OCD

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Ruhan
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Re: OCD

Post by Ruhan »

Virgo wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:33 pm Relax and ignore the intrusive thoughts. I never woulda' thought of that.

Virgo
if it's sarcasm, I'm sorry, but I'm not a prophet and I don't have big revelations to give. I'm not even a doctor, not even a church doctor. I therefore believe you have the wrong person and I find this sarcasm a little out of place, but maybe you woke up badly :D
if instead it is not sarcasm and I misunderstood, I apologize for this premise and for the clarification that will be followed. :)

I limited myself to bringing what is my very humble experience on the problem, which is the fact that the Buddhist approach helps to understand how to really apply what you (maybe sarcastically) call "relax and ignore intrusive thoughts". Does everyone know that this should be done? I guess so. Do all methods or mind settings help achieve that goal? No. Buddhism helps me. Other will help you.

Is it probable that this is brought about by the very slight form of my intrusive thoughts compared to yours (which I think is more intrusive and radical)? Probable. I can speak for myself, and not for others, precisely because I am not a doctor. :D

:hi:
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: OCD

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Ignoring intrusive thoughts is not the same as simply accepting them and letting them be. Ignoring them tends to mean trying not to look directly at them, which cab subtly turn into avoidance, which of course tends to increase their impact.

https://drmartinseif.com/intrusive-thoughts/

Posting this again because this gentleman as written a very good book on intrusive thoughts, and some of the advice on the website covers the very subjects we are talking about here.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Ruhan
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Re: OCD

Post by Ruhan »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:33 pm Ignoring intrusive thoughts is not the same as simply accepting them and letting them be. Ignoring them tends to mean trying not to look directly at them, which cab subtly turn into avoidance, which of course tends to increase their impact.

https://drmartinseif.com/intrusive-thoughts/

Posting this again because this gentleman as written a very good book on intrusive thoughts, and some of the advice on the website covers the very subjects we are talking about here.
It seems to me that it is a simple use of different words to indicate the same thing.

Or maybe what works for me doesn't work in less mild cases.

By "ignoring intrusive thoughts" I meant the simple act of letting the moment of anxiety cool off by letting time pass. In my experience this weakens the intrusive thinking and also helps to accept the possible future repetition. Train to see that as nothing happened last time (despite not having done what he told you) so nothing will happen the next time either.

This certainly means imposing oneself to live the chaotic sea of anxiety of the moment without trying to intervene following the impulse to find a solution with the rites (mild or serious) that have been structured over time. It is not simple and immediate, of course. And I do not exclude that this applies only in certain cases and not others (such as tics etc)

I didn't mean - instead - to ignore something like "try to drive them out, actively avoid them"; this is part of that series of actions that do nothing but expand its permanence, given that as long as you try to counter it, you keep thinking about it and continue to nurture its presence.

For the rest I am not a doctor so what is needed in my case, maybe not needed in different cases or quantitatively stronger cases.
Last edited by Ruhan on Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: OCD

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Ruhan wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:17 am The a-discursiveness of Buddhahood is also an operational and practical criterion; as if to say: you do not overcome these obsessions and graspings with reasoning or words. No one convinces an obsessive compulsive with reasoning to be less obsessive compulsive.

This setting doesn't fix OCD by itself, of course. Or rather, not entirely. But it helps to understand that when an intrusive thought arises it is false that it will remain afterwards and if you don't complete it it will be worse. It is a deception of the illusion of permanence. That thought will burn like everything else. This can help, even gradually, to avoid facing that thought to "reason with him" or to refute it with reason. This only increase its permanence. Just let it burn. You don't have to do anything: it burns and consumes by itself. Then of course, sometimes an obsessive compulsive will not be able to resist, but this helps a lot.
I had written this response earlier today and decided not to reply. I figured I would see how well silence would explain this one. It seems perhaps appropriate.

Thank You Ruhan for sharing this. I understand the above and agree from the perspective of a person developing the capacity to quell their inner narrative in precursory practice. I like to think of it as the practice of denying the inner narrator a quite minded practice. However for some levels of mental illness to get to such a place is difficult and this may be a bit of an understatement based on severity of illness.

