no means all) of the more vocal right wing users can't abide by the ToS.ford_truckin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:37 pm
According to Dharmawheel, yes. Best not to express your views too openly if you happen to be a conservative. A pro-life, pro traditional marriage stance will get you banned fast even though you can find support for these viewpoints in Buddhist texts. Western Buddhism is very different from traditional Buddhism.
Also there are plenty of fairly "liberal" traditional Buddhists. I hang out around Tibetans pretty regularly, they have some views that might be considered 'conservative' (euthanasia and abortion come to mind), but to a one they all seem to dislike Donald Trump and hold a number of views that I'm sure would qualify them as "libtards" in someone's eyes. So yeah, neither your political views nor mine have ownership over "traditional" Buddhism. As I mentioned, plenty of Asian "cultural conservatives" would not pass the insane test of what it takes to be conservative in Trumperica anyway.
I just mentioned Trump because it's a good litmus test.
It's not specifically so much about Trump, but how the notion of all traditional Buddhists all being the same as an American conservative is total nonsense, which it is. It makes me curious about your own extensive experiences with "traditional Buddhists", who your teacher is, on what authority your claims about Traditional vs. Western Buddhism rest.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
Honestly I don't see much difference. I was in the army when Obama started "the surge" and started vaporizing civvies with drones and 2000lb bombs. I'm pretty sure the vaporized children don't see much nuance either. One set of elites thinks making it is having a Ted Talk and the other thinks it's owning a fancy boat. You both suck and neither follow Buddhist principles.
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Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
This is true, but Trump has actually escalated Obama era policies on this stuff, who in turn escalated Bush II policies, etc. etc.Nemo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:15 am Honestly I don't see much difference. I was in the army when Obama started "the surge" and started vaporizing civvies with drones and 2000lb bombs. I'm pretty sure the vaporized children don't see much nuance either. One set of elites thinks making it is having a Ted Talk and the other thinks it's owning a fancy boat. You both suck and neither follow Buddhist principles.
Its true Democrats are pretty good warmongers generally speaking, but the Republicans edge them out with somewhat more direct connections to the arms industry.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
It looks like old money thinking new money is uncouth. Obama committed the same crimes. He also arrogantly dismissed Trump publicly as a filthy peasant with money. The Trumpian perspective is the real elite is money. They seem to have a point and the properly educated and cultured whose hierarchies are being dismantled are losing their minds. It literally makes no difference to the bottom 50%. Life for them just gets harder every year. This is a skirmish between 2 factions of an utterly corrupt ruling class. I suspect if Bernie is blocked again Trump will be guaranteed a second term.
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Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
Sadly, I think your analysis is probably pretty accurate.Nemo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:44 am It looks like old money thinking new money is uncouth. Obama committed the same crimes. He also arrogantly dismissed Trump publicly as a filthy peasant with money. The Trumpian perspective is the real elite is money. They seem to have a point and the properly educated and cultured whose hierarchies are being dismantled are losing their minds. It literally makes no difference to the bottom 50%. Life for them just gets harder every year. This is a skirmish between 2 factions of an utterly corrupt ruling class. I suspect if Bernie is blocked again Trump will be guaranteed a second term.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
Buddhism is about how to break out of samsara, which is based on a wrong perception of reality. Politics [conservatives and liberals] is about how to settle in samsara comfortably. All we {as Buddhists} can do is choose the lesser evil in each case. By evil in Buddhism we mean everything that prevents the correct perception of reality {including political reality}. In politics, it is a lie that hinders the correct perception of social reality. Therefore, Buddhists should choose those politicians who lie less {distort reality} regardless of whether they are conservatives or liberals. (honesty is the best policy}Blackthorne wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:52 am From the reading I've done and the few practicing Buddhists I know, I would gather that Buddhism leans to the right socially/politically, but online I see a lot 'hate' toward conservative points of view.
Does Buddhism require you to be a liberal?
Thanks
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Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
The late Roger Scruton wrote a book about environmentalism.
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
The late Sir Roger Scruton was not a neocon.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Does Buddhism Require You To Be a Liberal?
He also took money from the tobacco industry to publish articles about how regulating smoking infringed on human rights. So I’m not sure I’ll be accepting his opinions at face valuehumble.student wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:45 amThe late Roger Scruton wrote a book about environmentalism.