Is world domination SGI’s goal?

dude
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by dude »

Oh, those guys. Yes, they're one of very few such movements we know anything about in the west, infamous for some crimes committed in its name.
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Budai
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Budai »

Okay, okay, that's terrible, but it has nothing to do with SGI which has always been peaceful Buddhism that has actually Shakyamuni's ideals in play. Read here about Soka Gakkai's Kosen-Rufu standard. It is very important to SGI and it's goals is to propigate the understanding of the Lotus Sutra which is highly venerated in Buddhism and the Nam Myoho Renge Kyo mantra which anyone can chant without any expenditure or loss. That is my sincerest reply. Om.

In fact what SGI is doing is the ideal of the Bodhisattva.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.
Last edited by Budai on Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Queequeg
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Queequeg »

Yes.

Quite irresponsible to bring up Aum in the context of this thread. SG with its flaws is not comparable to Aum at all.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Queequeg wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:40 pm Yes.

Quite irresponsible to bring up Aum in the context of this thread. SG with its flaws is not comparable to Aum at all.
The comparison is strictly over the issue of encouraging people to convert to a Buddhist sect.
In that regard, any organizations which actively proselytize, who try to win new converts, regardless of whether it’s aum shinrikyo, SGI, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or the Hari Krishnas, falls under that category. It doesn’t mean that their internal doctrines have anything in common.

Please examine the dialogue leading up to this point:

soma999:
“There have been many who wanted to convert the world. It has never brought any good.
I met a japanese sect into this kind of energy. Very dangerous people... in sheep cloths. At a time, they even performed harsh action to convert people. I won’t give”

Dude:
“Tell me about these harsh conversion methods.“

Padma Von Samba:
“ I think it’s a reference to Aum Shinrikyo”

If you refer back to the original post, I think you will agree that this line of conversation is not out of keeping with the topic.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook develops outward insight.
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Queequeg
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Queequeg »

No. The comparison is outrageous and inflammatory. Its like saying Democratic Socialists are comparable to Nazis because they both advance a notion of social consciousness.

Get over yourself.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Queequeg wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:30 pm No. The comparison is outrageous and inflammatory. Its like saying Democratic Socialists are comparable to Nazis because they both advance a notion of social consciousness.

Get over yourself.
It’s comparable to saying they share in common a view of changing the world by attracting more supporters and members. It’s not a question of their internal content.

I’m not the one saying that by intending to convert, that therefore SGI and other groups who hope to convert people are the same, or that seeking to convert others always leads to a bad ending.

Perhaps you should direct your objection to the comment by soma999 who stated that:
“... There have been many who wanted to convert the world. It has never brought any good.”
(About eight posts prior to this one).
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook develops outward insight.
Malcolm
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Malcolm »

Axiom 1: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and non-Nichiren Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 2: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and other Nichirin Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 3: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism are best avoided.
"Conceptuality is great ignorance,
causing one to fall into the ocean of samsāra."
—Māyājālamahātantra
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Shotenzenjin
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Shotenzenjin »

Funny
Generation's shall pass, our determination shall grow, at the foot of Mount Fuji
Like smoke that reaches far beyond the clouds.--nichimoku shonin. Third high priest of Nichiren Shoshu

Hokekko of true Buddhism https://nstny.org

Introduction to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... VKyEQ_cxK9
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

An interesting link on the Kenshokai, referenced earlier in this thread.

http://www.geocities.ws/chris_holte/Bud ... hokai.html
...Indeed, the leader's son talks of ultimately attracting every living Japanese soul—all 130 million of them—to the fold.

"I'm sure it will happen," says Katsue Asai, matter-of-factly.
How long will it take?

"A bit more than 10 years. At the most, 20 years. This might sound strange,"
he says,

"but we think this is not only about Japan, but the whole universe. A huge power is coming, sometime soon. Society is getting really confused these days. There are problems with education, all the political scandals. Then there will be a big natural disaster, like an earthquake. Then China will come to invade us, to take advantage of our problems. When that happens, people will feel that whatever it was they believed in is inadequate. That's when they'll come to us."
This is the Nichiren group that is the closest thing to one with designs on "taking over the world."
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:50 pm Axiom 1: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and non-Nichiren Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 2: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and other Nichirin Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 3: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism are best avoided.
I love talking about Nichiren and am not a Nichiren Buddhist.

Because I come with an almost anthropological detachment to the topic, I make no judgements. I am merely interested in Nichiren doxography and theology as abstract propositions.

I've never felt attacked or flamed by a Nichiren Buddhist on this board and respect most of them as valuable sources of interesting information.

The occasional contextless wall of text Gosho quotation blitz is the only drawback, and once identified they can be scrolled past. :smile:
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi
Malcolm
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Malcolm »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:18 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:50 pm Axiom 1: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and non-Nichiren Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 2: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and other Nichirin Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 3: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism are best avoided.
I love talking about Nichiren and am not a Nichiren Buddhist.

Because I come with an almost anthropological detachment to the topic, I make no judgements. I am merely interested in Nichiren doxography and theology as abstract propositions.

I've never felt attacked or flamed by a Nichiren Buddhist on this board and respect most of them as valuable sources of interesting information.

