Jodo Wasan

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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Jodo Wasan

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Those who truly attain shinjin
As they utter Amida’s Name,
Being mindful of the Buddha always,
Wish to respond to the great benevolence.

Jodo Wasan 1


Thought I’d start a thread to celebrate the 3 Wasans starting with the very first Jodo Wasan.

This website and teacher really helped when I trained in Jodo Shinshu under a Japanese Buddhist Master

https://www.georgegatenby.id.au/jw1.htm
steveb1
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by steveb1 »

AJP wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:44 am Those who truly attain shinjin
As they utter Amida’s Name,
Being mindful of the Buddha always,
Wish to respond to the great benevolence.

Jodo Wasan 1


Thought I’d start a thread to celebrate the 3 Wasans starting with the very first Jodo Wasan.

This website and teacher really helped when I trained in Jodo Shinshu under a Japanese Buddhist Master

https://www.georgegatenby.id.au/jw1.htm
Thank you for this. As a convert to Jodo Shinshu/Shin, I am grateful for the Wasans and all the other materials produced by Shin sages and teachers. I was grieved to learn of sensei Gatenby's recent passing. His website(s) were inspirational over the years!
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

steveb1 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:41 pm
AJP wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:44 am Those who truly attain shinjin
As they utter Amida’s Name,
Being mindful of the Buddha always,
Wish to respond to the great benevolence.

Jodo Wasan 1


Thought I’d start a thread to celebrate the 3 Wasans starting with the very first Jodo Wasan.

This website and teacher really helped when I trained in Jodo Shinshu under a Japanese Buddhist Master

https://www.georgegatenby.id.au/jw1.htm
Thank you for this. As a convert to Jodo Shinshu/Shin, I am grateful for the Wasans and all the other materials produced by Shin sages and teachers. I was grieved to learn of sensei Gatenby's recent passing. His website(s) were inspirational over the years!
He was always very genuinely kind and helpful whenever I wrote to him. Didn’t know he passed. His work on the Wasans I put up are great very accessible to Westerners in my opinion.

They helped me a lot.

May all beings find their way to the Pure Lands
steveb1
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by steveb1 »

AJP wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:20 pm
steveb1 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:41 pm
AJP wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:44 am Those who truly attain shinjin
As they utter Amida’s Name,
Being mindful of the Buddha always,
Wish to respond to the great benevolence.

Jodo Wasan 1


Thought I’d start a thread to celebrate the 3 Wasans starting with the very first Jodo Wasan.

This website and teacher really helped when I trained in Jodo Shinshu under a Japanese Buddhist Master

https://www.georgegatenby.id.au/jw1.htm
Thank you for this. As a convert to Jodo Shinshu/Shin, I am grateful for the Wasans and all the other materials produced by Shin sages and teachers. I was grieved to learn of sensei Gatenby's recent passing. His website(s) were inspirational over the years!
He was always very genuinely kind and helpful whenever I wrote to him. Didn’t know he passed. His work on the Wasans I put up are great very accessible to Westerners in my opinion.

They helped me a lot.

May all beings find their way to the Pure Lands
I am sorry to be the bearer of the sad news. I too was shocked and saddened when I heard the news from one of his friends, sensei John Paraskevopoulos. As you say, Rev. Gatenby was generous in replying to messages and he ran some beautiful Shin websites. I hope his work carries on through preservation.
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Last time I wrote to him we were talking about the role of Bodhicitta. He was very warm hearted and sincere.

Namu Amida Butsu
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by steveb1 »

AJP wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:42 pm Last time I wrote to him we were talking about the role of Bodhicitta. He was very warm hearted and sincere.

Namu Amida Butsu
Yes, I recall him as very open and kind.
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Amida's self-benefit and benefit of others have
been perfectly fulfilled as the Pure Land,
The compassionate means skillfully adorned
to lead us to take refuge.
It cannot be grasped by the mind or by words,
So take refuge in the Honoured-one beyond
conceptual understanding.

