Dai Gohonzon

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Minobu
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Dai Gohonzon

Post by Minobu »

after reading " Opening the Eyes of Wooden and Painted Images"
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/11
i came to a conclusion.
This comes under the heading of this gosho and shows why when chanted to it is effective.

i think faith is a barrier to chanting with any image .

even though the image becomes a Buddha, according to the enlightenment of plants..without faith there is little noticeable effect...even though the actual reward is immeasurable.

but we are trapped in the poison of samsara and it takes time to develop to the point where faith becomes knowing..

so when the Upaya is inserted into this Dai Gohonzon a great faith is mustered...

it feels like it is more than ordinary gohonzon...but this is all due to faith and one's mind set..

sometimes when we chant we talk ourselves into something..that sounds odd but , it's human nature.

the real benefit is the road to Buddhahood , but along the way many obstacles need to be overcome.

the gohonzon is an incredible instrument to bettering the human condition pre enlightenment.

Mustering faith is as important as grinding it out when you don't want to.

all are signs of what we are ..basically defiled sentients with the 3 poisons to contend with..always there always hindering...but the light of ODaimoku washes them away so a moment or two of freedom is noticed.

the Dai Gohonzon is an incredible faith producer...

I don't think it actually more of a Buddha than any actual eye opened gohonzon and the enlightenment of plants is not greater in one than the other.

but the faith that is instilled in one before chanting with the Dai gohonzon is a key to ponder about.
illarraza
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by illarraza »

Minobu wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:54 pm after reading " Opening the Eyes of Wooden and Painted Images"
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/11
i came to a conclusion.
This comes under the heading of this gosho and shows why when chanted to it is effective.

i think faith is a barrier to chanting with any image .

even though the image becomes a Buddha, according to the enlightenment of plants..without faith there is little noticeable effect...even though the actual reward is immeasurable.

but we are trapped in the poison of samsara and it takes time to develop to the point where faith becomes knowing..

so when the Upaya is inserted into this Dai Gohonzon a great faith is mustered...

it feels like it is more than ordinary gohonzon...but this is all due to faith and one's mind set..

sometimes when we chant we talk ourselves into something..that sounds odd but , it's human nature.

the real benefit is the road to Buddhahood , but along the way many obstacles need to be overcome.

the gohonzon is an incredible instrument to bettering the human condition pre enlightenment.

Mustering faith is as important as grinding it out when you don't want to.

all are signs of what we are ..basically defiled sentients with the 3 poisons to contend with..always there always hindering...but the light of ODaimoku washes them away so a moment or two of freedom is noticed.

the Dai Gohonzon is an incredible faith producer...

I don't think it actually more of a Buddha than any actual eye opened gohonzon and the enlightenment of plants is not greater in one than the other.

but the faith that is instilled in one before chanting with the Dai gohonzon is a key to ponder about.
Agreed. I would add that chanting together with five thousand?? or more was quite an experience that ramped up one's faith in the object. I think if five thousand or more people were chanting to a Nin-Honzon (statue arrangement), one's faith too would be ramped. I have other things to say about the DaiGohonzon but this is not the place to discuss it in depth.

M
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Lotomístico
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by Lotomístico »

illarraza wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:06 pm
Minobu wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:54 pm after reading " Opening the Eyes of Wooden and Painted Images"
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/11
i came to a conclusion.
This comes under the heading of this gosho and shows why when chanted to it is effective.

i think faith is a barrier to chanting with any image .

even though the image becomes a Buddha, according to the enlightenment of plants..without faith there is little noticeable effect...even though the actual reward is immeasurable.

but we are trapped in the poison of samsara and it takes time to develop to the point where faith becomes knowing..

so when the Upaya is inserted into this Dai Gohonzon a great faith is mustered...

it feels like it is more than ordinary gohonzon...but this is all due to faith and one's mind set..

sometimes when we chant we talk ourselves into something..that sounds odd but , it's human nature.

the real benefit is the road to Buddhahood , but along the way many obstacles need to be overcome.

the gohonzon is an incredible instrument to bettering the human condition pre enlightenment.

Mustering faith is as important as grinding it out when you don't want to.

all are signs of what we are ..basically defiled sentients with the 3 poisons to contend with..always there always hindering...but the light of ODaimoku washes them away so a moment or two of freedom is noticed.

the Dai Gohonzon is an incredible faith producer...

I don't think it actually more of a Buddha than any actual eye opened gohonzon and the enlightenment of plants is not greater in one than the other.

but the faith that is instilled in one before chanting with the Dai gohonzon is a key to ponder about.
Agreed. I would add that chanting together with five thousand?? or more was quite an experience that ramped up one's faith in the object. I think if five thousand or more people were chanting to a Nin-Honzon (statue arrangement), one's faith too would be ramped. I have other things to say about the DaiGohonzon but this is not the place to discuss it in depth.

