Personal experience in Buddhism as being the basis.

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Budai
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Personal experience in Buddhism as being the basis.

Post by Budai »

In the Buddha TV series which is a realistic retelling of Buddha's life, a Mystic approaches Him and asks whether He got His ideas or training from the Vedas to become Spiritualy advanced, and the Buddha replies that His Enlightenment is based on His personal experience, not on anything else. I have a question, is this a forum that focuses on what we have learned from Buddhism personally as well, I mean, isn't that the most important thing? Despite the importance of being able to site passages from Scriptures and Sutras, isn't what we get from them personally what makes us who we are? I am a firm believer that the Lotus Sutra must be preached and experinced in the attainment of Buddhahood, in any various form, but our personal experience that we draw from it is what gives us the individuality and empowerment of our journey as Bodhisattvas, as the human experience of Buddhist Love is infinite, and we are meant to be infinite.

A very kind moderator wrote me this:
I wanted to let you know several of your recent posts were not approved because they do not align with the specific topic's tradition or are simply your personal thoughts without any connection to Buddhadharma, sutra, or established commentary.
...
If you wish to post personal thought or opinion then please limit your posting to the Lounge
I have no problem following such rules, however I am wondering how personal thoughts and opinions on Buddhist experience aren't the most important points of discussions here, as when processing them we show who we are and grow as Buddhists. Also, I admit that since I am new here some of my posts were not fully on topic, but I found that there was something I needed to say to further the conversation. Anyway, the moderators are doing a good job. I appreciate this forum and how it is being run, I would just like to clear this up so I can help out better here. Thank you very much.

Brahma.
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tkp67
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Re: Personal experience in Buddhism as being the basis.

Post by tkp67 »

Brahma wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:10 pm I am a firm believer that the Lotus Sutra must be preached and experinced in the attainment of Buddhahood.
I think you will find others accord to this principle however there are established and recognized traditions with framework for propagating this sutra.

However the personal non-buddhist experiences we have that lead us to this sutra are just that. This does not reduce their meaning or their validity in bringing one to this sutra. They simply don't constitute Buddhist teachings and often conflate/contradict established teachings so there are some boundaries in regards to these discussions.

It does help to keep in mind that this is an international site that accommodates a rich portion of the Mayahana tradition so the site is moderated according to all those within this definition. There is a sister site for these specific discussions, Dharmapaths.com.
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Re: Personal experience in Buddhism as being the basis.

Post by Ayu »

Because Buddhadharma is very vast and profound, it's difficult enough to understand it when relying on sources. If people start to claim things without any foundation in Buddhadharma, it's not sure where it leads to.

We do this work of trying to understand the Dharma by digging through the teachings, sources, listen to the teachers (1)
and we carry those teachings around, pondering if it's true and how it is connected to own experiences (2)
and then this faint insight can be deepened by meditation (3). Listening, thinking and meditating is the path as told in Tibetan Buddhism.

This is a path of processes we are going through. And in best case this forum supports this process.
Now, if everybody only chats about his personal ideology with less back up in Buddha's teachings, this is a pity for the Dharma.

Example: "Only love can heal everything..." It's a nice friendly attitude. But what if it doesn't function? What if the love is only superficial? What is your next step to build up mental stability, compassion, faith?
Buddha's teachings (submitted by his students) show how to proceed. He taught so many lessons. Not everybody reduces practice on Mantra and believes to know everything already.
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Budai
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Re: Personal experience in Buddhism as being the basis.

Post by Budai »

As a Buddhist, would you say that there is any part of you that is non-Buddhist, or I mean wouldn't you see yourself as a Bodhisattva, or a Buddha that doesn't exist separately from the Buddha's Dharma? Therefore, becoming a Buddhist, and staying one, is anything that you say or do not coming from Buddhist experience? Even if you don't have it figured out yet, wherever you are on your Path, wouldn't it be very important to bring up points on what you think about certain topics as a Buddhist so that people can correct you on where you need to understand in a deeper way, so that you can grow? I believe that the Buddha had many discourses with His followers, and this brought them to the eventual power of the Lotus Sutra, which Buddha eventually fully preached for the benefit of all beings. But if there isn't a Buddhist discussion based on our personal experiences in Buddhism as Buddhists, how are we going to grow? I understand the rules are meant to be the way they are, but it is actually a little surprising to me that people aren't allowed to speak up for themselves and speak their minds when it comes fully from their Buddhist hearts, just because it's not a quote from modern Scripture or something like that. The Lotus Sutra is an infinite text, it is not just a book, it is an ever-Eternal difficult to grasp never-ending teaching that is a Mystic Law prevading all of existence and beyond.
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Re: Personal experience in Buddhism as being the basis.