I practice Nichiren Buddhism. Perhaps you have a familiarity.

One of the things I noticed is how chanting daimoku and gongyo have really impacted my capacity to enter quite minded practice. There was a time when there was just too much "noise" for me to even consider meditation. To pose such a concept as the only way, a cruelty.

It is very hard to articulate the impact this practice has on the mind. There is a statement in his writings where Nichiren says something along the lines of “and mugwort grows straight in a field of hemp". The basic meaning is the meandering plant's growth is straightened in a field of plants that grow straight. for what it worth there is scientific studies that have measured the difference in mind activity meditation and chanting compared to normal states and they both have some similar correlating activity.

I say this because through the use of words (albeit foreign) I was able to detach from the active part of my mind that is dominated by these disorders and come to engage the parts that don't. Quietude wasn't a concept that I could even hold in my mind in theory. It was simply that far away. I had exhausted tradition and alternative therapies and treatments. Chanting and reciting gongyo gave me a method to inject the teachings into my mind stream regardless of my inability to shut the racing mind that would be identified as "self".

For me there is a brilliant economy of effort than manifests in innumerable ways. It has allowed me to become unconditioned (to a point) to the very biological reactions themselves. For example if my body signals intense anxiety with/without a cue I understand it as such and the bias in imparts becomes more negligible over time. It just is. The very same with some intense life time traumas.

I do think that as one starts to examine their own mind they identify these aspects of “self” through their “appearance”. The self often appears compulsive and obsessive. The more intimate one becomes with one’s own thought processes the more magnified these things can appear. So I understand.

Many years ago my cousin tried to say she feels <mental disorder> too sometimes. She has a schizophrenic son. She never said she feels schizophrenic too sometimes. Because I know her well I was not offended.

The boards here have been very compassion and honest. A number of people have reached out offering support. While I have had to work through several co-morbidities all things considered I am not hampered by them. At least not in the way they might be reasonable interpreted.
This is one reason I have been so obstinate about saying Buddhism has a tremendous benefit to mental health if practiced over the term. I think in this way appeal is huge because it needs to have a sustainable aspect. So I am not trying to promote a specific path or ideology. Just trying to inspire hope for those who suffer and to dispel the doubt in the buddha’s wisdom and equanimity.

I know that this simple practice was capable of providing refuge when I couldn’t find it outside of myself.

:anjali: Hope this finds you well.
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Re: OCD

Post by Ruhan »

tkp67 wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:13 pm .However for some levels of mental illness to get to such a place is difficult and this may be a bit of an understatement based on severity of illness.
You are absolutely right. In fact, I should have specified that I speak from the point of view of those who still have mild forms of "obsessions", things that can be dealt with in the way I have described (at least for me). There are cases where my method would probably lead to nothing or worsening. I apologize to anyone who thought I wanted to give general advice. I should have specified that it was a "testimony".
I practice Nichiren Buddhism. Perhaps you have a familiarity.
I know it from outside. And it is very interesting for me to read from a Nichiren practitioner how this practice works. What you write about the recitation of foreign words I totally understand and it is also the reason why I am against the translation of the liturgy: the alienating effect creates a sense of relaxation and non-thought.

I don't know whether to call myself a practitioner. I am close to Ch'an / Zen / Seon and Tiantai / Tendai. But many many years ago in cases of anxiety I sometimes trivially recited "our father" (although I was not a believer) and this totally automatic formula helped me not to think. Recently (for some years now) I have verified this with the mantra contained in the heart sutra.


I do think that as one starts to examine their own mind they identify these aspects of “self” through their “appearance”. The self often appears compulsive and obsessive. The more intimate one becomes with one’s own thought processes the more magnified these things can appear. So I understand.
I understand. The sense of identity is obsessive (at least potentially) in itself, since it is based on the sense of permanence and the hope of permanence, on grasping to something, trying to set it with certainty.

