What does Buddhism say about gender?

If you're new to the forum or new to Buddhism, this is the best place for your questions. Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:31 pm
Ardha wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:23 pmIf it’s all an illusion how can I say I’m happy about something when I know it’s not ultimately real.
Obviously, because many things probably already do make you happy.
...and they aren’t “real”.

:jumping:

The happiness is still “real”.
Have you ever had a really nice dream, and then when you woke up you still felt happy from it?
That occurs even though what happens in a dream isn’t “real”.
Not really. Once I know the dream was not real it just makes me sad. The happiness wasn’t real, it just appeared as such. Once is happy in a dream because they don’t know it’s a dream, once they do any feelings about it evaporate. Fear goes away, at least in my case (once unfortunately, too many nightmares) and so do joy once you see the people in there don’t exist and neither does anything else in there. What you do does not matter because it’s lot real, though that is often used to soothe bad nightmares.

Though my nightmares sometimes leave me questioning my psyche sometimes.

I can say the same in real life. In the case of friends I had people who I thought I was friendly with but it was all in my head. They just pretended to be nice for something or they weren’t what I thought they were, so I was crushed. It wasn’t real. It’s similar with video games and movies. Once I remember that it’s not real much of the magic is lost in the art. I hope I’m getting my point across. When you see it as a “dream” the joy vanishes. I felt it and I have known others who have too. That’s why the goal of such entertainment is to make you forget it’s an illusion.

It reminds me of some Hindu (I think) guru who mentioned sexual pleasure isn’t real or an illusion. Couldn’t remember the specifics just that it sounded very toxic for a supposedly mystic man.
User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 4604
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Aemilius »

On the contrary, joy does not vanish if you realize it as a dream. Once I became conscious in a dream, I was standing on a bridge. I decided to jump into the river below because it is just a dream. I fell into the water and the water disappeared, there was no water, it was just light or clarity that creates the illusion of water. Also I didn't hurt myself at all.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17090
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Ardha wrote: Not really. Once I know the dream was not real it just makes me sad. The happiness wasn’t real, it just appeared as such. Once is happy in a dream because they don’t know it’s a dream, once they do any feelings about it evaporate. Fear goes away, at least in my case (once unfortunately, too many nightmares) and so do joy once you see the people in there don’t exist and neither does anything else in there. What you do does not matter because it’s lot real, though that is often used to soothe bad nightmares.
This is the nihilistic point of view - the idea that "nothing exists", but this not what Buddhism says, and the Buddha argued with people who took this view in his time. What Buddhism says is that these things do not exist in the manner they appear to us, and that our perception of how they exist is not real.

I can say the same in real life. In the case of friends I had people who I thought I was friendly with but it was all in my head. They just pretended to be nice for something or they weren’t what I thought they were, so I was crushed. It wasn’t real. It’s similar with video games and movies. Once I remember that it’s not real much of the magic is lost in the art. I hope I’m getting my point across. When you see it as a “dream” the joy vanishes. I felt it and I have known others who have too. That’s why the goal of such entertainment is to make you forget it’s an illusion.
You're not getting your point across because you have spent literally months posting this kind of stuff on a Buddhist site, where you haven't bothered to actually learn about Buddhist ideas, but still insist on making all these silly "counter" arguments forged mainly on ignorance of the subject matter.
It reminds me of some Hindu (I think) guru who mentioned sexual pleasure isn’t real or an illusion. Couldn’t remember the specifics just that it sounded very toxic for a supposedly mystic man.
If you took the statement the way you seem to take things here, you just accepted your immediate interpretation of his words and didn't bother digging deeper or educating yourself further anyway, so your critique of him doesn't mean much. Maybe it's worth actually trying to understand what people are saying, instead of just assuming you get it right off the bat.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
muni
Posts: 5559
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by muni »

Ardha wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:28 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:31 pm
Ardha wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:23 pmIf it’s all an illusion how can I say I’m happy about something when I know it’s not ultimately real.
Obviously, because many things probably already do make you happy.
...and they aren’t “real”.