Post by PeterC »

Brahma wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:12 pm I understand the rules are meant to be the way they are, but it is actually a little surprising to me that people aren't allowed to speak up for themselves and speak their minds when it comes fully from their Buddhist hearts, just because it's not a quote from modern Scripture or something like that.
The problem with that is that it produces a huge amount of incoherent bullshit; people start to think that their personal experience is somehow more valid than the Dharma; and casual readers, unfamiliar with the Dharma, get confused very quickly.
The Lotus Sutra is an infinite text, it is not just a book, it is an ever-Eternal difficult to grasp never-ending teaching that is a Mystic Law prevading all of existence and beyond.
So you've just illustrated why we need to have discussions based on actual texts and established practice. If all we do is discuss our own experience, then anyone can just respond, "yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man". And of course many lineages don't attach any particular importance to the Lotus Sutra in the first place, so that might be exactly how they feel. So we need to be discussing each tradition within the standards of that tradition, otherwise we end up with an incoherent mess that benefits nobody.
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Re: Personal experience in Buddhism as being the basis.

Post by Budai »

I understand. I very much appreciate how this site refers to texts so often, I don't see any nonsense from a Buddhist standpoint here at all, everything makes sense to me. I was just hoping people could refer to their own personal experience as well. I know there is a forum entitled "Personal Experiences" here and it is very nice, I just wish it was more widely ranging. I am very glad this isn't a forum where people are going off of "what they heard" about Buddhism, but referring to mostly full Dharma Practice and actual Sutra... But I am thinking there is a balance that must be reached for everyone for when they can talk about their personal experiences in Buddhism, I mean, everyone will eventually reach that point and everyone has the capacity to be understood in that way even if they haven't yet expanded their consciousness that far--eventually they will. And the Buddha has a perfect Eye for seeing and sensing this. It is valid to say that Buddhism is a Spiritual Practice for all beings, therefore in some cases people should be able to speak their mind, even if there is some idleness to it, if someone can come help them on a case by case basis into achieving what they have not achieved yet in Buddhism. Inquiries in Buddhism are very important, and many questions come in the form of uncompleted answers, so it is good to complete them. Also, everyone has to start somewhere. I don't disagree at all with the way this forum is being run, I am just bringing up a point and hoping people can be more mindful of this.
Last edited by Budai on Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Personal experience in Buddhism as being the basis.

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

With Dharma practice we are supposed to be constantly applying and testing the doctrine and the discipline. Over time our personal experiences become intertwined with the Dharma. once we have internalized and experienced the Dharma to some degree, then it's totally reasonable to continue the process of refining our take on personal experiences, and figuring out where they fit. If we internalize even just a little of the basic framework, discerning what is Right View and what is not becomes easier, at least a little, and hopefully we no longer need to wonder about or put on a pedestal our personal experiences.

If we haven't had much study, meditative experience or interaction with teachers though, it's probably that much more important to not trust our experiences as being what we think they are, and relying more directly on the words of the The Buddha, of our teachers etc.

"Come and see" as it's said, but it does not mean to just Come and See our own opinions, rather to test the practices and figure out how they fit with our experiences.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
amanitamusc
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Re: Personal experience in Buddhism as being the basis.

Post by amanitamusc »

Brahma wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:50 am I understand. I very much appreciate how this site refers to texts so often, I don't see any nonsense from a Buddhist standpoint here at all, everything makes sense to me. I was just hoping people could refer to their own personal experience as well. I know there is a forum entitled "Personal Experiences" here and it is very nice, I just wish it was more widely ranging. I am very glad this isn't a forum where people aren't going off of "what they heard" about Buddhism, but actual Sutra... But I am thinking there is a balance that must be reached for everyone for when they can talk about their personal experiences in Buddhism, I mean, everyone will eventually reach that point and everyone has the capacity to be understood in that way even if they haven't yet expanded their consciousness that far--eventually they will. And the Buddha has a perfect Eye for seeing and sensing this. It is valid to say that Buddhism is a Spiritual Practice for all beings, therefore in some cases people should be able to speak their mind, even if there is some idleness to it, if someone can come help them on a case by case basis into achieving what they have not achieved yet in Buddhism. Inquiries in Buddhism are very important, and many questions come in the form of uncompleted answers, so it is good to complete them. Also, everyone has to start somewhere. I don't disagree at all with the way this forum is being run, I am just bringing up a point and hoping people can be more mindful of this.
Looking for any serious advise on a Buddhist forum from strangers is asinine and dangerous.Advise on Buddhadharma should be sought from a qualified teacher of your lineage.
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Budai
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Re: Personal experience in Buddhism as being the basis.

Post by Budai »

amanitamusc wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:33 am Looking for any serious advise on a Buddhist forum from strangers is asinine and dangerous.Advise on Buddhadharma should be sought from a qualified teacher of your lineage.
Okay you bring up a very good point. I understand this and you are fully correct. There may be some who cannot discern knowledge from falsehood, and there is nonsense that can even poison the mind, which we must steer clear of. I think you fulfilled the expectation for my question. Thank you.
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