Jodo Wasan 37

https://www.georgegatenby.id.au/jw37.htm
steveb1
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by steveb1 »

AJP wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:50 pm Amida's self-benefit and benefit of others have
been perfectly fulfilled as the Pure Land,
The compassionate means skillfully adorned
to lead us to take refuge.
It cannot be grasped by the mind or by words,
So take refuge in the Honoured-one beyond
conceptual understanding.

Jodo Wasan 37

https://www.georgegatenby.id.au/jw37.htm
Nice citation. Shinjin and the Nembutsu are, as Shinran Shonin taught, "inconeivable". Yet because of their "immanent" properties, the Shin adherent can experience Amida'a "Raft from the Other Shore" even in this life.
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Amida’s got our backs
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by steveb1 »

AJP wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:21 pm Amida’s got our backs
Well said!
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Jodo Wasan 40

Trees of seven precious materials fill the land,
Mutually reflecting each other's brilliance;
The flowers, fruits, branches, and leaves all shine thus,
So take refuge in Amida, the store of virtues fulfilled
through the Primal Vow.

https://www.georgegatenby.id.au/jw40.htm
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by truthb »

Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:42 pm Last time I wrote to him we were talking about the role of Bodhicitta. He was very warm hearted and sincere.

Namu Amida Butsu
Namu Amida Butsu

Thank you for this thread, have not read the Wasans before.

Could you share more about Bodhichita and Jodo Shinshu?

Namu Amida Bu
Based on The Lotus Sutra, it is my conviction that each person who is reading this will INEVITABLY become a Fully Realized Buddha.
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

truthb wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:25 pm
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:42 pm Last time I wrote to him we were talking about the role of Bodhicitta. He was very warm hearted and sincere.

Namu Amida Butsu
Namu Amida Butsu

Thank you for this thread, have not read the Wasans before.

Could you share more about Bodhichita and Jodo Shinshu?

Namu Amida Bu
I personally think regarding Bodhicitta and Jodo Shinshu the ordinary person is a recipient of Amida’s Bodhicitta just receiving.

Unlike in Secret Mantra where it is actively developed.
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Zhen Li »

Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:35 pm
truthb wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:25 pm
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:42 pm Last time I wrote to him we were talking about the role of Bodhicitta. He was very warm hearted and sincere.

Namu Amida Butsu
Namu Amida Butsu

Thank you for this thread, have not read the Wasans before.

Could you share more about Bodhichita and Jodo Shinshu?

Namu Amida Bu
I personally think regarding Bodhicitta and Jodo Shinshu the ordinary person is a recipient of Amida’s Bodhicitta just receiving.

Unlike in Secret Mantra where it is actively developed.
There are a few understandings of bodhicitta in Vajrayāna. On the one hand there is "relative bodhicitta" which is aspiring to attain awakening and engaging in bodhisattva behaviour to attain it. "Absolute bodhicitta," on the other hand, is closer to the understanding in Jōdo Shinshū, where it might be understood as a mind that cognises emptiness.

In Shin we recognise that we are not able to cultivate or give rise to either of these minds without some mental poison and defilement mixed in, so we just depend on Amida. Since Shinjin is the Buddha's mind bestowed on us, it contains absolute bodhicitta. It's knowledge that gives rise to compassionate activity to save sentient beings after we are born in the Pure Land and return as Buddhas but does not require any progressing on a path, as it does in the conventional understanding of Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna. So, you could say we have no use for the idea of "relative bodhicitta." Of course, without one of these two kinds the distinction loses its meaning. Shinjin is a Pure Bodhicitta without any need for work on our part—Amida does the heavy lifting.
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Malcolm »

Zhen Li wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:58 am There are a few understandings of bodhicitta in Vajrayāna. On the one hand there is "relative bodhicitta" which is aspiring to attain awakening and engaging in bodhisattva behaviour to attain it. "Absolute bodhicitta," on the other hand, is closer to the understanding in Jōdo Shinshū, where it might be understood as a mind that cognises emptiness.
These two kinds of bodhicitta are common Mahayana teachings. Relative bodhicitta in Vajrayana specifically refers to bindu, the yoga of which cause the realization of ultimate bodhicitta.