:jumping:

The happiness is still “real”.
Have you ever had a really nice dream, and then when you woke up you still felt happy from it?
That occurs even though what happens in a dream isn’t “real”.
Not really. Once I know the dream was not real it just makes me sad. The happiness wasn’t real, it just appeared as such. Once is happy in a dream because they don’t know it’s a dream, once they do any feelings about it evaporate. Fear goes away, at least in my case (once unfortunately, too many nightmares) and so do joy once you see the people in there don’t exist and neither does anything else in there. What you do does not matter because it’s lot real, though that is often used to soothe bad nightmares.

Though my nightmares sometimes leave me questioning my psyche sometimes.

I can say the same in real life. In the case of friends I had people who I thought I was friendly with but it was all in my head. They just pretended to be nice for something or they weren’t what I thought they were, so I was crushed. It wasn’t real. It’s similar with video games and movies. Once I remember that it’s not real much of the magic is lost in the art. I hope I’m getting my point across. When you see it as a “dream” the joy vanishes. I felt it and I have known others who have too. That’s why the goal of such entertainment is to make you forget it’s an illusion.

It reminds me of some Hindu (I think) guru who mentioned sexual pleasure isn’t real or an illusion. Couldn’t remember the specifics just that it sounded very toxic for a supposedly mystic man.
Hello Ardha, I am sorry you have these nightmares. I know these too, even in daytime. How to call that? Daymares?

Nightmare would not be possible without falling in the stream of our thoughts. It is all the thinking mind we believe we are and nothing more. We do not see how this thinking or these thoughts flow constantly. We believe that is what we are, just thinking, and thinking makes all so solid, colours everything as everything would be really so, independent...

How for example could clouds be without the spacious sky? In same way thoughts cannot be without the space of our mind. 'If we are that spacious mind' then thoughts can flow.

*Therefore we need awaken guidance! Or A meditation guidance could start to help.*

There is said lets tame our mind, or let us not be a slave of our mind. We are a slave of it when we are lost in the stream of thoughts. We need help to come out of this or at least we can be helped to start to see that. Real or unreal, don't worry, be happy.

May all be happy, the happiness of not being constantly dragged away by thoughts. The stream of thoughts is having... space... in... between.

When real and unreal both
Are absent from before the mind,
Nothing else remains for mind to do
But rest in perfect peace,
From concept free.

~ Shantideva
muni
Posts: 5559
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by muni »

This tread is about gender. What Buddhism say about? Respect all for not to fall into judgements which are our own grasping/shortcomings?
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

muni wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:14 am
Ardha wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:28 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:31 pm
Obviously, because many things probably already do make you happy.
...and they aren’t “real”.

:jumping:

The happiness is still “real”.
Have you ever had a really nice dream, and then when you woke up you still felt happy from it?
That occurs even though what happens in a dream isn’t “real”.
Not really. Once I know the dream was not real it just makes me sad. The happiness wasn’t real, it just appeared as such. Once is happy in a dream because they don’t know it’s a dream, once they do any feelings about it evaporate. Fear goes away, at least in my case (once unfortunately, too many nightmares) and so do joy once you see the people in there don’t exist and neither does anything else in there. What you do does not matter because it’s lot real, though that is often used to soothe bad nightmares.

Though my nightmares sometimes leave me questioning my psyche sometimes.

I can say the same in real life. In the case of friends I had people who I thought I was friendly with but it was all in my head. They just pretended to be nice for something or they weren’t what I thought they were, so I was crushed. It wasn’t real. It’s similar with video games and movies. Once I remember that it’s not real much of the magic is lost in the art. I hope I’m getting my point across. When you see it as a “dream” the joy vanishes. I felt it and I have known others who have too. That’s why the goal of such entertainment is to make you forget it’s an illusion.

It reminds me of some Hindu (I think) guru who mentioned sexual pleasure isn’t real or an illusion. Couldn’t remember the specifics just that it sounded very toxic for a supposedly mystic man.
Hello Ardha, I am sorry you have these nightmares. I know these too, even in daytime. How to call that? Daymares?

Nightmare would not be possible without falling in the stream of our thoughts. It is all the thinking mind we believe we are and nothing more. We do not see how this thinking or these thoughts flow constantly. We believe that is what we are, just thinking, and thinking makes all so solid, colours everything as everything would be really so, independent...

