The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

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Zhen Li
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The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

Post by Zhen Li »

As I have been going through the KGSS again, I felt like it is worth considering and figuring out precisely why Shinran excerpts a very large portion of the Nirvāṇa Sūtra's narrative about Ajātaśatru. What do you think the significance of Ajātaśatru is in Jōdo Shinshū?

The explicit significance is generally understood as:
(1) Being impelled by Devadatta to commit grave offences, he gave rise to the conditions for the teaching of the Contemplation Sutra.
(2) An example of one of the kinds of people who are difficult to save, being saved through teachings on Buddha Nature.

Further, both Devadatta and Ajātaśatru are understood, through the Nirvāṇa Sūtra, to be manifestations of the Buddha (Amitābha and Śākyamuni) specifically for the purposes of giving rise to Dharma teachings in this way.

KGSS 3 (116) quotes the sūtra and gives, I think the implicit significance.

Ajātaśatru means unborn enemy. This person signifies:
1. Those who commit the five gravest offences.
2. Those possessed of evil passions.
3. Those who have not yet awakened aspiration for awakening.
4. One who hasn't given rise to Buddha-nature (unborn) and therefore gives rise to the passions (enemy).
5. One who does not produce nirvāṇa (unborn) and who is concerned with worldly matters (enemy).

The Buddha does not enter nirvāṇa for the sake of "Ajātaśatru," which is defined as:
1. For all ordinary beings.
2. For all beings subject to conditioned states—i.e. not for beings in nirvāṇa.
3. For beings who haven't seen Buddha-nature—i.e. all sentient beings, not for Buddhas.
4. For all beings because the Buddha is undefiled.

Clearly Ajātaśatru signifies all beings who are not yet Buddhas. It includes us. I understand the latter idea as implying that a Buddha, or an idea of a Buddha, must be relied upon by all ordinary beings. If we were Buddhas we could discard the notion of "Buddha," but an upāya or skilful means must be relied upon so long as we are ordinary beings.

How is Ajātaśatru saved?

I think the Nirvāṇa Sūtra presents a model of a kind of "sudden" awakening by means of the Tathāgata's power and based in his compassion (this is characterised as the Samādhi of "Moonlight" or "Moonlight Love"). Firstly, however, Ajātaśatru is shown as requiring the "good friend," who, for him, was Jīvaka. This is someone who introduces us to the Dharma, or teaches the Dharma, or presents the Dharma to us as a human—on a level and in a form that we can understand.

Secondly, the Buddha extends his light through his Samādhi, this removes Ajātaśatru's afflictions. I believe this corresponds to encountering the Dharma—light symbolising the Buddha's wisdom. It is hearing the Dharma.

Thirdly, the dialogue which follows thereafter indicates firstly that Ajātaśatru is aware that he can only fall into hell—this corresponds to our recognition of our karma as gravely evil. This is our fundamental condition as non-Buddhas.

Fourth, the Buddha explains how, from the perspective of Buddha-nature or Nirvāṇa, there is no evil, which is an illusion. Having given rise to rootless faith (like a candana tree growing from an eranda seed), Ajātaśatru also is described as giving rise to bodhicitta based on an aspiration to save sentient beings. This cuts off his evil karma and he describes himself as gaining eternal life. Later, the Buddha confirms that by giving rise to bodhicitta, karmic evil is cut off. This equates faith with bodhicitta, which is equated elsewhere with Buddha-nature.

I think the illusory nature of evil here is connected to how it is cut off—from the perspective of Buddha-nature there is no evil. It is still spoken of by the Buddha "in accordance with the common practice in the world." This means that only in Nirvāṇa is there no conventional evil. There continues to he conventional evil from the human perspective. But from the human perspective too, we can say that since Buddhahood is assured, at the point of Buddhahood retribution in future lives no longer applies. Faith is shown to be the key, it creates a connection in one's mind with the compassionate power of the Buddha (with Buddha-nature) which pulls one like a magnet to Nirvāṇa. It gives Ajātaśatru assurance of Nirvāṇa.

I mentioned this mechanism in a previous thread where I highlighted the metaphor of wood and a fire: the wood (our minds) when pushed into the fire (the Buddha's Mind), begins to burn and become fire, but it needs the push—which is faith. Faith is lack of doubt that one is assured of Buddhahood. Ajātaśatru shows this clearly when upon hearing the Buddha's words about the nature of Nirvāṇa and evil he instantly states his firm knowledge that he will destroy evil passions and liberate sentient beings.

Sukhāvatī is Nirvāṇa for those who have faith (shinjin). So, Ajātaśatru here has given rise to faith and will attain Nirvāṇa, rather than fall into Avīci, which would have been his destination otherwise. For those without faith, they train in a manifestation, an image of Sukhāvatī as described brilliantly in the Pure Land sutras. There must be both the concept and the actual experience of being in a place and being before a Buddha for this to work—as the Nirvāṇa Sūtra states, so long as the mind is NOT in nirvāṇa, there is the manifestation of a Buddha.