M
Group dynamics perhaps, rallies and large groups do have that effect, both positive and negative as history seems to show.
If channeled positively and correctly, I think this is key.
One should become the master of one’s mind rather than let one’s mind master oneself.
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Minobu
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by Minobu »

some random thoughts.

ever think about all those gohonzon where the buddha resides ?

Chanting with all them in mind, towards a unified prayer for the BOA to be happy and safe?

It's important to realize that these eye opened gohonzon are The Buddha.

All vajrayana practices are to benefit oneself through prayer for others.

Forgetting about your own personal problems and realize they are temporary but focusing on others is the Buddha's way.

a real wish for others through compassion....is the ultimate form of happiness.

no matter what when you make another happy there is a feeling like no other...
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by reiun »

Minobu wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:02 pm some random thoughts.
Forgetting about your own personal problems and realize they are temporary but focusing on others is the Buddha's way.
As a practical matter, imo, to be fit to focus on/take care of others, one must first and always focus on/take care of oneself, i.e., take responsibility for oneself. Right action can proceed from this.
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Minobu
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by Minobu »

reiun wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:40 pm
Minobu wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:02 pm some random thoughts.
Forgetting about your own personal problems and realize they are temporary but focusing on others is the Buddha's way.
As a practical matter, imo, to be fit to focus on/take care of others, one must first and always focus on/take care of oneself, i.e., take responsibility for oneself. Right action can proceed from this.
I get what you are saying....

there is a subtlety to the concept of practicing for oneself in order to help others.

it's about volition ..

my point is the actual practice in any vajrayana practice i was taught is ..it all starts with the bodhisattva vows to dedicate yourself to the helping of others...you literally say out loud that what you are about to do is dedicated to all sentient beings.

then all visualizations include you using your Buddha Nature/ Buddha Body .. to reach others...

the whole ideal of Buddha is a selfless being who sole goal is to aid others...

worrying about whether thinking i must be happy in order to help others is sort of contrary to Bodhisattvas who are very pure and in order to appear in samsara they take on collective karma ...then work through it ....

all BOA were students of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha in the remote past...

at ceremony in the air those attending were dumbfounded by them...

When they are born on earth they appear here as morons and emotional cripples and people with huge baggage....

then work through it for the benefit of others...


it's like the tides....
reiun
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by reiun »

Minobu wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:17 pm
reiun wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:40 pm
Minobu wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:02 pm some random thoughts.
Forgetting about your own personal problems and realize they are temporary but focusing on others is the Buddha's way.
As a practical matter, imo, to be fit to focus on/take care of others, one must first and always focus on/take care of oneself, i.e., take responsibility for oneself. Right action can proceed from this.
I get what you are saying....

there is a subtlety to the concept of practicing for oneself in order to help others.

it's about volition ..

my point is the actual practice in any vajrayana practice i was taught is ..it all starts with the bodhisattva vows to dedicate yourself to the helping of others...you literally say out loud that what you are about to do is dedicated to all sentient beings.
Of course, that group would include you.
Minobu wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:17 pm then all visualizations include you using your Buddha Nature/ Buddha Body .. to reach others...
Seamlessly.
Minobu wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:17 pm the whole ideal of Buddha is a selfless being who sole goal is to aid others...

worrying about whether thinking i must be happy in order to help others is sort of contrary to Bodhisattvas who are very pure and in order to appear in samsara they take on collective karma ...then work through it ....
No worries! If you are well and competent, you are one less sentient being for another to focus on.
Minobu wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:17 pm then work through it for the benefit of others...
Right on.
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Lotomístico
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by Lotomístico »

Minobu wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:02 pm some random thoughts.

ever think about all those gohonzon where the buddha resides ?

Chanting with all them in mind, towards a unified prayer for the BOA to be happy and safe?

It's important to realize that these eye opened gohonzon are The Buddha.

All vajrayana practices are to benefit oneself through prayer for others.

Forgetting about your own personal problems and realize they are temporary but focusing on others is the Buddha's way.

a real wish for others through compassion....is the ultimate form of happiness.

no matter what when you make another happy there is a feeling like no other...
So better to take refuge in the Dai Gohonzon? I can renounce my previous beliefs and go straight to a correct, proper, eye-opened Gohonzon issued by those who have the authority to correctly issue such things? None of those bogus objects of worship, go straight to the source?
One should become the master of one’s mind rather than let one’s mind master oneself.
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Minobu
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by Minobu »

Lotomístico wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:20 am
Minobu wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:02 pm some random thoughts.

ever think about all those gohonzon where the buddha resides ?

Chanting with all them in mind, towards a unified prayer for the BOA to be happy and safe?

It's important to realize that these eye opened gohonzon are The Buddha.