Buddhism helps at least to have an entire tradition that unmasks this mechanism and teaches practical methods to overcome it. Sometimes Buddhism is not enough, but it can be a valid accompaniment.

Thank you for your testimony! :)
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Re: OCD

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Ruhan wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:52 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:33 pm Ignoring intrusive thoughts is not the same as simply accepting them and letting them be. Ignoring them tends to mean trying not to look directly at them, which cab subtly turn into avoidance, which of course tends to increase their impact.

https://drmartinseif.com/intrusive-thoughts/

Posting this again because this gentleman as written a very good book on intrusive thoughts, and some of the advice on the website covers the very subjects we are talking about here.
It seems to me that it is a simple use of different words to indicate the same thing.

Or maybe what works for me doesn't work in less mild cases.

By "ignoring intrusive thoughts" I meant the simple act of letting the moment of anxiety cool off by letting time pass. In my experience this weakens the intrusive thinking and also helps to accept the possible future repetition. Train to see that as nothing happened last time (despite not having done what he told you) so nothing will happen the next time either.

This certainly means imposing oneself to live the chaotic sea of anxiety of the moment without trying to intervene following the impulse to find a solution with the rites (mild or serious) that have been structured over time. It is not simple and immediate, of course. And I do not exclude that this applies only in certain cases and not others (such as tics etc)

I didn't mean - instead - to ignore something like "try to drive them out, actively avoid them"; this is part of that series of actions that do nothing but expand its permanence, given that as long as you try to counter it, you keep thinking about it and continue to nurture its presence.

For the rest I am not a doctor so what is needed in my case, maybe not needed in different cases or quantitatively stronger cases.
No offense intended here, but your language around this stuff is somewhat imprecise, and could be interpreted all sorts of ways.

Typically people either use terms from Western Psychology, Buddhism or both when talking about this kind of thing. You are pretty much using your own vocabulary, which (I think) is probably why people are misunderstanding you.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: OCD

Post by Ruhan »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:03 am
Ruhan wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:52 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:33 pm Ignoring intrusive thoughts is not the same as simply accepting them and letting them be. Ignoring them tends to mean trying not to look directly at them, which cab subtly turn into avoidance, which of course tends to increase their impact.

https://drmartinseif.com/intrusive-thoughts/

Posting this again because this gentleman as written a very good book on intrusive thoughts, and some of the advice on the website covers the very subjects we are talking about here.
It seems to me that it is a simple use of different words to indicate the same thing.

Or maybe what works for me doesn't work in less mild cases.

By "ignoring intrusive thoughts" I meant the simple act of letting the moment of anxiety cool off by letting time pass. In my experience this weakens the intrusive thinking and also helps to accept the possible future repetition. Train to see that as nothing happened last time (despite not having done what he told you) so nothing will happen the next time either.

This certainly means imposing oneself to live the chaotic sea of anxiety of the moment without trying to intervene following the impulse to find a solution with the rites (mild or serious) that have been structured over time. It is not simple and immediate, of course. And I do not exclude that this applies only in certain cases and not others (such as tics etc)

I didn't mean - instead - to ignore something like "try to drive them out, actively avoid them"; this is part of that series of actions that do nothing but expand its permanence, given that as long as you try to counter it, you keep thinking about it and continue to nurture its presence.

For the rest I am not a doctor so what is needed in my case, maybe not needed in different cases or quantitatively stronger cases.
No offense intended here, but your language around this stuff is somewhat imprecise, and could be interpreted all sorts of ways.

Typically people either use terms from Western Psychology, Buddhism or both when talking about this kind of thing. You are pretty much using your own vocabulary, which (I think) is probably why people are misunderstanding you.
No offense, don't worry, I can understand, but I must also say that I think there is a general misunderstanding on your part here (probably also favored by my having spoken in general) about my intentions.

I do not have a western psychological background and it also seemed out of place to bring here any language linked to this or that Buddhist tradition. I say it seemed out of place, but I learn now that this is common practice in this section. I thought that the debate here was the least "religious" possible and I adapted as I could. My mistake.

