The Great Debate on Quitting Smoking

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Queequeg
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by Queequeg »

Tills ljuset tar oss wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:58 pm Oops. I meant to say less harmful compared to cigarettes. The new tobacco free white variety does not discolor the teeth. But yeah. It's a bad habit to use any kind of drugs. I agree.

So compared to smoking it is almost harmless. At least from what i have heard. I'm just glad to cut down on my smoking. Not advocating the use of any drug.

I stand corrected.
Have you seen people who get lip/mouth cancer from dip/chew? Sucks to have your face amputated.

Good luck to all the quitters out there.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Tills ljuset tar oss
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by Tills ljuset tar oss »

Queequeg wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:06 pm
Tills ljuset tar oss wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:58 pm Oops. I meant to say less harmful compared to cigarettes. The new tobacco free white variety does not discolor the teeth. But yeah. It's a bad habit to use any kind of drugs. I agree.

So compared to smoking it is almost harmless. At least from what i have heard. I'm just glad to cut down on my smoking. Not advocating the use of any drug.

I stand corrected.
Have you seen people who get lip/mouth cancer from dip/chew? Sucks to have your face amputated.

Good luck to all the quitters out there.
That is horrible to hear. May they be free from suffering. The stuff i use is not dip or chew though. It is Swedish snus. And everybody says it's the safest tobacco product in the world. Scandinavian countries have relatively low rates of cancer because many use snus instead of smoking. The plutonium argument is not really solid either because the new varieties are not made with whole tobacco but rather extracted pure nicotine. It is still addictive but way safer than other routes of nicotine administration. Not advocating. Just saying.

https://snusforumet.se/no-link-between- ... udy-shows/
shanyin
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by shanyin »

Sometimes I throw out my ciggarettes in an attmept.

I notice that I seem to be in a sort of hypnotic trance where I think I want a ciggarette especially when I don't have any I tear my apartment apart looking for them. I think it's because I subconciously believe I like the high ciggarettes give but in reality I like it only a little bit when I stop feeling stressed or stop pacing around and feeling angry or doing restless things because I am smoking one.

I am reading a book called "Quit and Stay Quit". :reading:

Do I really really want to quit? I don't know but I'm starting to be scared of ciggarettes sometimes in short bursts.
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Queequeg
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Re: Quitting smoking

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I used to contemplate how terrible they were. A sort of modified meditation on a corpse. While smoking I'd be mindful of the burning sensation in my lungs and throat, the smell on my fingers, stains on my teeth. I'd think of cancer and emphysema. I'd think about the pathetic cravings I would have, think about how the addiction conditioned my thoughts and activities. How I was enslaved. How pathetic it was that seeing the last few cigarettes in the pack would have me thinking about going out to get another pack... Forget that there was a foot of snow on the ground and it was freezing. It didn't matter. I'd run to the store in a t shirt and flipflops if I had to.

You feel better after having a smoke because your body is addicted, not because it actually does anything for you. You condition yourself to think a smoke is a reward when really it's just warding off feeling like shit when nicotine levels in the blood start going down.

Nothing redeeming about it.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
shanyin
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by shanyin »

I think that quitting smoking is important for my meditation practice.
shanyin
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by shanyin »

Weed, achohol and tobacco. Looking back at my experience with these I realized that one of them is really really bad.

I threw out my ciggarettes this morning. Is there anything wrong with saying, I'm done smoking alot, I'm done smoking more than just here and there like 3-5 per day and not buying them anymore? I could get them from my neighbors who gives them to me when I'm hurting for one. But I am growing tired of the habit. But I don't believe I can stop entirely. I was smoking about 45 per day. I suppose it's called cutting back, and it's a good thing.
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Tills ljuset tar oss
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by Tills ljuset tar oss »

I've been free from cigarettes for two months now. My breathing has improved and i can highly recommend anyone who smokes to quit.

I feel more positive and less shameful. Like finally only air goes into my lungs. It's good.
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Ayu
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by Ayu »

Tills ljuset tar oss wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:48 am I've been free from cigarettes for two months now. My breathing has improved and i can highly recommend anyone who smokes to quit.