How for example could clouds be without the spacious sky? In same way thoughts cannot be without the space of our mind. 'If we are that spacious mind' then thoughts can flow.

*Therefore we need awaken guidance! Or A meditation guidance could start to help.*

There is said lets tame our mind, or let us not be a slave of our mind. We are a slave of it when we are lost in the stream of thoughts. We need help to come out of this or at least we can be helped to start to see that. Real or unreal, don't worry, be happy.

May all be happy, the happiness of not being constantly dragged away by thoughts. The stream of thoughts is having... space... in... between.

When real and unreal both
Are absent from before the mind,
Nothing else remains for mind to do
But rest in perfect peace,
From concept free.

~ Shantideva
I mean, thinking is what we are. We are always doing it even at the unconscious level. Though I don’t think that nightmares are what you say. They aren’t thought. I can’t say what they are but thoughts they are not.


To the rest yes on the Hindu guy I checked and it was as I said. I couldn’t remember the specifics but the summary is that sex was either evil or the pleasure one got was not real pleasure. There was no lesson in his words they are as mentioned (and to be honest I’m a little sick of people defending such talk as “you don’t get it”, in this case he meant what he said).
Aemilius wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:08 am On the contrary, joy does not vanish if you realize it as a dream. Once I became conscious in a dream, I was standing on a bridge. I decided to jump into the river below because it is just a dream. I fell into the water and the water disappeared, there was no water, it was just light or clarity that creates the illusion of water. Also I didn't hurt myself at all.
I became aware it was a dream and joy vanished because I knew that what was happening wasn’t real. The good part of dreams for me is not knowing they are a dream. Same with movies or video games. Where I to remain aware they were just those things and nothing else there would be no point in watching or playing them. It’s the same in a dream. Once I’m aware all the emotion goes away and it’s like being trapped in a prison.

I have made an effort to learn about Buddhism but as I said the books seem to be mixed on what is good or not and there aren’t any teachers where I live. Anything that seems like it around here is often a scam for your money or something bordering on cultish. I’ve read books and emailed teachers but it doesn’t get any clearer. Especially the illusion stuff. I get a lot of mixed interpretations.

I know that nothing lasts and that things end. I didn’t need Buddhism to know that. However Buddhism made it sound like it was a waste of time to chase such thing. Well “chase” isn’t the exact word I’d use, more like pursue or want. IE: wanting friends or love, seeking a career or something you want to do with your life, hobbies, etc. Most books I read at the time said there was no point to such things because they don’t last and you need to abandon them for lasting peace. Not exactly a great thing for a college student trying to earn a degree (and not knowing what they want) to read. It stifled and tripped me up in life. I didn’t really care about school or my hobbies because “attachment bad” and friends and lovers were “illusions”. I began to take my dispassion (well more like getting really excited about a field and then dumping it a week later, makes it hard to achieve anything when you get hyped and feel like “this is it” and then soon after you can’t be bothered) as a good thing because I wasn’t attached to the world.

When I asked a monk I saw at a center (now closed, was years ago) about it he didn’t really help. Just said you’re too young to get it but that doesn’t really help someone because it feels like there’s a time limit before I have to toss all I love. Didn’t really help when I began to read stuff suggesting things were illusions and not real. Now gender came up and it just muddled things even more.
Bristollad
Posts: 1122
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:39 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Bristollad »

It is better you act to benefit yourself and others in this life, so if talk of emptiness has made you doubt the point of doing anything and made your life worse, then disregard it.

Concentrate on avoiding the 10 nonvirtuous actions, but when they happen, acknowledge and endeavour not to repeat them. Make friends, enjoy a career, and, if you're lucky, someone to share your life and perhaps even a family. Buddhism is not about removing the joy from our lives but about removing suffering.

As Ayu (I think) many posts ago mentioned, avoiding sexual misconduct means acting in a way that doesn't bring harm to yourself or your partners, being honest and caring. Other than that, it's mostly guidance along cultural lines and these of course should change as our culture changes.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 4604
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Aemilius »

Ardha wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:00 am
muni wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:14 am
Ardha wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:28 am
Not really. Once I know the dream was not real it just makes me sad. The happiness wasn’t real, it just appeared as such. Once is happy in a dream because they don’t know it’s a dream, once they do any feelings about it evaporate. Fear goes away, at least in my case (once unfortunately, too many nightmares) and so do joy once you see the people in there don’t exist and neither does anything else in there. What you do does not matter because it’s lot real, though that is often used to soothe bad nightmares.