Secondly, my background is philosophical and historical; these issues do not concern the sphere of what I usually deal with, so I do not - frankly - have the right tools to tackle a debate on the OCD.

Thirdly (and this is the main point) I have never wanted to make any scientific, technical or universally valid contribution, but only bring a personal testimony and not as an expert on the subject. You say I would have been misunderstood because of my non-technical language; it seems to me that I was misunderstood - rather - due to the fact that I did not immediately clarify that mine were simple personal testimonies(of the same mood as those of tkp67): this is how it works for me. For the others I don't know. I do not claim to provide any technically effective method.
In order to be misunderstood for my non-technical language I would have had to claim to give a technical opinion; claim never had, but perhaps I have not disclosed this properly and I apologize.

Fourth, it could also be that many terms are unclear because English is not my language and I really have no idea what terms you usually use to refer to Buddhist concepts such as "grasping"(upadana) or "not thinking"(the Dogen's "hishiryo") or "sense of identity."(Atman, as defined by Candrakīrti, as sense of intrinsic identity and subsistence - or in greek "hypostasis"; or in philosophycal ontology: diachronic and synchronic identity) as well as the expression "cool off "(weakening/burning of the karmic seeds - Bija - accumulated in Alaya consciousness; if you continue giving substance to that seed, you will produce others like it etc.) which in my language makes perfect sense(it's a way of saying: like when a boiling pot is left to cool), but I can't render it in English. As well as the "nourishing his presence" which I could render with "load with further reality", but it is a translation; I don't know what terms you English speakers consider technical. In my language is used the term "rimuginio"( "rumination"?). Below I will try to give some coordinates of what (certainly incompletely) I know about rumination from a technical point of view (as a simple reader).
As Borkovec (1990) argues, rumination takes shape as a continuous mental repetition, sometimes associated with obsessive states, of the fear of irreversible damage without effective coping or resolution plans.

Rumination, according to Mathews (1990), is made possible by the presence in long-term memory of negative and threatening information, by selective attention (attentional bias) towards threatening perceptions and emotions and by states of hypervigilance.

Alway Mathews (1990) argues that this is made possible by the presence in long-term memory of negative, threatening information, but what triggers the rumination is the presence of selective attention (produced by attentional biases) towards perceptions, threatening emotions similar to those stored by memory, as well as by states of hypervigilance. Also Mathews seems to have shown together with Mc Leod (1988) in a study on anxious subjects, that hypervigilance is antecedent and that information processing biases act as powerful maintenance factors, in the sense that they select and isolate potential threats in the environment and continually put them under the attention of the subject already hypervigilable in itself.

As Sassaroli and Ruggiero (2003) have illustrated, there are various types of rumination. When I talk about not focusing attention on intrusive thinking and not trying to find solutions or trying to reach a state of well-being again, I am referring in part to "rumination as a way of solving problems". It is defined by Sassaroli and Ruggiero (2003) as the illusion that rumination is a type of thought that produces solutions. In reality, no real solution is opposed to the feared threat and therefore the threat (supposed) remains and with it the rumination that does nothing but fix the attention even more on the threat itself (through the above biases).

Now: this is specially true for the GAD (i think), but in a sense it is also true for the OCD; the difference - as long as I'm not mistaken - is that the obsessive suffers the intrusion of a thought suddenly during even normal activities and implements compulsions to reduce the state of anxiety caused by those intrusive thoughts. While the GAD provides (as long as I'm not wrong) a state of semi-constant rumination following a thought that was first small and then bigger and bigger(but maybe it also applies to OCD? I do not know).

