AKB, Ch. 1, V. 33: Dhatus - Vikalpa

Post Reply
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14456
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

AKB, Ch. 1, V. 33: Dhatus - Vikalpa

Post by Queequeg »

Starting with translations and definitions -

I found the entry from the Princeton Dictionary remarkable. Its long, but I will quote it here in full.
vikalpa. (P. vikappa; T. rnam par rtog pa; C. fenbie; J. fun­ betsu; K. punbyol 分別). In Sanskrit, "[false] discrimination," "imagining,” or “conception”, the discriminative activities of mind, generally portrayed in the negative sense of fantasy and imagination, and often equivalent to "conceptual proliferation" (PRAPANCA). Vikalpa refers to the conceptual activities of the mental consciousness (MANOVIJNANA), a mediated mental activity that operates through the medium of generic images (SAMANYALAKSANA). Vikalpa is often opposed to the immediate knowledge provided by direct perception (PRATYAKSA). The direct perception of reality is therefore commonly described as NIRVIKALPA, or “free from thought." 'if Three types of conceptual discrimination (TRIVIKALPA) are typically described in the literature. (1) Intrinsic discrimination (SVABHAVAVIKALPA), which refers to the initial advertence of thought (VITARKA) and the subsequent sustained attention (VICARA) to a perceived object of the six sensory consciousnesses (VIJNANA), that is, the discrimination of present objects, as when visual consciousness perceives a visual object. (2) Conceptualizing discrimination (ABHINIRUPANAVIKALPA), which refers to discursive thought on ideas that arise in the sixth mental consciousness when it adverts toward a mental object that is associated with any of the three time periods of past, present, or future. (3) Discrimination involving reflection on past events (ANUSMARANAVIKALPA), which refers to discriminative thought involving the memory of past objects. 'if There is a wide range of opinion as to the value of vikalpa (in the sense of "thought" or "conception") in the soteriological progress. Some traditions would hold that the structured use of conceptual and logical analysis (and especially the use of inference, or ANUMANA) is a prerequisite to reaching a state beyond all thought. Such a position is advocated in the Indian philosophical schools and in those that favor the so-called gradual path to enlightenment. In the stages of the path to enlightenment, all forms of meditation prior to the attainment of the path of vision (DARSANAMARGA) are "conceptual" and thus entail vikalpa. Other schools radically d value all thought as an obstacle to the understanding of the ultimate and would claim that the nonconceptual, described in some cases as "no-thought" (C. WUNIAN), is accessible at all times. Such an approach, most famously expounded in the CHAN traditions of Asia, is associated with the so-called sudden path to enlightenment (see DUNWU). 'if In the YOGACARA school, vikalpa is described specifically as the "discriminative conception of apprehended and apprehender" (GRAHYAGRAHAKAVIKALPA), referring to the misconception that there is an inherent bifurcation between a perceiving subject (grahaka) and its perceived objects (grahya). This bifurcation occurs because of false imagining (ABHUTAPARIKALPA), the tendency of the relative phenomena (PARATANTRA) to be misperceived as divided into a perceiving self and a perceived object that is external to it. By relying on these false imaginings to construct our sense of what is real, we inevitably subject ourselves to continued suffering (DUHKHA) within the cycle of birth-and-death (SAMSARA). Overcoming this bifurcation leads to the nondiscriminative wisdom (NIRVIKALPAJNANA), which, in the five-stage path (PANCAMARGA) system, marks the inception of the path of vision (darsanamarga), where the adept sees reality directly, without the intercession of concepts. The elimination of grahyagrahakavikalpa proceeds from the less to the more subtle. It is easier to realize that a projected object is a projection than to realize that a projecting subject is as well; among projected objects, it is easier to realize that afflicted (SAMKLISTA) dharmas (the SKANDHAs and so on) are projections than to realize that purified (VYAVADANA) dharmas (the five paths and so on) are as well; and among subjects it is easier to realize that a material subject (a mental substratum and so on) is a projection than to realize that a nominally existing subject (a nominally existing self and so on) is. This explanation of vikalpa, common in the PRAJNAPARAMITA commentarial tradition, influenced the theory of the SAMPANNAKRAMA (completion stage) in ANUTTARAYOGA (highest yoga) TANTRA, where prior to reaching enlightenment the four sets of vikalpas are dissolved with their associated PRANAS in the central channel (AVADHOTI).
We could say, its all about destroying vikalpa, couldn't we.

Vaibhsikas identify three vikalpas - these are listed above as svabhavavikalpa, abhinirupanavikalpa, and anusmaranavikalpa. The five sense consciousnesses only have the first kind of vipalka which is the same as vitarka.

Vasubandhu goes on to explain that basically all mental activity that is not dhyana is vikalpa.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - Vikalpa

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:01 pm
We could say, its all about destroying vikalpa, couldn't we.

Vaibhsikas identify three vikalpas - these are listed above as svabhavavikalpa, abhinirupanavikalpa, and anusmaranavikalpa. The five sense consciousnesses only have the first kind of vipalka which is the same as vitarka.