The rousing of bodhicitta is always a mind free of affliction, like a lotus that grows from muck, even in an afflicted person. How one rouses it is less of an issue than rousing it. Also, rousing bodhicitta in this life is taken as proof one has done so before. Unlike other vows, which expire at death, bodhicitta vows are only taken once. The afflicted state of an individual is of no consequence at all with respect to rousing of the two bodhicittas. After all, Shakyamuni Buddha first roused bodhicitta in hell.
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by truthb »

Zhen Li wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:58 am
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:35 pm
truthb wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:25 pm

Namu Amida Butsu

Thank you for this thread, have not read the Wasans before.

Could you share more about Bodhichita and Jodo Shinshu?

Namu Amida Bu
I personally think regarding Bodhicitta and Jodo Shinshu the ordinary person is a recipient of Amida’s Bodhicitta just receiving.

Unlike in Secret Mantra where it is actively developed.
There are a few understandings of bodhicitta in Vajrayāna. On the one hand there is "relative bodhicitta" which is aspiring to attain awakening and engaging in bodhisattva behaviour to attain it. "Absolute bodhicitta," on the other hand, is closer to the understanding in Jōdo Shinshū, where it might be understood as a mind that cognises emptiness.

In Shin we recognise that we are not able to cultivate or give rise to either of these minds without some mental poison and defilement mixed in, so we just depend on Amida. Since Shinjin is the Buddha's mind bestowed on us, it contains absolute bodhicitta. It's knowledge that gives rise to compassionate activity to save sentient beings after we are born in the Pure Land and return as Buddhas but does not require any progressing on a path, as it does in the conventional understanding of Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna. So, you could say we have no use for the idea of "relative bodhicitta." Of course, without one of these two kinds the distinction loses its meaning. Shinjin is a Pure Bodhicitta without any need for work on our part—Amida does the heavy lifting.
Wow- thank you.

That is what I was sensing... that if I try to cultivate bodhichita- I would be interfering with Amida
Based on The Lotus Sutra, it is my conviction that each person who is reading this will INEVITABLY become a Fully Realized Buddha.
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Zhen Li wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:58 am
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:35 pm
truthb wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:25 pm

Namu Amida Butsu

Thank you for this thread, have not read the Wasans before.

Could you share more about Bodhichita and Jodo Shinshu?

Namu Amida Bu
I personally think regarding Bodhicitta and Jodo Shinshu the ordinary person is a recipient of Amida’s Bodhicitta just receiving.

Unlike in Secret Mantra where it is actively developed.
Amida does the heavy lifting.
I’m very confident it’s effortless
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Zhen Li »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:18 pm The rousing of bodhicitta is always a mind free of affliction, like a lotus that grows from muck, even in an afflicted person. How one rouses it is less of an issue than rousing it. ... The afflicted state of an individual is of no consequence at all with respect to rousing of the two bodhicittas.
Yes, this is the point here. There is nothing about the deluded mind that can give rise to bodhicitta. While Shinjin carries with it other qualities besides bodhicitta, it is for this reason that it is said that with Shinjin "one attains nirvāṇa without severing afflictions."
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Malcolm »

Zhen Li wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:25 am
Malcolm wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:18 pm The rousing of bodhicitta is always a mind free of affliction, like a lotus that grows from muck, even in an afflicted person. How one rouses it is less of an issue than rousing it. ... The afflicted state of an individual is of no consequence at all with respect to rousing of the two bodhicittas.
Yes, this is the point here. There is nothing about the deluded mind that can give rise to bodhicitta. While Shinjin carries with it other qualities besides bodhicitta, it is for this reason that it is said that with Shinjin "one attains nirvāṇa without severing afflictions."
You missed the point, bodhicitta (lotus) can only grow in a contaminated mind (muck).
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Re: Jodo Wasan

Post by Zhen Li »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:59 am You missed the point, bodhicitta (lotus) can only grow in a contaminated mind (muck).
That's the same point. If our mind were pure there would be no need for bodhicitta and no need for Shinjin. But it is not contamination that gives rise to purity, otherwise awakening would happen spontaneously.
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