Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

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KiwiNFLFan
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Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

Post by KiwiNFLFan »

With the intense adulation that SGI members have for Ikeda, and seeing as how he is kind of the originator of the differences that led to the split with Nichiren Shoshu, is it possible that once Ikeda passes away, the SGI leadership will try to identify his next incarnation? As far as I know, the tulku system does not exist outside Tibet, not even in the Japanese Shingon lineage of Vajrayana.

So do you think it's possible that the idea of "Forever Sensei" could lead the SGI leaders to seek Ikeda's reincarnation? Presumably he would choose to be reborn into a family of SGI practitioners.

One potential problem I can see with this is that Japanese Buddhists would not know how to identify a tulku. I don't imagine there are any SGI leaders who have psychic gifts the way some Tibetan lamas do, so the only way to narrow down the search would be for Ikeda to identify before his death the circumstances of his rebirth (it's my understanding that the Karmapas do this).
Fortyeightvows
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Re: Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

Post by Fortyeightvows »

My perspective is that that would be unpredictable and dangerous from the organizations stand point.

With a leader that has passed away, it is easy to continue to propagate their haigiography and/or project whatever one wants onto that figure who becomes a symbol onto which can be projected some ideals.

If a living person is in that role then there is less control.

One could disagree with another person, but it would be harder to argue against a symbol onto which has been projected so much greatness.

That’s probably part of why he is probably not seen much now. How many SGI members have actually talked to the man?
People may not have even seen him, but they have heard soo much about how great he is.

Here is an example- if you look at fgs materials, it’s like Hsing yin hasn’t aged a day in 20 years. Every year they put out new books, but the pictures of him are all from years ago.
They are setting him up to a symbol (that they can control)
True story, they once paid big money to have a statue made of him. The sculpture made the statue look exactly like him. Unfortunately he made it look exactly how he looked at the time.
When the top monks saw the statue they said he looks too old. So they had a new statue made based on 20 year old pictures.

It’s about controlling a persons public image and with a living person it’s harder to do.

That symbol with all the meaning and greatness can be much more appealing than a living person. So even if people have never met the man themselves, they can still be so impressed by him.

For what it’s worth, I think that a lot of these touring lamas rely on the same principle.
dude
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Re: Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

Post by dude »

The Soka Gakkai from its inception has been based on the master-disciple relationship.
narhwal90
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Re: Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

Post by narhwal90 »

Personally I think he's already been "icon-ified"- note the decades long repetitions of the Human Revolution story- mostly eclipsing Makaguchi & Toda, but my guess everything is on hold until he passes away. I'm sure there are latent factions on a variety of sides that could start things changing. The lack of a "dharma successor" in the way SGI thinks about such things is an issue- that said administrative continuity has long since been established- there have been 3 different Gakki presidents since Mr Ikeda.

Personally I welcome the change- for instance I would love to see something like a "Lotus Sutra chapter of the month" in the study pubs for the sutra nerds.

OTOH I never got the master/disciple vibe from him- never met the man, or most any of the leadership in US or Japan for that matter- the important leaders I've responded to have always been local folks that I've gotten to know face-to-face.
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Queequeg
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Re: Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

Post by Queequeg »

KiwiNFLFan wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:50 am With the intense adulation that SGI members have for Ikeda, and seeing as how he is kind of the originator of the differences that led to the split with Nichiren Shoshu, is it possible that once Ikeda passes away, the SGI leadership will try to identify his next incarnation? As far as I know, the tulku system does not exist outside Tibet, not even in the Japanese Shingon lineage of Vajrayana.

So do you think it's possible that the idea of "Forever Sensei" could lead the SGI leaders to seek Ikeda's reincarnation? Presumably he would choose to be reborn into a family of SGI practitioners.

One potential problem I can see with this is that Japanese Buddhists would not know how to identify a tulku. I don't imagine there are any SGI leaders who have psychic gifts the way some Tibetan lamas do, so the only way to narrow down the search would be for Ikeda to identify before his death the circumstances of his rebirth (it's my understanding that the Karmapas do this).
No. He will (has been) deified in the Japanese custom. Consider Shinto sensibilities. Whether he becomes a deity that people pray to for favor will depend on how his memory evolves.

Tulku system is wholly unheard of in the Japanese context.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Minobu
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Re: Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

Post by Minobu »

he used to chain smoke..how he lived this long is a testament to something ..yes / no ?

does he still smoke.
dude
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Re: Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

Post by dude »

When did he smoke?
shaunc
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Re: Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

Post by shaunc »

I can't speak for ikeda specifically but the Japanese people are the 2nd highest rate of cigarette smoking per capita in the world.
Funnily enough they also have the lowest cancer rate and are also one of the longest lived people in the world.
Maybe due to diet or genetics or a combination of both
Matylda
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Re: Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

Post by Matylda »

I do not think that it is possible in Japan, nobody would consider a child to be special kind of spiritual leader, like tulku in Tibet. As far as I know even in India there was never such system.
In Japan in fact some people could be considered kind emenation or incarnation of bosatsu, bodhisattva, but only based on their actual achievments and some special activity. Thay are called by faithful IKIBOTOKE, what means a 'living buddha'. But there is no special recognition system of children as such.

Outside of Japanese Buddhism one may find in Japanese shinto religion kind of recognition. It concerns gods of particular shrines. People who are recognized are sometimes very young, sometimes already adults. And they have to show special qualities and spiritual powers. Youngest I know about was a tennager and she was recognized a few years earlier. Mostly they come by themselves to 'their' shrine and announce themselves, but of course they have to give clear proof. This shrines mostly have unbroken tradition of returning god or goddess so it is known what powers they should manifest therefore the exam is not hazy, but rather precise.
I do not remember how many of them are around the country but probably about 800. Maybe less maybe more. So it is not difficult to meet or find them. One I did not meet but heard about one, very close to my house, a lady and she was spontanues singer of religious songs. Thos I heard recorded were all about aspiration of bodaishin - bodhicitta. Thye were very moving. She sat alone in the shrine, and songs were out of the blue, did not matter if anyone was there or not. Friend of mine recorded her so I could listen, but never went to see her. Anyway I knew the place very well, there are many shrines and buddhist temples.

But i did not hear about even one buddhist temple with that kind of tradition in Japan of recognizing past master etc... though I heard of one case of rinzai roshi who had very vivid recollection of his previous life. One more case. I know of one masgter who gave kind of detailed prophecy of his next rebirth, but it did not happen as far as I know.
HePo
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Re: Could Ikeda "become" a tulku?

Post by HePo »

shaunc wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:03 am I can't speak for ikeda specifically but the Japanese people are the 2nd highest rate of cigarette smoking per capita in the world.
....
Perhaps you meant "32nd highest rate " that would be more accurate List of countries by cigarette consumption per capita.
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