Though my nightmares sometimes leave me questioning my psyche sometimes.

I can say the same in real life. In the case of friends I had people who I thought I was friendly with but it was all in my head. They just pretended to be nice for something or they weren’t what I thought they were, so I was crushed. It wasn’t real. It’s similar with video games and movies. Once I remember that it’s not real much of the magic is lost in the art. I hope I’m getting my point across. When you see it as a “dream” the joy vanishes. I felt it and I have known others who have too. That’s why the goal of such entertainment is to make you forget it’s an illusion.

It reminds me of some Hindu (I think) guru who mentioned sexual pleasure isn’t real or an illusion. Couldn’t remember the specifics just that it sounded very toxic for a supposedly mystic man.
Hello Ardha, I am sorry you have these nightmares. I know these too, even in daytime. How to call that? Daymares?

Nightmare would not be possible without falling in the stream of our thoughts. It is all the thinking mind we believe we are and nothing more. We do not see how this thinking or these thoughts flow constantly. We believe that is what we are, just thinking, and thinking makes all so solid, colours everything as everything would be really so, independent...

How for example could clouds be without the spacious sky? In same way thoughts cannot be without the space of our mind. 'If we are that spacious mind' then thoughts can flow.

*Therefore we need awaken guidance! Or A meditation guidance could start to help.*

There is said lets tame our mind, or let us not be a slave of our mind. We are a slave of it when we are lost in the stream of thoughts. We need help to come out of this or at least we can be helped to start to see that. Real or unreal, don't worry, be happy.

May all be happy, the happiness of not being constantly dragged away by thoughts. The stream of thoughts is having... space... in... between.

When real and unreal both
Are absent from before the mind,
Nothing else remains for mind to do
But rest in perfect peace,
From concept free.

~ Shantideva
I mean, thinking is what we are. We are always doing it even at the unconscious level. Though I don’t think that nightmares are what you say. They aren’t thought. I can’t say what they are but thoughts they are not.


To the rest yes on the Hindu guy I checked and it was as I said. I couldn’t remember the specifics but the summary is that sex was either evil or the pleasure one got was not real pleasure. There was no lesson in his words they are as mentioned (and to be honest I’m a little sick of people defending such talk as “you don’t get it”, in this case he meant what he said).
Aemilius wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:08 am On the contrary, joy does not vanish if you realize it as a dream. Once I became conscious in a dream, I was standing on a bridge. I decided to jump into the river below because it is just a dream. I fell into the water and the water disappeared, there was no water, it was just light or clarity that creates the illusion of water. Also I didn't hurt myself at all.
I became aware it was a dream and joy vanished because I knew that what was happening wasn’t real. The good part of dreams for me is not knowing they are a dream. Same with movies or video games. Where I to remain aware they were just those things and nothing else there would be no point in watching or playing them. It’s the same in a dream. Once I’m aware all the emotion goes away and it’s like being trapped in a prison.

I have made an effort to learn about Buddhism but as I said the books seem to be mixed on what is good or not and there aren’t any teachers where I live. Anything that seems like it around here is often a scam for your money or something bordering on cultish. I’ve read books and emailed teachers but it doesn’t get any clearer. Especially the illusion stuff. I get a lot of mixed interpretations.

I know that nothing lasts and that things end. I didn’t need Buddhism to know that. However Buddhism made it sound like it was a waste of time to chase such thing. Well “chase” isn’t the exact word I’d use, more like pursue or want. IE: wanting friends or love, seeking a career or something you want to do with your life, hobbies, etc. Most books I read at the time said there was no point to such things because they don’t last and you need to abandon them for lasting peace. Not exactly a great thing for a college student trying to earn a degree (and not knowing what they want) to read. It stifled and tripped me up in life. I didn’t really care about school or my hobbies because “attachment bad” and friends and lovers were “illusions”. I began to take my dispassion (well more like getting really excited about a field and then dumping it a week later, makes it hard to achieve anything when you get hyped and feel like “this is it” and then soon after you can’t be bothered) as a good thing because I wasn’t attached to the world.