Now, I don't know how it works for others, but I have experience with obsessions of contamination and obsessions of damage. The answer to these is varied: rumination when they appear or - shorter way - if possible, the implementation of compulsive rituals (washing hands for example, or trying to verify that everything is well in a more or less ritualized way) .
What I have verified (but I do not know if it is true for others since I am not an expert and what little I know, I know because I am self-taught what little is enough) is that the avoiding of rumination as well as the implementation of the rites, it is true that in the short term it does not at all placate the state of anxiety derived from intrusive thoughts, but in the long term it prevents them from growing in power or even allows them to decrease their strength when they arise again.
I link this to karmic seeds(Bija) and the fact that the more they are replanted (through compulsive rituals and rumination) the more similar seeds will continue to perpetuate. The seeds in this case are - basically - those negative information stored in memory. While the attentional bias and the state of hypervigilance could be produced (in a comparison I don't know how risky) by the Manas consciousness, since the state of hypervigilance, as well as the attentional biases, would be meaningless without considering oneself as a different self from the objective environment. Manas runs after Alaya by selecting in the flow of dharmas those dharmas similar to the seeds deposited in Alaya (so I explain attentional bias to myself) and by particularizing general hyper-vigilance.

For this reason Buddhism has helped me to better discern the issue (FOR ME) and to fight against intolerance towards uncertainty (impermanence).

I do not doubt that this can only make sense in my specific case.

I know well that it is a banal truth that the more you give rise to rites etc the more it enhances the subsequent attention and the power of obsessions, but Buddhism has helped me to give a practical and concrete meaning, as well as an approach, to this truth yes trivial, but which I did not know (many years ago) how to implement.

p.s. The examples I have given as rituals are general; do not exhaust my experience in this regard.



Having said all this and since it seems impossible for me to communicate credibly (due to my limitations as a non-native speaker), I leave you to your debate hoping not to have broken it.

:hi:
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Re: OCD

Post by Ayu »

Yes, in such topics one cannot emphasize enough that the own view is only an offer and it must not be the ultimate truth.
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Re: OCD

Post by Ruhan »

Ayu wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:02 am Yes, in such topics one cannot emphasize enough that the own view is only an offer and it must not be the ultimate truth.

I apologize then. The first post that starts this topic said:
Rick wrote: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:19 pm I'm not interested in advice or (God forbid!) diagnosis (been there, had that!) ... rather in comparing notes with other OCDers, specifically in terms of how it affects your dharma study, meditation, etc.
And so I took it - probably wrong - for granted. My mistake, I'm sorry. :)
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Re: OCD

Post by tkp67 »

I treasure dialog regarding these things for several reasons. I sense the compassion and desire to express it.

To understand the differentials of the mind is most difficult under normal circumstances. To understand ones where cultures, backgrounds and experience are varied makes it much more difficult. Add the internet dynamic and people might say it isn't possible.

To make these efforts to understand such difference in a compassionate manner is the golden road. These things are in their very nature difficult so expecting it to be without difficulty isn't a reasonable expectation.

I have noticed in my own mind none of these things are mutually exclusive. That is when my physiology is relatively calm and I am left simply to my unbiased thoughts this advice to seeking cessation of rising thoughts may be readily available when I get there.

The very thought of recognizing function came from observing a guy split pellets at high speed with sword. I have ADHD so focus is hard for me. The difference when I do and don't is remarkable. Two different people. It came to me that perhaps he is notice it without inner dialog (the pellet). This make the phrase keep your eye on the ball translate to keep your eye on the ball and eliminate all active thought. Make it the sole object of focus. Literally took me decades to understand what was distracting me. Everything I had observed my whole life started to be perceived differently as some of these perceptive barriers have been challenged.

Thank you for the taking the time to demonstrate your intention and sharing what you know of this phenomenon.

:anjali:
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Re: OCD

Post by Ruhan »

tkp67 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:41 pm I treasure dialog regarding these things for several reasons. I sense the compassion and desire to express it.

To understand the differentials of the mind is most difficult under normal circumstances. To understand ones where cultures, backgrounds and experience are varied makes it much more difficult. Add the internet dynamic and people might say it isn't possible.

To make these efforts to understand such difference in a compassionate manner is the golden road. These things are in their very nature difficult so expecting it to be without difficulty isn't a reasonable expectation.

I have noticed in my own mind none of these things are mutually exclusive. That is when my physiology is relatively calm and I am left simply to my unbiased thoughts this advice to seeking cessation of rising thoughts may be readily available when I get there.