All vajrayana practices are to benefit oneself through prayer for others.

Forgetting about your own personal problems and realize they are temporary but focusing on others is the Buddha's way.

a real wish for others through compassion....is the ultimate form of happiness.

no matter what when you make another happy there is a feeling like no other...
So better to take refuge in the Dai Gohonzon? I can renounce my previous beliefs and go straight to a correct, proper, eye-opened Gohonzon issued by those who have the authority to correctly issue such things? None of those bogus objects of worship, go straight to the source?
Who has the authority?
Explain bogus objects of worship please. In regards to Gohonzons.

Did you read the gosho?
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Minobu
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by Minobu »

When I use the Dai Gohonzon as an example I say so knowing the lore surrounding It is just that. Lore. Which does not mean it isn’t Buddha.
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Minobu
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by Minobu »

anyone who can ,can mimic a Nichiren gohonzon with the same ODaimoku down the centre , the whole nine yards...put it on paper or wood ..



if you do gongyo in front of it , even in one's ignorance of what it is....it becomes Buddha
WHY?


Cause ....It's inside us...it is us....

no matter who inscribed it.....

as long as it is the same formula of characters as Nichiren Shonin left us...

thats the meaning in His gosho.....

this is what the Buddha left for us an for the next 10 thousand years of Mappo...

There is not one special Gohonzon...


like i asked....ever think about all those gohonzon being Buddha all over the place...millions of them in different sects..even sects that are not ShoShu or Shu...

The sects that people are told are heretical nichiren sects....those Gohonzon are the same Buddha...


any narrative that is said otherwise ..is a power play for you....and then the control sets in....


rome did it with christianity...the pope is a vessel for the divine word of God...I went to Catholic School in Quebec...during those years they could get away with telling us The Catholic church is God's only true church...

the Crusades were based on this....it's a narrative that abuses people with religion and they are the True and Only ....


Nichiren left 6 senior priests....i believe IMHO He knew it would split and split and split due to power hungry people....but it doesn't matter ...cause the people that chant to these various sectarian Gohonzon ...all get to be with The Buddha...and due to their karma and diligent practice ...they will overcome the authoritarian man made bullshit and lore...

nichiren was exiled for attacking authority...

He left the world something that overrides any man made lore to lure you into some sect that wants to control you with ...we are the only way to gohonzon and Nichiren 's teachings..the others are slander...they will lead you to hell......


the Reality is all it takes is gongyo and ODaimoku in front of the Gohonzon for it to become this concept of eye opened..
Last edited by Minobu on Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
illarraza
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by illarraza »

Minobu wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:59 pm anyone who can ,can mimic a Nichiren gohonzon with the same ODaimoku down the centre , the whole nine yards...put it on paper or wood ..



if you do gongyo in front of it , even in one's ignorance of what it is....it becomes Buddha
WHY?


Cause ....It's inside us...it is us....

no matter who inscribed it.....

as long as it is the same formula of characters as Nichiren Shonin left us...

thats the meaning in His gosho.....

this is what the Buddha left for us an for the next 10 thousand years of Mappo...

There is not one special Gohonzon...


like i asked....ever think about all those gohonzon being Buddha all over the place...millions of them in different sects..even sects that are not ShoShu or Shu...

The sects that people are told are heretical nichiren sects....those Gohonzon are the same Buddha...


any narrative that is said otherwise ..is a power play for you....and then the control sets in....


rome did it with christianity...the pope is a vessel for the divine word of God...I went to Catholic School in Quebec...during those years they could get away with telling us The Catholic church is God's only true church...

the Crusades were based on this....it's a narrative that abuses people with religion and they are the True and Only ....


Nichiren left 6 senior priests....i believe IMHO He knew it would split and split and split due to power hungry people....but it doesn't matter ...cause the people that chant to these various sectarian Gohonzon ...all get to be with The Buddha...and due to their karma and diligent practice ...they will overcome the authoritarian man made bullshit and lore...

nichiren was exiled for attacking authority...

He left the world something that overrides any man made lore to lure you into some sect that wants to control you with ...we are the only way to gohonzon and Nichiren 's teachings..the others are slander...they will lead you to hell......


the Reality is all it takes is gongyo and ODaimoku in front of the Gohonzon for it to become this concept of eye opened..
And is your opinion about the necessity of an Eye Opening Ceremony?

mark
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Re: Dai Gohonzon

Post by narhwal90 »

Speaking as moderator, since the Dai-gohonzon is associated with Nichiren Shoshu and has historically been a sensitive topic, it would be well to leave conversation about it to those concerned.

That said, questions of authenticity etc as discussed here are pertinent to all the schools- there are many original and presumed original gohonzons with surrounding lore, so I'd be glad to split the topic into something more generally focused in the main Nichiren forum.
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