I feel more positive and less shameful. Like finally only air goes into my lungs. It's good.
Congrats.
Later, beware of thinking you are over it and cigarettes couldn't lead to addiction anymore. In my experience the time after 6 months and after 7 years were most dangerous. Suddenly I was smoking again.

I learned that the only remedy against smoking was to really never smoke. If I followed that, not smoking was easy.
After 10 smokefree years it felt like I was really free of it, physically and mentally.
But I still focus on ignoring cigarettes. I don't watch people smoking. Once a friend asked me to hold his cigarette only shortly while he was carrying something. I refused to touch his cigarette and told him to put it in an ashtray rather. This is the level of avoidance I hold.
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by Giovanni »

shanyin wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:04 am Weed, achohol and tobacco. Looking back at my experience with these I realized that one of them is really really bad.

I threw out my ciggarettes this morning. Is there anything wrong with saying, I'm done smoking alot, I'm done smoking more than just here and there like 3-5 per day and not buying them anymore? I could get them from my neighbors who gives them to me when I'm hurting for one. But I am growing tired of the habit. But I don't believe I can stop entirely. I was smoking about 45 per day. I suppose it's called cutting back, and it's a good thing.
I tried cutting back, if you can that’s good. But like Ayu says my intake crept up again until it was the same as before.
I had to stop completely, which I did eventually. Having a medical scare helped..😳
I was on 30-40 a day. It can be done. Within a month my complexion went from greyish to pink…seriously.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Yeah, in my experience if you are a serious smoker, it’s only a matter of time before you shoot back up after cutting down.

I spent years “cutting down”, in a harm reduction sense it was good because obviously I was smoking less. On the other hand it was more miserable because I couldn’t smoke as often as I wanted to and just thought about it all the time.

That got annoying enough to make me want to quit for good, which took 15 or so serious tries.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

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Ayu
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by Ayu »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:42 pm Yeah, in my experience if you are a serious smoker, it’s only a matter of time before you shoot back up after cutting down.

I spent years “cutting down”, in a harm reduction sense it was good because obviously I was smoking less. On the other hand it was more miserable because I couldn’t smoke as often as I wanted to and just thought about it all the time.

That got annoying enough to make me want to quit for good, which took 15 or so serious tries.
This is similar to my experience.
I was just smoking for silencing this desire. But it had a tendency to grow only. Then one time it dawned to me that the only way to satisfy that urge was DO NOT SMOKE and get used to it. It's not as simple as it sounds. But this realisation was the key for me. If I don't want to have this craving, smoking against it is the completly wrong tool. Difficult to understand to the bottom of it.
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Re: Quitting smoking

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Ayu wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:58 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:42 pm Yeah, in my experience if you are a serious smoker, it’s only a matter of time before you shoot back up after cutting down.

I spent years “cutting down”, in a harm reduction sense it was good because obviously I was smoking less. On the other hand it was more miserable because I couldn’t smoke as often as I wanted to and just thought about it all the time.

That got annoying enough to make me want to quit for good, which took 15 or so serious tries.
This is similar to my experience.
I was just smoking for silencing this desire. But it had a tendency to grow only. Then one time it dawned to me that the only way to satisfy that urge was DO NOT SMOKE and get used to it. It's not as simple as it sounds. But this realisation was the key for me. If I don't want to have this craving, smoking against it is the completly wrong tool. Difficult to understand to the bottom of it.
Yeah, exactly, I eventually started feeling like quitting completely was probably less misery in the long run than just kind of half-quitting all the time.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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shanyin
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Re: The Great Debate on Quitting Smoking

Post by shanyin »

OK so I think I want to post again about my smoking habit.

I went back to smoking after a short time around 5 days.