When I asked a monk I saw at a center (now closed, was years ago) about it he didn’t really help. Just said you’re too young to get it but that doesn’t really help someone because it feels like there’s a time limit before I have to toss all I love. Didn’t really help when I began to read stuff suggesting things were illusions and not real. Now gender came up and it just muddled things even more.
You should try parachuting or skydiving or something quite hard in that category. After that you will become joyful for being alive, never mind the if it is a "dream" or "not dream" or other concepts like "real" or "not real"! Throw them away!
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
User avatar
clyde
Posts: 742
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:17 am
Location: Walnut Creek, CA

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by clyde »

Ardha,

Whatever the world is, real or illusion, mind or matter,
whatever the world is - we are of the same nature.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

Aemilius wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:03 pm
Ardha wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:00 am
muni wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:14 am

Hello Ardha, I am sorry you have these nightmares. I know these too, even in daytime. How to call that? Daymares?

Nightmare would not be possible without falling in the stream of our thoughts. It is all the thinking mind we believe we are and nothing more. We do not see how this thinking or these thoughts flow constantly. We believe that is what we are, just thinking, and thinking makes all so solid, colours everything as everything would be really so, independent...

How for example could clouds be without the spacious sky? In same way thoughts cannot be without the space of our mind. 'If we are that spacious mind' then thoughts can flow.

*Therefore we need awaken guidance! Or A meditation guidance could start to help.*

There is said lets tame our mind, or let us not be a slave of our mind. We are a slave of it when we are lost in the stream of thoughts. We need help to come out of this or at least we can be helped to start to see that. Real or unreal, don't worry, be happy.

May all be happy, the happiness of not being constantly dragged away by thoughts. The stream of thoughts is having... space... in... between.

When real and unreal both
Are absent from before the mind,
Nothing else remains for mind to do
But rest in perfect peace,
From concept free.

~ Shantideva
I mean, thinking is what we are. We are always doing it even at the unconscious level. Though I don’t think that nightmares are what you say. They aren’t thought. I can’t say what they are but thoughts they are not.


To the rest yes on the Hindu guy I checked and it was as I said. I couldn’t remember the specifics but the summary is that sex was either evil or the pleasure one got was not real pleasure. There was no lesson in his words they are as mentioned (and to be honest I’m a little sick of people defending such talk as “you don’t get it”, in this case he meant what he said).
Aemilius wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:08 am On the contrary, joy does not vanish if you realize it as a dream. Once I became conscious in a dream, I was standing on a bridge. I decided to jump into the river below because it is just a dream. I fell into the water and the water disappeared, there was no water, it was just light or clarity that creates the illusion of water. Also I didn't hurt myself at all.
I became aware it was a dream and joy vanished because I knew that what was happening wasn’t real. The good part of dreams for me is not knowing they are a dream. Same with movies or video games. Where I to remain aware they were just those things and nothing else there would be no point in watching or playing them. It’s the same in a dream. Once I’m aware all the emotion goes away and it’s like being trapped in a prison.

I have made an effort to learn about Buddhism but as I said the books seem to be mixed on what is good or not and there aren’t any teachers where I live. Anything that seems like it around here is often a scam for your money or something bordering on cultish. I’ve read books and emailed teachers but it doesn’t get any clearer. Especially the illusion stuff. I get a lot of mixed interpretations.

I know that nothing lasts and that things end. I didn’t need Buddhism to know that. However Buddhism made it sound like it was a waste of time to chase such thing. Well “chase” isn’t the exact word I’d use, more like pursue or want. IE: wanting friends or love, seeking a career or something you want to do with your life, hobbies, etc. Most books I read at the time said there was no point to such things because they don’t last and you need to abandon them for lasting peace. Not exactly a great thing for a college student trying to earn a degree (and not knowing what they want) to read. It stifled and tripped me up in life. I didn’t really care about school or my hobbies because “attachment bad” and friends and lovers were “illusions”. I began to take my dispassion (well more like getting really excited about a field and then dumping it a week later, makes it hard to achieve anything when you get hyped and feel like “this is it” and then soon after you can’t be bothered) as a good thing because I wasn’t attached to the world.