The very thought of recognizing function came from observing a guy split pellets at high speed with sword. I have ADHD so focus is hard for me. The difference when I do and don't is remarkable. Two different people. It came to me that perhaps he is notice it without inner dialog (the pellet). This make the phrase keep your eye on the ball translate to keep your eye on the ball and eliminate all active thought. Make it the sole object of focus. Literally took me decades to understand what was distracting me. Everything I had observed my whole life started to be perceived differently as some of these perceptive barriers have been challenged.

Thank you for the taking the time to demonstrate your intention and sharing what you know of this phenomenon.

:anjali:
I understand you, my friend. Many years ago a psychologist told me - during a psychological consultation because of my dyscalculia - that a test I had just done showed a slight attention disorder. Nothing serious, but if it bothers me from time to time, I can imagine how it can be - instead - disabling for those with acute forms.

Regarding insights that change perspective, I understand you. In my case it was about not accepting impermanence and at the same time the suffering that arose from it. In my case, the change of perspective helped me see impermanence as the continuous consummation of dharmas, as their continuous "liberation", as that thing thanks to which everything passes, you are freed from everything because everything falls apart leaving no trace. This has helped me a lot. Of course, this is not enough, since impermanence not only takes away boredom or suffering, but also beautiful things, but at the same time also the suffering coming from the disappointment of having seen a hope of permanence disappointed, this suffering also consumes itself; this helps me to calm down, not to identify too much with the events of the role (or the clothes, as Linji says) I wear. Something like the storyteller question you mentioned above.

Thanks again for this dialogue :smile:
Last edited by Ruhan on Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OCD

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Rick wrote: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:19 pm Any OCDers out there?

I've been obsessive my whole life, but the obsessive-compulsive thing kicked in about three decades ago.

I'm pretty sure 30 years of OCD (sometimes active, sometimes dormant, but always there) has changed the structure and functionality of my little gray cells. This includes the quality of my 'spiritual journey.'

I'm not interested in advice or (God forbid!) diagnosis (been there, had that!) ... rather in comparing notes with other OCDers, specifically in terms of how it affects your dharma study, meditation, etc.

If you're not comfortable sharing on a public forum (it took me a long time before I 'came out') and you wanna talk, pm me. :thumbsup:
Diagnosed here. The diagnosis was over one particular set of intrusive thoughts. I had so much guilt around them and that just made matters worse. I worked on them in therapy and learned that they didn't mean I was likely going to act on them. I also worked on perhaps where the topic matter was rooted from. And I learned to accept them. They eventually decreased in severity significantly.

This was however all off the cushion and before I seriously got into routine practice.

There are things that I do that are probably OCD related. For example I do abrupt outload swearing at myself certain key phrases when I have certain unpleasant thoughts. It is unconsciously supressed in social settings though. It happens so fast it's not really conscious so I don't know if it counts as OCD. I occasionally get stuck in a short loop of them.

And some other stuff that involves certain activations of muscles.

Fun story, apparently my brain doesn't think quiet zoom call is a social setting if I'm not looking at the screen. Super embarrassing, but also kind of funny.

The ways this interferes with meditation practice I think is very subtle. Seeing strong reoccurring interruptions during calm abiding visualization. Would I call it part of my OCD? Probably not. And I imagine doing so for me might make it worse. Instead I see it as a result of obsessive tendencies.
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Re: OCD

Post by Virgo »

Hazel wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:19 pm
Fun story, apparently my brain doesn't think quiet zoom call is a social setting if I'm not looking at the screen. Super embarrassing, but also kind of funny.
Zoom somehow increases my vocal tics - much more than meeting in person. I really don't understand it.

By the way, writing posts on this forum and other places sometimes takes me a long time as tourettes (and especially my ocd) gets in the way. There is no such thing for me as simply firing off a post and pressing send. It just doesn't work that way. It often takes me many minutes to write a simple post. It's good when people are patient with me.