Facts about my smoking habit:

I smoke about Two 20 packs per day. Sometimes I chain smoke like way to many cigarettes in a row.
I have tried about a dozen or more times to quit via just throwing out my cigarettes and quitting right then and there (not sure if thats called a cold turkey attempt or not)
I buy cheap cigarettes (probably illegally) at the convenience store across the street
I get free cigarettes from my parents who pretty much drive them to me everyday
I get cigarettes sometimes from my neigbours.
I have tried counselling and had virtually no success other than 48 hours without smoking.
I own about 5 books on quitting smoking and probably didn't give them the effort they deserve.
I smoke indoors but have been smoking outside alot more lately. I am in a local housing unit that is subsidized and it is illegal to smoke inside.
Smoking indoors makes me a bit concerned for my 2 cats.
I talk alot to my parents about quitting smoking.
I think that marijuana was a gateway into my smoking cigarettes.
Smoking is a terrible habit and I probably deserve to feel embarrased but I seem to feel repressed in that sense.

I bought an e-cigarette to try (I claim I've been trying to quit but maybe my attempts are just so weak that I can't even call it trying.) to switch to that but failed over the last couple weeks.

One idea I had is to cut back. Maybe I could smoke my vape indoors and smoke 100% outside and keep a log of all my ciggarettes. I've done that before and it lead to myself stopping for about 4 days that time. :juggling:

Ideas for me to quit:

1. Throw out my ciggarettes right now and vape all day and go cold turkey.
2. Read my quit smoking books.
3. Work with a tobacco counsellor.
4. Take drugs for quitting.
5. Replace smoking with: Video Games, Reading, Exercising, playing with my cats, playing guitar, cleaning my apartment, meditating, yoga or tai chi, pursuing new healthier friendships, healthy snacking, journaling, listening to music, trying to stop my minds need for the satisfaction of relaxation and focus that smoking provides through mindfulness, Dharma study, doing things for others, volunteer work or regular work, reading the news, chanting the precepts/repenting or prostrations. :consoling:
6. Scaring myself out of smoking through watching videos.
7.

:rules: Maybe I should take this post to a smoking help web chat or call a smokers help line.
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justsit
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Re: The Great Debate on Quitting Smoking

Post by justsit »

In your deepest heart of hearts, do you really WANT to quit? Or do you think you SHOULD quit? Because if you WANT to quit, you can. Otherwise you're kidding yourself.

It's as easy as not touching a cigarette. If your hand doesn't go near one, you can't smoke.

It's also the most difficult thing you may ever do, because you are a drug addict, your drug is nicotine.

The only way I quit was cold turkey. Everything else was just trying to fool myself.

Be ready for withdrawal symptoms. Drink lots of water, take laxatives if you need to because your digestive system will not function properly until the nicotine withdrawal is done. Eat easy to digest foods. Stay away from smokers, throw out the cigarettes. If you feel a severe craving, go lick a dirty ashtray. Disgusting, yes, it's supposed to be. Do whatever it takes (other than substituting another addiction!) to stop.

It can be done. Best of luck.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: The Great Debate on Quitting Smoking

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Keep trying, don’t look at it as a failure, but as a week of successfully not smoking. Build on whatever was successful in that week, think about what brought you back to smoking, and try to build your plan around that.

Relapse is part of making a long term change.

I’d discourage vaping, it’s usually more nicotine than smoking. Probably slightly safer, but switching to that won’t do anything far as the addiction goes.

When I quit I used my insurances program, it definitely helped some.

You are smoking a lot, it will take real effort to not do something so ingrained in your daily habits, but you can do it. Start by figuring out what you will replace your smoking times with, especially those times you feel you just can’t be without a cigarette.

Last I checked the stats it currently takes most people 8 or 9 serious tries to quit. That only matters if you’re really motivated though, sometimes just contemplating motivation for quitting is good.

I don’t know why but when I quit 16 or so years ago it took people longer statistically, it was more like 13 tries…I think it took me 15, I smoked nearly what you do at one time.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

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明安 Myoan
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Re: The Great Debate on Quitting Smoking

Post by 明安 Myoan »

JD -- appreciate your insight and experience.

What do you recommend when you share such a habit with a loved one, and it's no longer one person's habituated use but two people's, feeding off each other?

An immediate solution for me during one successful quit was to stop being around my loved one when they smoked, but that entailed hours less a day spent together. Loss of the social aspect is not a challenge I anticipated getting caught on.