Another, small point, is about "diligent persons." The KGSS 3 (116) excerpt also mentions how the Buddha does not give much compassionate thought and care to diligent persons. He enters the "Samādhi of Moon-light Love" for the people of karmic evil, who are indolent, unruly, etc., but who also possess "the good mind." As I understand it, "the good mind" is the knowledge of good—they do evil, but they must be aware and know it is evil. Without being able to reflect and recognise their evil, the third step mentioned above does not take place and one does not know to ever give rise to faith. This also means people who are receptive to accepting the Buddha's light and power. I think what this is saying is that being diligent is not "bad," but they don't receive the same kind of blessing as those who consider themselves as incapable of much good, i.e. the kind of blessing which can allow one to attain irreversibility right away.

I have written more than I expected I would on this topic, but am interested in others' thoughts, and whether they have considered this matter previously. I also noticed that there is a book called "Ajatasatru: The Story of Who We Are," but have never read it. If anyone has read this book, I'd be interested in hearing if it has a different or similar take on this topic.
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Great thoughtful post

Ajatasatru created the difficult circumstances for the Pure Land teaching to be revealed by Shakyamuni in the Right Dharma Age.

Now we are in the degenerate age, Amida’s 48 Vows are vitally important as sentient beings face all kinds of difficulties due to the prevalence of negative karma.

Even though Queen Vaidehi had Shakyamuni Buddha with her the circumstances were so extreme that the Pure Land teaching was revealed. Beings in this age experience all kinds of difficulties so can go for refuge to Amida.

Jodo Wasan 80

Since conditions for the Pure Land teaching had matured,
Sakyamuni and Vaidehi, manifesting compassionate means,
Led the minister Varsakara to bear witness
And King Ajatasatru to commit grave offenses.

https://www.georgegatenby.id.au/jw80.htm
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Zhen Li
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Re: The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

Post by Zhen Li »

Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:44 pm Great thoughtful post

Ajatasatru created the difficult circumstances for the Pure Land teaching to be revealed by Shakyamuni in the Right Dharma Age.

Now we are in the degenerate age, Amida’s 48 Vows are vitally important as sentient beings face all kinds of difficulties due to the prevalence of negative karma.

Even though Queen Vaidehi had Shakyamuni Buddha with her the circumstances were so extreme that the Pure Land teaching was revealed. Beings in this age experience all kinds of difficulties so can go for refuge to Amida.

Jodo Wasan 80

Since conditions for the Pure Land teaching had matured,
Sakyamuni and Vaidehi, manifesting compassionate means,
Led the minister Varsakara to bear witness
And King Ajatasatru to commit grave offenses.

https://www.georgegatenby.id.au/jw80.htm
Thank you for your reply. It always amazes me how perfectly the Dharma messege of Shinran fits all the pieces together.
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Re: The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Zhen Li wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 10:56 pm
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:44 pm Great thoughtful post

Ajatasatru created the difficult circumstances for the Pure Land teaching to be revealed by Shakyamuni in the Right Dharma Age.

Now we are in the degenerate age, Amida’s 48 Vows are vitally important as sentient beings face all kinds of difficulties due to the prevalence of negative karma.

Even though Queen Vaidehi had Shakyamuni Buddha with her the circumstances were so extreme that the Pure Land teaching was revealed. Beings in this age experience all kinds of difficulties so can go for refuge to Amida.

Jodo Wasan 80

Since conditions for the Pure Land teaching had matured,
Sakyamuni and Vaidehi, manifesting compassionate means,
Led the minister Varsakara to bear witness
And King Ajatasatru to commit grave offenses.

https://www.georgegatenby.id.au/jw80.htm
Thank you for your reply. It always amazes me how perfectly the Dharma messege of Shinran fits all the pieces together.
It’s really Amida.

Also as a side note my Dharma practice and life in general was lost until I went for refuge to Amida. Like night and day.
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Re: The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

Post by Zhen Li »

Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 12:22 am It’s really Amida.

Also as a side note my Dharma practice and life in general was lost until I went for refuge to Amida. Like night and day.
How did you come to take refuge in Amida? I was wondering whether your username is a Dharma name—were you practicing in a Tibetan tradition previous or currently?

As for myself, I first gained a curiosity that Amida might be of particular importance on my path after practicing phowa in the Kagyu tradition. I gained some faith at that time that he exists, and also met some people who lived in great comfort knowing that their matter of the afterlife is settled.
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Re: The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Zhen Li wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 1:11 am
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 12:22 am It’s really Amida.

Also as a side note my Dharma practice and life in general was lost until I went for refuge to Amida. Like night and day.
How did you come to take refuge in Amida? I was wondering whether your username is a Dharma name—were you practicing in a Tibetan tradition previous or currently?

As for myself, I first gained a curiosity that Amida might be of particular importance on my path after practicing phowa in the Kagyu tradition. I gained some faith at that time that he exists, and also met some people who lived in great comfort knowing that their matter of the afterlife is settled.
I was in the midst of a crisis in January 2008 and decided to dedicate myself completely to Dharma to find a way out of it.