The occasional contextless wall of text Gosho quotation blitz is the only drawback, and once identified they can be scrolled past. :smile:
There are always innocent bystanders...
"Conceptuality is great ignorance,
causing one to fall into the ocean of samsāra."
—Māyājālamahātantra
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:37 pm There are always innocent bystanders...
That's me.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi
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Queequeg
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:50 pm Axiom 1: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and non-Nichiren Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 2: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and other Nichirin Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 3: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism are best avoided.
I see you brought a flamethrower yourself.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
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Queequeg
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Queequeg »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:46 pm
Queequeg wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:30 pm No. The comparison is outrageous and inflammatory. Its like saying Democratic Socialists are comparable to Nazis because they both advance a notion of social consciousness.

Get over yourself.
It’s comparable to saying they share in common a view of changing the world by attracting more supporters and members. It’s not a question of their internal content.

I’m not the one saying that by intending to convert, that therefore SGI and other groups who hope to convert people are the same, or that seeking to convert others always leads to a bad ending.

Perhaps you should direct your objection to the comment by soma999 who stated that:
“... There have been many who wanted to convert the world. It has never brought any good.”
(About eight posts prior to this one).
So you want to double down?

Ridiculous. Do you even know what you're talking about? SG is an easy target to criticize, but comparing them to a group that tried to immanentize armageddon with sarin gas in a train station is national enquirer level lazy. I hope that's not the effort you put into your other endeavors.

And as for the whole question of saving all beings, it's comical when people who regard bodhisattva vows to save all beings positively get condescending when some people actually try to do it.

Smh
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
Malcolm
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:12 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:46 pm
Queequeg wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:30 pm No. The comparison is outrageous and inflammatory. Its like saying Democratic Socialists are comparable to Nazis because they both advance a notion of social consciousness.

Get over yourself.
It’s comparable to saying they share in common a view of changing the world by attracting more supporters and members. It’s not a question of their internal content.

I’m not the one saying that by intending to convert, that therefore SGI and other groups who hope to convert people are the same, or that seeking to convert others always leads to a bad ending.

Perhaps you should direct your objection to the comment by soma999 who stated that:
“... There have been many who wanted to convert the world. It has never brought any good.”
(About eight posts prior to this one).
So you want to double down?

Ridiculous. Do you even know what you're talking about? SG is an easy target to criticize, but comparing them to a group that tried to immanentize armageddon with sarin gas in a train station is national enquirer level lazy. I hope that's not the effort you put into your other endeavors.

And as for the whole question of saving all beings, it's comical when people who regard bodhisattva vows to save all beings positively get condescending when some people actually try to do it.

Smh
Proof of Axiom 1.
"Conceptuality is great ignorance,
causing one to fall into the ocean of samsāra."
—Māyājālamahātantra
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

I’ve had SGI people try to ‘convert’ me. It was pretty gentle. Thoroughly unconvincing to me. but gentle. I am sure there are a range of approaches.

It’s not like notion of preaching is unknown elsewhere in the Mahayana, Not something to be taken personally.

Additionally, I am not sure that Nichiren is much worse for online conversation either, just a different flavor when people get preachy. I’ve been on enough FB Buddhist groups before leaving it to see some crap behavior across the board.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttadinesso
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Queequeg
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:14 pm
Queequeg wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:12 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:46 pm

It’s comparable to saying they share in common a view of changing the world by attracting more supporters and members. It’s not a question of their internal content.

I’m not the one saying that by intending to convert, that therefore SGI and other groups who hope to convert people are the same, or that seeking to convert others always leads to a bad ending.

Perhaps you should direct your objection to the comment by soma999 who stated that:
“... There have been many who wanted to convert the world. It has never brought any good.”
(About eight posts prior to this one).
So you want to double down?

Ridiculous. Do you even know what you're talking about? SG is an easy target to criticize, but comparing them to a group that tried to immanentize armageddon with sarin gas in a train station is national enquirer level lazy. I hope that's not the effort you put into your other endeavors.

And as for the whole question of saving all beings, it's comical when people who regard bodhisattva vows to save all beings positively get condescending when some people actually try to do it.

Smh
Proof of Axiom 1.
Nah. Your interjection in this thread was you performing Axiom 1.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
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Queequeg
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Queequeg »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:21 pm I’ve had SGI people try to ‘convert’ me. It was pretty gentle. Thoroughly unconvincing to me. but gentle. I am sure there are a range of approaches.

It’s not like notion of preaching is unknown elsewhere in the Mahayana, Not something to be taken personally.
This. In the scheme of things, they're harmless. And if intension is really the key, having a bunch of people chanting for happiness and world peace and wanting people to join them - I could think of much worse.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
Malcolm
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:23 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:14 pm
Queequeg wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:12 pm

So you want to double down?

Ridiculous. Do you even know what you're talking about? SG is an easy target to criticize, but comparing them to a group that tried to immanentize armageddon with sarin gas in a train station is national enquirer level lazy. I hope that's not the effort you put into your other endeavors.

And as for the whole question of saving all beings, it's comical when people who regard bodhisattva vows to save all beings positively get condescending when some people actually try to do it.

Smh
Proof of Axiom 1.
Nah. Your interjection in this thread was you performing Axiom 1.
Nah, just a clinical observation of based 25 years of observation. You’re not even old enough to remember the Nam/namu Usenet war of 1995. :smile:
"Conceptuality is great ignorance,
causing one to fall into the ocean of samsāra."
—Māyājālamahātantra
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Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?

Post by narhwal90 »

lol, that one made the 1997 usenet Nam/Namu flamewar look like the one from 1998.
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