:thanks:
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: The Great Debate on Quitting Smoking

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明安 Myoan wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:07 pm JD -- appreciate your insight and experience.

What do you recommend when you share such a habit with a loved one, and it's no longer one person's habituated use but two people's, feeding off each other?

An immediate solution for me during one successful quit was to stop being around my loved one when they smoked, but that entailed hours less a day spent together. Loss of the social aspect is not a challenge I anticipated getting caught on.

:thanks:
It’s hard, social stuff is one of the toughest things for quitting any substance. The standard thing is to avoid the trigger - be around people smoking as little as possible, especially in the beginning. If your partner is unwilling to alter their behavior much, it makes avoiding it much trickier.

If you have to be around it you just have to develop flawless coping skills really, long term and short. There is no other way to begin really.

In the short term doing a breathing exercise away from the smoke when having an urge might help, simply because part of the high from inhaling is deep breathing. Alternately you could eat candy, do jumping jacks, or whatever else just to keep you from smoking.

That won’t help long term so much, there you have to figure what overall purpose smoking is serving in your life, however imperfect, and find some other way to get there. The long term stuff is a lot more abstract and takes serious introspection. I found my habit was a lot about the sense of needing an ‘escape’ and a need for regular relaxation.

You can look up “urge surfing” on YouTube for meditations designed to help you cope with urges, which tend to not last as long as we think.

You can also tell partners, etc. you are quitting, not to bum you smoked etc…but of course that creates other issues sometimes.

There really is no easy way, but what I will tell you is that people who are motivated to quit and make a plan are generally a lot more successful than people who can’t quite prioritize it and think they can “just do it”.

Then there is the old 12 step wisdom one day at a time.

If you are always thinking about how impossible it seems to quit, how a futures without cigarettes seems impossible, etc., make your plan, but stop trying to predict the future and just resolve each day to make it through that day as a non smoker.

It sounds simple, but it is seriously one of the most important tools to changing any behavior. Just resolve to get through the day, and put your focus only there. Look up some 12 step slogans if you’d like. I’m not a 12 step guy in particular but some of their slogans are really powerful for this. Similarly the SMART recovery program likes to remind people “patience, practice, persistence”.

It ain’t easy, but I know it can be done.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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明安 Myoan
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Re: The Great Debate on Quitting Smoking

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:thumbsup:
Namu Amida Butsu
shanyin
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Re: The Great Debate on Quitting Smoking

Post by shanyin »

justsit wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:34 pm In your deepest heart of hearts, do you really WANT to quit? Or do you think you SHOULD quit? Because if you WANT to quit, you can. Otherwise you're kidding yourself.

It's as easy as not touching a cigarette. If your hand doesn't go near one, you can't smoke.

It's also the most difficult thing you may ever do, because you are a drug addict, your drug is nicotine.

The only way I quit was cold turkey. Everything else was just trying to fool myself.

Be ready for withdrawal symptoms. Drink lots of water, take laxatives if you need to because your digestive system will not function properly until the nicotine withdrawal is done. Eat easy to digest foods. Stay away from smokers, throw out the cigarettes. If you feel a severe craving, go lick a dirty ashtray. Disgusting, yes, it's supposed to be. Do whatever it takes (other than substituting another addiction!) to stop.

It can be done. Best of luck.
I suppose in my deepest heart of hearts I don't want to quit. But on the surface of things i think I want to quit and I think I should quit.
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Re: The Great Debate on Quitting Smoking

Post by justsit »

I suppose in my deepest heart of hearts I don't want to quit. But on the surface of things i think I want to quit and I think I should quit.
Good, now you're being honest. Thinking you want to quit and/or should quit is NOT the same thing as wanting to quit. It simply is not enough motivation to counteract the discomfort of nicotine withdrawal.

So now maybe think about why you don't really want to quit. Then examine those reasons very carefully and honestly.
Do some serious thinking. Drug withdrawal is difficult and unpleasant, yes, but it can be done, if you really really want to quit.

And if you really don't want to, you won't. Full stop.
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