When I asked a monk I saw at a center (now closed, was years ago) about it he didn’t really help. Just said you’re too young to get it but that doesn’t really help someone because it feels like there’s a time limit before I have to toss all I love. Didn’t really help when I began to read stuff suggesting things were illusions and not real. Now gender came up and it just muddled things even more.
You should try parachuting or skydiving or something quite hard in that category. After that you will become joyful for being alive, never mind the if it is a "dream" or "not dream" or other concepts like "real" or "not real"! Throw them away!
I’ve done that since I first learned about the illusion stuff in Buddhism but it didn’t help. Everything was tainted by “not being real” or an illusion. Made it hard to find joy in anything if it’s not real.

I’ve also tried forgetting Buddhism since it didn’t help me and only hurt me but I can’t move past that it’s the truth and ignoring it is admitting defeat or choosing to suffer and be wrong.
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9439
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Sorry, but it doesn’t sound as though anything has been given up at all. Still holding onto everything.
More like having one’s shoes on the wrong feet. They are on, but somehow it’s not right.

Buddhism doesn’t teach that ‘nothing is real’.
Buddhism does teach that because phenomena are composites, the satisfaction they bring is temporary.
But so what?
Can you permanently inhale? Can you permanently exhale? No. Each only lasts for a few seconds. Yet, here we are.
What I am hearing here is a search for something meaningful in life. That’s a pretty universal search.
Some people find it through Buddhist practice, but that’s not even really the purpose of Buddhist practice.

The purpose of Buddhist practice is to know yourself, know your own mind, so that you can be free even though all phenomena are temporary. Free means contentment. You find contentment by working with your own mind, which is unceasing. Your mind is always with you. It’s not like external pursuits. It’s not like a pizza that’s really yummy and then too bad because it’s all gone.

Shantideva wrote:
"All those who are unhappy in the world are so as a result of their desire for their own happiness. All those who are happy in the world are so as a result of their desire for the happiness of others."

It means that if you want to find some sort of meaningful purpose in life, get involved with helping others and don’t fixated on your own “wanting to be happy” thing.

There’s another old saying: “when going in doesn’t work, go out. And when going out doesn’t work, go in”.

It means when wallowing in your own head doesn’t make you happy, stop doing that, and go do stuff to help other people. And when losing yourself among others becomes overwhelming and you don’t know who you are, then stop doing that and spend some quiet time by yourself with some introspection.

You have to balance the two. It’s just like breathing in and out, in and out.
Meditation is good practice for that.
That’s why it’s called meditation practice.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
SilenceMonkey
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:54 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Ardha wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:28 am
I’ve done that since I first learned about the illusion stuff in Buddhism but it didn’t help. Everything was tainted by “not being real” or an illusion. Made it hard to find joy in anything if it’s not real.

I’ve also tried forgetting Buddhism since it didn’t help me and only hurt me but I can’t move past that it’s the truth and ignoring it is admitting defeat or choosing to suffer and be wrong.
You need a teacher, dude. There are a number of teachers you can connect with online, some you can even receive personal guidance from.

If you're not up for learning online, you might want to consider moving near a teacher who can help you. It sounds like your life may fall apart if you don't.
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:15 am Sorry, but it doesn’t sound as though anything has been given up at all. Still holding onto everything.
More like having one’s shoes on the wrong feet. They are on, but somehow it’s not right.

Buddhism doesn’t teach that ‘nothing is real’.
Buddhism does teach that because phenomena are composites, the satisfaction they bring is temporary.
But so what?
Can you permanently inhale? Can you permanently exhale? No. Each only lasts for a few seconds. Yet, here we are.
What I am hearing here is a search for something meaningful in life. That’s a pretty universal search.
Some people find it through Buddhist practice, but that’s not even really the purpose of Buddhist practice.

The purpose of Buddhist practice is to know yourself, know your own mind, so that you can be free even though all phenomena are temporary. Free means contentment. You find contentment by working with your own mind, which is unceasing. Your mind is always with you. It’s not like external pursuits. It’s not like a pizza that’s really yummy and then too bad because it’s all gone.