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Re: OCD

Post by _Namaste_ »

I have OCD and a vocal and physical tic disorder the vocal tics started one month ago but i did have movement one of them was my hand moving on it own 2 years ago, now its vocal and physical tics I cant even make a cuppa without nearly scolding myself with the tea so my partner has to make it for me and only when my tics arent bad I swear and say things like calling my cat Cabbage when he called Ninja sometimes WWE rick flair woohoo normally that wakes my partner or my cat up or them both in the middle of the night, with covid lockdown in the UK am not in groups but when I go back to them I don't want to be rude to people or call them something or hit them or woohoo. my OCD is more pure O than full-blown OCD.
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Re: OCD

Post by tkp67 »

Ruhan wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:34 pm
tkp67 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:41 pm I treasure dialog regarding these things for several reasons. I sense the compassion and desire to express it.

To understand the differentials of the mind is most difficult under normal circumstances. To understand ones where cultures, backgrounds and experience are varied makes it much more difficult. Add the internet dynamic and people might say it isn't possible.

To make these efforts to understand such difference in a compassionate manner is the golden road. These things are in their very nature difficult so expecting it to be without difficulty isn't a reasonable expectation.

I have noticed in my own mind none of these things are mutually exclusive. That is when my physiology is relatively calm and I am left simply to my unbiased thoughts this advice to seeking cessation of rising thoughts may be readily available when I get there.

The very thought of recognizing function came from observing a guy split pellets at high speed with sword. I have ADHD so focus is hard for me. The difference when I do and don't is remarkable. Two different people. It came to me that perhaps he is notice it without inner dialog (the pellet). This make the phrase keep your eye on the ball translate to keep your eye on the ball and eliminate all active thought. Make it the sole object of focus. Literally took me decades to understand what was distracting me. Everything I had observed my whole life started to be perceived differently as some of these perceptive barriers have been challenged.

Thank you for the taking the time to demonstrate your intention and sharing what you know of this phenomenon.

:anjali:
I understand you, my friend. Many years ago a psychologist told me - during a psychological consultation because of my dyscalculia - that a test I had just done showed a slight attention disorder. Nothing serious, but if it bothers me from time to time, I can imagine how it can be - instead - disabling for those with acute forms.

Regarding insights that change perspective, I understand you. In my case it was about not accepting impermanence and at the same time the suffering that arose from it. In my case, the change of perspective helped me see impermanence as the continuous consummation of dharmas, as their continuous "liberation", as that thing thanks to which everything passes, you are freed from everything because everything falls apart leaving no trace. This has helped me a lot. Of course, this is not enough, since impermanence not only takes away boredom or suffering, but also beautiful things, but at the same time also the suffering coming from the disappointment of having seen a hope of permanence disappointed, this suffering also consumes itself; this helps me to calm down, not to identify too much with the events of the role (or the clothes, as Linji says) I wear. Something like the storyteller question you mentioned above.

Thanks again for this dialogue :smile:
Beyond other diagnosis I am also dyslexic and dysgraphic (as well as ADHD). One reason I am comfortable being vocal about these "ailments" is they all served quite poignantly in revealing this thing called self. I had to learn to the validate the workings of my own mind and not through my own eyes but through the eyes of all others.

For all the hardships and trials I did get blessed by a mother whose compassion and empathy were beyond fathoming.

I remember when I was young (10 maybe) I asked my mother the existential question "if there was a god why would he allow for conditions such as autism)"

Her reaction was so swift it caught me by surprise. She had been the director of an art program in school and taught handicapped children. She replied in a way that made me feel guilty for thinking the way I did.

I forget the exact wording but it was something to the effect that whatever wonderful thing she found in me she saw in each one of them. Unbridled and without limit.

She told me some specifics about these children, their limits as seen by society and the reality of their being as experienced as her. She never even mentioned agency. It was as if the heart of the matter was so apparent agency wasn't a requirement.

:anjali:
yinyangkoi
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Re: OCD

Post by yinyangkoi »

I wish you all happiness, comfort, peace, health and love. May you all be happy and free from suffering.
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Hazel
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Re: OCD

Post by Hazel »


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