Vasubandhu goes on to explain that basically all mental activity that is not dhyana is vikalpa.
Vikalpa, rnam rtog, is pretty much the main problem. Dhyānas are one pointed direct perceptions, so are free of vikalpa. Direct perceptions of sense objects are also free of vikalpa.

Being free of vikalpa is not liberation, this is why Hindu nirvikalpa samadhi is not liberation, but when someone has insight into emptiness, then there is no difference between nirvikalpa samadhi and vajropama samadhi, they are in fact the same thing.

M
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14456
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - Vikalpa

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:19 pm
Queequeg wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:01 pm
We could say, its all about destroying vikalpa, couldn't we.

Vaibhsikas identify three vikalpas - these are listed above as svabhavavikalpa, abhinirupanavikalpa, and anusmaranavikalpa. The five sense consciousnesses only have the first kind of vipalka which is the same as vitarka.

Vasubandhu goes on to explain that basically all mental activity that is not dhyana is vikalpa.
Vikalpa, rnam rtog, is pretty much the main problem. Dhyānas are one pointed direct perceptions, so are free of vikalpa. Direct perceptions of sense objects are also free of vikalpa.

Being free of vikalpa is not liberation, this is why Hindu nirvikalpa samadhi is not liberation, but when someone has insight into emptiness, then there is no difference between nirvikalpa samadhi and vajropama samadhi, they are in fact the same thing.

M
I had to look up those samadhis so please correct me if its apparent I'm missing something.

Does this mean, if a Hindu yogi has an insight about emptiness, they will be at the completion stage of the pancamarga? Will they proceed to arhatship or buddhahood if they continue? Or does something else need to intervene in that path to bring them to completion?
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - Vikalpa

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:10 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:19 pm
Queequeg wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:01 pm
We could say, its all about destroying vikalpa, couldn't we.

Vaibhsikas identify three vikalpas - these are listed above as svabhavavikalpa, abhinirupanavikalpa, and anusmaranavikalpa. The five sense consciousnesses only have the first kind of vipalka which is the same as vitarka.

Vasubandhu goes on to explain that basically all mental activity that is not dhyana is vikalpa.
Vikalpa, rnam rtog, is pretty much the main problem. Dhyānas are one pointed direct perceptions, so are free of vikalpa. Direct perceptions of sense objects are also free of vikalpa.

Being free of vikalpa is not liberation, this is why Hindu nirvikalpa samadhi is not liberation, but when someone has insight into emptiness, then there is no difference between nirvikalpa samadhi and vajropama samadhi, they are in fact the same thing.

M
I had to look up those samadhis so please correct me if its apparent I'm missing something.

Does this mean, if a Hindu yogi has an insight about emptiness, they will be at the completion stage of the pancamarga? Will they proceed to arhatship or buddhahood if they continue? Or does something else need to intervene in that path to bring them to completion?
A hindu, by definition will not have a proper insight into emptiness because they do not possess the view of dependent origination.

The two samadhis are the same: what is different is the person who is in those samadhis. In the case of hindus, that samadhi is not liberative, think of it as super-śamatha. In the case of a buddhist, it is the samadhi that arises beyond the āyatana of neither perception nor nonperception, the highest state of samsara, and is the samadhi that destroys all remaining traces of latent affliction, hence it is called "vajra-like."
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14456
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - Vikalpa

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:26 pm A hindu, by definition will not have a proper insight into emptiness because they do not possess the view of dependent origination.

The two samadhis are the same: what is different is the person who is in those samadhis. In the case of hindus, that samadhi is not liberative, think of it as super-śamatha. In the case of a buddhist, it is the samadhi that arises beyond the āyatana of neither perception nor nonperception, the highest state of samsara, and is the samadhi that destroys all remaining traces of latent affliction, hence it is called "vajra-like."
Thank you.

Fleshing this out - A Hindu would not have the view of dependent origination and would instead have the creator god as the genesis of all dharmas, correct?

In the Buddhist view, what happens to a Hindu yogi who has achieved nirvakalpa samadhi? Do they reach only to neither-thought-nor-no-thought heaven? Presumably then they would continue to course in samsara, not attain moksha as they hold.

For the Buddhist who enters the vajrapama samadhi, presumably what happens at that point is different for a sravaka and for a Bodhisattva? Sravaka will 'merely' attain the end of outflows while the bodhisattva will attain complete knowledge?

Where does fundamental nescience fit into this? My understanding is that the arhat does not cut fundamental nescience while the bodhisattva does?

I'm guessing we will be getting around to some of these questions as we work through the text?
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - Vikalpa

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:37 pm

In the Buddhist view, what happens to a Hindu yogi who has achieved nirvakalpa samadhi? Do they reach only to neither-thought-nor-no-thought heaven? Presumably then they would continue to course in samsara, not attain moksha as they hold.
The result of nirvikalpa samadhi is the heaven of the unconsciousness devas, not even the formless realms.

I'm guessing we will be getting around to some of these questions as we work through the text?

Yup.
Post Reply

Return to “Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club”