Shantideva wrote:
"All those who are unhappy in the world are so as a result of their desire for their own happiness. All those who are happy in the world are so as a result of their desire for the happiness of others."

It means that if you want to find some sort of meaningful purpose in life, get involved with helping others and don’t fixated on your own “wanting to be happy” thing.

There’s another old saying: “when going in doesn’t work, go out. And when going out doesn’t work, go in”.

It means when wallowing in your own head doesn’t make you happy, stop doing that, and go do stuff to help other people. And when losing yourself among others becomes overwhelming and you don’t know who you are, then stop doing that and spend some quiet time by yourself with some introspection.

You have to balance the two. It’s just like breathing in and out, in and out.
Meditation is good practice for that.
That’s why it’s called meditation practice.
I understand that on some level. Most of the time I am content to just do nothing. I sometimes go on walks to nowhere. Just idle along paths and looking around at everything around me with no destination (but remembering how to get back of course). Or just sitting down and watching the world go by.

But I don’t get Buddhism and books didn’t help and teachers just confused me (the few I met). I don’t get what it’s saying or what it means.

But in my head it made it sound like I shouldn’t bother with anything that isn’t enlightenment. I know the good stuff doesn’t last but is it wrong to try to figure out a career that you can live off of but also somewhat enjoy? Or to fall in love (not really seeking a relationship but be open to it)? Or to practice a hobby or skill you wish to do better in?
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9439
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Ardha wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:37 am But in my head it made it sound like I shouldn’t bother with anything that isn’t enlightenment. I know the good stuff doesn’t last but is it wrong to try to figure out a career that you can live off of but also somewhat enjoy? Or to fall in love (not really seeking a relationship but be open to it)? Or to practice a hobby or skill you wish to do better in?
Ultimately, that’s true. Everything thats basically an indulgence in samsara is a waste of time. But then again, it isn’t.
I understand what you are saying. I have also faced that.

The thing is, you have to look at everything else, careers, relationships, and so on, and ask what it is you expect to get out of them. You have to look at what criteria you are using. None of them will really help you at the moment of death, for example. So, in that regard, yeah, going off and being a yogi in a cave or being a monk makes the most sense, which is why there are people who do that. It’s called the renunciation of samsara. That’s the monastic path.

But there is another angle to this as well. You can see that it’s all like a floating illusion and not only enjoy the passing parade, but fully engage in it and use it as your path. It’s like someone who is a master at making beautiful clay pots: their skill and talent is all inside them. But the only way to realize it is by turning a ball of thick mud, by getting their hands dirty making something as stupid and utilitarian and fragile as a bowl.
This is the path of laypeople: you apply the teachings to every-day life. If you look at Japan for example, or Tibet, two very different cultures, yet in both of them, Buddhism is very much woven into the fabric of like and of society. Since samsara is what we are in, samsara is actually the path.

You have to look at what are your expectations of samsara. You can enjoy pizza a lot, without expecting too much from it. If you think you can eat an extra large pizza and then forever after that you will never be hungry again, then of course eating that pizza is pointless. It won’t work to satisfy that criteria. Likewise, you might really like pizza but still not want to only eat pizza three times a day for the rest of your life. If your expectation of pizza or of a career or of a romantic relationship is that it’s going to liberate you from samsara, that’s probably not going to happen. But at the same time, all these things are path.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
muni
Posts: 5559
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by muni »

I mean, thinking is what we are. We are always doing it even at the unconscious level. Though I don’t think that nightmares are what you say. They aren’t thought. I can’t say what they are but thoughts they are not.
Hello,

You are right, most people think, the thinking is what we are. But if that were so, there must be many "we's", uncountable, because thoughts change all the time, they are fleeting through mind. And no doer of the thinking stream is ever found by scientist or it must be very good in hiding itself.

However thoughts play-move in mind.

This as simple look inside only. But meditation can help, Ardha, may you get guiding support in a way that you trust and be freed from these nightmares.

I do not know how there can be appearances/images without the thinking. I am going to contemplate about.

