Differences in experiences of the afterlife/NDE

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karmanyingpo
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Differences in experiences of the afterlife/NDE

Post by karmanyingpo »

Hello Dharma friends.

I have read that there are commonalities in people's experiences of the afterlife.
However, I imagine there are also differences in people's experience conditioned by their personal beliefs.
Any reliable sources on commonalities/differences and how things vary due to personal belief?

I have heard that in Tibetan traditions, it is believed that visions etc that arise in the afterlife are projections of the mind and therefore illusory (then again, the same can be said of waking life). So from this perspective it would make sense that personal beliefs would impact what is experienced and how it is interpreted.

A friend claimed to me that he has died before and said reincarnation is real and that you can choose to do it or not. I am doubtful of his interpretation because Dharma teachings do not teach that common people can just reincarnate however you want........ Otherwise what would even be the point of practice or positive karma because you could just choose to have a better existence after doing lots of wrong in the world... Doesn't seem to make sense so I think either he personally has enough good karma to choose a reincarnation and generalized that to everyone or he just had some kind of projection that he interpreted lots of thoughts onto. Let's discuss.


Karma Nyingpo
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
cjdevries
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Re: Differences in experiences of the afterlife/NDE

Post by cjdevries »

good topic. I have read quite a few different stories of NDEs. I think it all depends on people's karma. People with much good karma have pleasant experiences, but not everyone does. I also have heard many people say that you choose to reincarnate; that may be true to a certain extent, but I doubt it's universally true. It seems that many people are impelled by their karma to difficult situations; situations where they can't even do spiritual practice. That doesn't make much sense to me; why would anyone choose a rebirth consciously where you can't make any spiritual progress? That wouldn't be much of a learning experience, mostly suffering. I think for something to be an ideal learning process, there needs to be the opportunity to transcend suffering and transform it into a blessing, like Garchen Rinpoche was able to do in prison. I would believe someone who said they chose to reincarnate as a disabled person in order to grow spiritually, if they had the chance in that lifetime to do spiritual practice to transform the disability into a blessing. Reading the the stories of delogs is interesting (beings that leave their body and go to the other side in order to help others).
"Please call me by my true names so I can wake up; so the door of my heart can be left open: the door of compassion." -Thich Nhat Hanh

"Ask: what's needed of you" -Akong Rinpoche

"Love never claims, it ever gives. Love ever suffers, never resents, never revenges itself." -Gandhi
karmanyingpo
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Re: Differences in experiences of the afterlife/NDE

Post by karmanyingpo »

cjdevries wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:57 pm good topic. I have read quite a few different stories of NDEs. I think it all depends on people's karma. People with much good karma have pleasant experiences, but not everyone does. I also have heard many people say that you choose to reincarnate; that may be true to a certain extent, but I doubt it's universally true. It seems that many people are impelled by their karma to difficult situations; situations where they can't even do spiritual practice. That doesn't make much sense to me; why would anyone choose a rebirth consciously where you can't make any spiritual progress? That wouldn't be much of a learning experience, mostly suffering. I think for something to be an ideal learning process, there needs to be the opportunity to transcend suffering and transform it into a blessing, like Garchen Rinpoche was able to do in prison. I would believe someone who said they chose to reincarnate as a disabled person in order to grow spiritually, if they had the chance in that lifetime to do spiritual practice to transform the disability into a blessing. Reading the the stories of delogs is interesting (beings that leave their body and go to the other side in order to help others).
Thanks for sharing. Interesting topic to discuss with Dharma friends. Now I am curious about the many accounts you've heard of people saying you choose how you reincarnate. In the teachings as far as I know this is an ability that those of higher levels have, but those who are more disturbed usually because of lack of practice/bad karma etc. are karmically compelled to more difficult/negative rebirths. Again I am no expert so this is just my probably flawed understanding of things like the Tibetan bardo teachings. So I'm curious about the qualities of those people who say you choose a rebirth. Are they people who have a strong practice? If so then yeah I would buy it but I am more skeptical when it comes to those who are spiritually wonkie or don't have a strong practice.

And I agree about not making since to rebirth in negative circumstances where spiritual work is not possible or easy. Doesn't make sense but people sometimes believe wacky things.

