Tatsuo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:56 am
Queequeg wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:37 am
Tatsuo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:59 pm
You cannot simply say that the last 1400 years of Buddhist practice in Japan are foreign influence
Buddhism came from India, from China, from Korea. There are Japanese who most certainly insist Buddhism is a foreign influence that has defiled Japanese culture. Don't believe me? There are nationalists who will most definitely be happy to yell at you about it.
That doesn't make it a fact that extremists are claiming this. If it did then all religions or philosophies would be foreign to almost every region they have been practiced for hundreds of years. There are right-wing extremists in Europe who would claim that Christianity is foreign to Europe. It simply doesn't matter what ridiculous beliefs extremists have. Buddhism hasn't been foreign to Japan since the Heian period.
1. Buddhism, no matter what you try and say, is not of Japanese origin. It has been adopted by Japanese and evolved in particular ways that mark it as Japanese, making it indelibly a part of Japanese culture and history... but its still foreign. This really should not be a controversial statement. Its fundamentally objective. The positive Japanese spin on this would be, the Japanese take foreign influences and make them better. Beyond evidence based facts all you have is interpretation, conjecture and spin.
2. It was a throwaway line meant as a joke. Chill. I personally don't have any particular opinion on this except that to deny the place of Buddhism in Japan is silly.
3. It is a fact that there is a strain of Shinto that views Buddhism as a foreign defilement. This goes back to ancient customs - Buddhist monks were not permitted on some shrine grounds like Ise. Try to discuss Buddhist-Shinto syncretism in the Japanese academy. Get ready for some serious backlash and bullying. They're not fringe people.
Tatsuo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:36 am
Queequeg wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:37 am
The creation myths are not about control. They are about the creation of the islands and their population.
When we look at Shinto practice, its all about supplication and seeking to please the kami so that they will be inclined to favor the people with prosperity. I'm not sure where you are getting this drive for control idea from.
The story of Ninigi is about pacifying the land and therefore about establishing control. I don't know enough about modern Shinto practice so I will not debate about this but control (of uncertainties in ones own life) is always part of prayer and I guess also in Shinto. Why would students pray at shrine for good grades if they don't expect to control the uncertainties of school exams?
I'm not sure if that's quite the story. You're referring to Ninigi, Amaterasu's grandson? Its not about prayer for control - its the origin myth of the Imperial family. Its probably the half-myth, half-oral history of the Yamato clan conquering the what's now Kansai.
Again, though - I guess you can interpret prayers as prayers for control. I would not put it that way. The prayers are offered in an attitude of supplication and reverence. There are no demands made. More like, "can you please favor me with good grades?" That's different than what I would say are prayers for control involving the subjugation of gods and directing their actions as some rituals are conceived of.
To illustrate - consider the shrine festivals. All the fun stuff that happens, the dancing, music, games, food, etc., is intended as entertainment for the gods to entice them to come and visit the shrine and hang out for a while. There is no idea that the gods and the forces of nature they represent can be controlled. All that can be done is to please them and hope they are pleased so that they will be favorable to human society.
In the shrines themselves are objects that sometimes are the dwelling place of the gods, but not always. So the mirror in the shrine is not always inhabited by the god. Its only there sometimes. Most of the time, the god is thought to be out frolicking, doing what they do. They're not sitting around in the shrine waiting for people to come and pray to them.
My point was, the gods in Japan are viewed as independent, doing their thing, not particularly concerned with humans. (For a good illustration, consider the movie My Neighbor Totoro. Totoro, the spirit of the camphor tree, is kind of indifferent to May. He let's her tag along and sometimes takes her on and adventure, but basically, he's doing his own thing. And consider the way they worship at the tree shrine.) Kami are traditionally viewed as family - ancestors or distant cousins. There isn't the kind of maniacal drive for control in the religion.
To the extent that kind of control came with esoteric Buddhism, well, so there's that.
People are always looking for advantages, but it has nuances. My point is that, Japan is subject to devastating natural forces that cannot be controlled. I would argue this is deeply woven into their religion and their national character. Sometimes you see that impulse for control burst out - I would associate that with the samurai and warrior culture. But that culture bursts forth from time to time, but then subsides, and Japanese go back to enjoying getting drunk under cherry blossoms.