:namaste:
muni
Posts: 5559
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by muni »

I do not know how there can be appearances/images "without the thinking". I am going to contemplate about.
I should have written "without consciousness". While thoughts can make things "very real". That is to see in contemplation.
anagarika
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by anagarika »

I´d say the reason why Buddhism, or even the Buddha himself, don´t say much about gender is very simple - it is irrelevant for liberation. I believe there are some sections in Abhidharma that deal with gender, but for practical goals of release from suffering, it is absolutely unnecessary or even contraproductive. The dharma is not only for humans, but also for lower and higher devas (who don´t even have gender), basically for every being in the universe so thinking in terms of gender is pretty anthropocentric and narrow-minded. Buddhist cosmology posits infinite number of world systems and it is fair to assume that not all beings inhabiting them do even have gender similar to humans. The goal of buddhism is to stop constructing false identities, not getting lost in creating new ones and complicating things even more.
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Former staff member
Posts: 7064
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

:good:

:namaste:
Kim
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 am
Ardha wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:37 am But in my head it made it sound like I shouldn’t bother with anything that isn’t enlightenment. I know the good stuff doesn’t last but is it wrong to try to figure out a career that you can live off of but also somewhat enjoy? Or to fall in love (not really seeking a relationship but be open to it)? Or to practice a hobby or skill you wish to do better in?
Ultimately, that’s true. Everything thats basically an indulgence in samsara is a waste of time. But then again, it isn’t.
I understand what you are saying. I have also faced that.

The thing is, you have to look at everything else, careers, relationships, and so on, and ask what it is you expect to get out of them. You have to look at what criteria you are using. None of them will really help you at the moment of death, for example. So, in that regard, yeah, going off and being a yogi in a cave or being a monk makes the most sense, which is why there are people who do that. It’s called the renunciation of samsara. That’s the monastic path.

But there is another angle to this as well. You can see that it’s all like a floating illusion and not only enjoy the passing parade, but fully engage in it and use it as your path. It’s like someone who is a master at making beautiful clay pots: their skill and talent is all inside them. But the only way to realize it is by turning a ball of thick mud, by getting their hands dirty making something as stupid and utilitarian and fragile as a bowl.
This is the path of laypeople: you apply the teachings to every-day life. If you look at Japan for example, or Tibet, two very different cultures, yet in both of them, Buddhism is very much woven into the fabric of like and of society. Since samsara is what we are in, samsara is actually the path.

You have to look at what are your expectations of samsara. You can enjoy pizza a lot, without expecting too much from it. If you think you can eat an extra large pizza and then forever after that you will never be hungry again, then of course eating that pizza is pointless. It won’t work to satisfy that criteria. Likewise, you might really like pizza but still not want to only eat pizza three times a day for the rest of your life. If your expectation of pizza or of a career or of a romantic relationship is that it’s going to liberate you from samsara, that’s probably not going to happen. But at the same time, all these things are path.
Well no I don’t do those things to expect something permanent from them. I know they are all fleeting. But Buddhism made it sound like wanting to enjoy these is wrong.

Growing up I didn’t really have friends and never really got to experience much (if anything) of life. I never really went out or traveled, and working made it hard to try anything else. I wanted stuff like a relationship or to practice such hobbies to know what it feels like. I was a sheltered guy and even today I feel like I’m largely ignorant of the world and human interaction. Physically I’m 29 but I’m still a child. I’ve isolated myself so much I don’t care about people beyond a matter of convenience. I haven’t known love or felt it, it’s just convenience (being there for the good but only having superficial ties).

I’m not that afraid of death as I know all things end. But for my life it didn’t feel like I was living so much as “existing” if that makes sense. I was just getting through the day.

I’m still not seeing how seeing it as a floating illusion can be enjoyable though.

But I’m not using those things as permanent enjoyment though, that’s not the goal.
User avatar
clyde
Posts: 742
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:17 am
Location: Walnut Creek, CA

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by clyde »

Ardha, I don’t think Buddhism is going to help you.
Ardha wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:34 am But for my life it didn’t feel like I was living so much as “existing” if that makes sense. I was just getting through the day.
It sounds to me that “existing” isn’t satisfying, that you want something more or different, that would make you feel alive. But only you know what that is.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
Locked

Return to “Discovering Mahayana Buddhism”