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
cjdevries
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Re: Differences in experiences of the afterlife/NDE

Post by cjdevries »

I don't have that much experience in this topic, other than what I've read and heard about from intuitives who send people through hypnosis into past lives. I wish I knew more, but I'm woefully unprepared to talk about this subject in depth. My intuitive feeling and partly based on what I've learned from my Buddhist teachers is that based on your karma, we are given multiple rebirth possibilities and then we choose from those. So if we have to learn the lesson of how to handle money or power, we might have several rebirths to choose from in order to learn this lesson. I did have a Buddhist teacher who said her master told her that beings consciously choose their parents and that we make soul contracts with certain people. I'd be willing to bet that it is slightly more complicated than that.
"Please call me by my true names so I can wake up; so the door of my heart can be left open: the door of compassion." -Thich Nhat Hanh

"Ask: what's needed of you" -Akong Rinpoche

"Love never claims, it ever gives. Love ever suffers, never resents, never revenges itself." -Gandhi
karmanyingpo
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Re: Differences in experiences of the afterlife/NDE

Post by karmanyingpo »

cjdevries wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:34 am I don't have that much experience in this topic, other than what I've read and heard about from intuitives who send people through hypnosis into past lives. I wish I knew more, but I'm woefully unprepared to talk about this subject in depth. My intuitive feeling and partly based on what I've learned from my Buddhist teachers is that based on your karma, we are given multiple rebirth possibilities and then we choose from those. So if we have to learn the lesson of how to handle money or power, we might have several rebirths to choose from in order to learn this lesson. I did have a Buddhist teacher who said her master told her that beings consciously choose their parents and that we make soul contracts with certain people. I'd be willing to bet that it is slightly more complicated than that.
Thanks again for this great conversation. I hope someone from a Tibetan tradition can chime in soon because that is my main practice background. My understanding is that there may be a degree of choice with regards to rebirth but the more deluded and confused you are during the intermediary state the lower your rebirth and the less say you have in the matter. The clearer and less confused you are the more choice you can exert in making a beneficial and conscious choice. Again anyone reading please don't take anything I say here as authoratative because I am just a beginner and could be wrong on any of these details.

I guess where this diverges from my friend's story is that he seems to believe people in general have the option of choosing NOT to be reborn... Which I don't think is really an option unless you are very highly realized. So I am just very doubtful in general and to be honest I have many doubts about intuitives and hypnosis too. Alot of it seems to be just made up things from ordinary beings instead of things that are from enlightened beings and tried and tested by generations of practitioners. But I can kinda be a hardass about that stuff so I hope I am not offending anyone haha

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
cjdevries
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Re: Differences in experiences of the afterlife/NDE

Post by cjdevries »

Like you, nothing I can say can be taken as any kind of guide; it's just an amalgamation of the teachings I've received and my own beliefs based on what I've read.
"Please call me by my true names so I can wake up; so the door of my heart can be left open: the door of compassion." -Thich Nhat Hanh

"Ask: what's needed of you" -Akong Rinpoche

"Love never claims, it ever gives. Love ever suffers, never resents, never revenges itself." -Gandhi
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Hazel
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Re: Differences in experiences of the afterlife/NDE

Post by Hazel »

There are commonalities in what the brain does as a person starts to die, even when they are still breathing. This doesn't mean there are commonalities in what happens after you're dead.

Stick to what the teachings and teachers are saying along with the rigor of careful analysis and personal experience.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

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karmanyingpo
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Re: Differences in experiences of the afterlife/NDE

Post by karmanyingpo »

Hazel wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:59 pm There are commonalities in what the brain does as a person starts to die, even when they are still breathing. This doesn't mean there are commonalities in what happens after you're dead.

Stick to what the teachings and teachers are saying along with the rigor of careful analysis and personal experience.
Hello Dharma friend Hazel I agree with you about sticking with teachings and Dharma and being rigorous.

However I have to disagree slightly with the part about not being commonalities in what happens after you're dead. I agree in part disagree in part.
Certainly karma leads to us experiencing things differently after death. However science tells us that research shows there are certain similarities in what people usually see and feel (a light, positive emotions, leaving the body, spirits/entities etc). Of course I think there are exceptions to what people see and feel but those are trends they have noticed. And for me as a Tibetan Buddhist I don't feel conflict there because this doesn't seem to contradict bardo teachngs (but those are advanced and I am ignorant of them).

HOWEVER I am skeptical of the individual's claims and the way they are interpreting their experiences as solid and real. Because to my understanding according to the teachings the mind projects illusions in the intermediate state, kind of the way it does when we are alive. SO it is a mistake to think of them as solid.

The part that strikes up most doubt in me is the part about chosing your reincarnation or chosing not to reincarnate. Okay I know high lamas and strong practitioners can probably do this but I think ordinary beings dont have the option to just switch off the game and float around in some afterlife area. Maybe people have some degree of choice in which family they will be born in etc but to suggest we can just switch off samsara and float around seems dubious to me. Haha :jumping:

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
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