Chose Amitabha recitation and practiced for 8 days solid so that’s how I went for refuge.

I spent the next 5 years journeying through the three vows. The late Rev George Gatenby used to teach on that.

19th - Amitabha self power recitation with other practices which was Theravada
20th - Exclusive Amitabha self power recitation
18th - Then training with a Japanese Jodo Shinshu Master in London for 4 years.

After that relaxed, practiced a few things researched Esotericism came across Garchen Rinpoche and decided to then practice Secret Mantra which was Feb 2018 until now.

My Secret Mantra practice has clarified Faith a lot, there is no conflict.
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Re: The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:28 pm
Zhen Li wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 1:11 am
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 12:22 am It’s really Amida.

Also as a side note my Dharma practice and life in general was lost until I went for refuge to Amida. Like night and day.
How did you come to take refuge in Amida? I was wondering whether your username is a Dharma name—were you practicing in a Tibetan tradition previous or currently?

As for myself, I first gained a curiosity that Amida might be of particular importance on my path after practicing phowa in the Kagyu tradition. I gained some faith at that time that he exists, and also met some people who lived in great comfort knowing that their matter of the afterlife is settled.
I was in the midst of a crisis in January 2008 and decided to dedicate myself completely to Dharma to find a way out of it.

Chose Amitabha recitation and practiced for 8 days solid so that’s how I went for refuge.

I spent the next 5 years journeying through the three vows. The late Rev George Gatenby used to teach on that.

19th - Amitabha self power recitation with other practices which was Theravada
20th - Exclusive Amitabha self power recitation
18th - Then training with a Japanese Jodo Shinshu Master in London for 4 years.

After that relaxed, practiced a few things researched Esotericism came across Garchen Rinpoche and decided to then practice Secret Mantra which was Feb 2018 until now.

My Secret Mantra practice has clarified Faith a lot, there is no conflict.
It is interesting to me that the Japanese "Vajrayana" tradition, Shingon-Shu, also uses the rhetoric of other-power in some of its rituals.

There were heterodox groups known as Kakushi Nembutsu that were banned by medieval authorities and practiced in secret for centuries in the northern part of Honshu. Although there is some uncertainty and variation, many of these groups appeared to employ hybrid Shingon/Jodo-Shinshu practices.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
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Re: The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:36 pm
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:28 pm
Zhen Li wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 1:11 am
How did you come to take refuge in Amida? I was wondering whether your username is a Dharma name—were you practicing in a Tibetan tradition previous or currently?

As for myself, I first gained a curiosity that Amida might be of particular importance on my path after practicing phowa in the Kagyu tradition. I gained some faith at that time that he exists, and also met some people who lived in great comfort knowing that their matter of the afterlife is settled.
I was in the midst of a crisis in January 2008 and decided to dedicate myself completely to Dharma to find a way out of it.

Chose Amitabha recitation and practiced for 8 days solid so that’s how I went for refuge.

I spent the next 5 years journeying through the three vows. The late Rev George Gatenby used to teach on that.

19th - Amitabha self power recitation with other practices which was Theravada
20th - Exclusive Amitabha self power recitation
18th - Then training with a Japanese Jodo Shinshu Master in London for 4 years.

After that relaxed, practiced a few things researched Esotericism came across Garchen Rinpoche and decided to then practice Secret Mantra which was Feb 2018 until now.

My Secret Mantra practice has clarified Faith a lot, there is no conflict.
It is interesting to me that the Japanese "Vajrayana" tradition, Shingon-Shu, also uses the rhetoric of other-power in some of its rituals.

There were heterodox groups known as Kakushi Nembutsu that were banned by medieval authorities and practiced in secret for centuries in the northern part of Honshu. Although there is some uncertainty and variation, many of these groups appeared to employ hybrid Shingon/Jodo-Shinshu practices.
I practiced one then the other. When I trained in London it was more of a process than a practice as such. If I tried to bring in something else then I’m not sure the process would have worked.

But with Secret Mantra practice post that it’s been very clarifying.
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Re: The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

Post by hng1388 »

Thank you Zhen Li for your thoughts on this wonderful topic on Ajatasatru, in which Master Shinran, in his KGSS, has described himself
as an 'icchantika' - a person who lack the seed of Buddhahood. There is a short YouTube video on Ajatasatru - the story of who we
really are - that briefly talks about this subject:



Namo Amida Butsu

Gassho
Heng
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Zhen Li
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Re: The Significance of Ajātaśatru in Jōdo Shinshū

Post by Zhen Li »

hng1388 wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 1:59 am Thank you Zhen Li for your thoughts on this wonderful topic on Ajatasatru, in which Master Shinran, in his KGSS, has described himself
as an 'icchantika' - a person who lack the seed of Buddhahood. There is a short YouTube video on Ajatasatru - the story of who we
really are - that briefly talks about this subject:
Thank you Heng. I came across that some time ago, it was enjoyable.
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