What does Buddhism say about gender?

If you're new to the forum or new to Buddhism, this is the best place for your questions. Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
Bristollad
Posts: 1121
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:39 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Bristollad »

A broken arm is also an illusion at the ultimate level - does that mean that having it set and a plaster cast put on so it heals, is living a lie?
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
User avatar
Ayu
Global Moderator
Posts: 13254
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Ayu »

Ardha wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:32 am My question then becomes "if gender is an illusion then is performing the steps to alleviate the process just living a lie because it isn't you"? how does one become authentic when the reality (ultimate) is that such a pursuit is living a lie? It's like saying I am attracted to men when gender is an illusion, so am I living a lie? If you know something is illusory then how do you pretend it's real? Isn't that like kids with imaginary friends?
So, first of all your perception of others is illusionary. Therfore, widening the mind as much as possible is the most honest step you can take. Then try giving up judgemental thinking. This is not easy at first, but it is worth trying.
User avatar
Ayu
Global Moderator
Posts: 13254
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Ayu »

Ayu wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:13 am
Ardha wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:32 am My question then becomes "if gender is an illusion then is performing the steps to alleviate the process just living a lie because it isn't you"? how does one become authentic when the reality (ultimate) is that such a pursuit is living a lie? It's like saying I am attracted to men when gender is an illusion, so am I living a lie? If you know something is illusory then how do you pretend it's real? Isn't that like kids with imaginary friends?
So, first of all your perception of others is illusionary. Therfore, widening the mind as much as possible is the most honest step you can take. Then try giving up judgemental thinking. This is not easy at first, but it is worth trying.
I mean: the path to understand that all phenomena are illusion starts best at analysing the own self and the own perception.
It's not very usefull to think much about the delusions of other people. It's much better to rack one's brain about the concept of own self than thinking about what other people think and where they are wrong.
User avatar
KathyLauren
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:22 pm
Location: East Coast of Canada
Contact:

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by KathyLauren »

Ardha wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:32 am My question then becomes "if gender is an illusion then is performing the steps to alleviate the process just living a lie because it isn't you"? how does one become authentic when the reality (ultimate) is that such a pursuit is living a lie? It's like saying I am attracted to men when gender is an illusion, so am I living a lie? If you know something is illusory then how do you pretend it's real? Isn't that like kids with imaginary friends?
Are you imagining that gender is somehow different in this regard than other things in life? It is not "living a lie", but it is illusory. Believing it is real is how samsara works. Until we can truly escape from samsara, we are stuck with it.

Is eating when you are hungry a "living a lie"? Both the hunger and the food are illusory. Is sleeping when you are tired a lie? Both the tiredness and the bed are illusory. Do you work? Both the task that you do and the money that you earn are illusory. It is all illusory. BFD.

We don't need to pretend that illusory objects are real. We are born believing it. That is the nature of samsara. No pretense is required.

The knowledge that it is all illusory is useful information to keep in the back of your mind, at least until enlightenment, when you will experience it all as it really is. None of us are there yet.

In the meantime, authenticity is something that occurs in the samsaric world. It happens when we become aware of lies and try to reduce them by refusing to live under their influence. It is progress.

Having a gender is not a lie. It may be illusory, but it is how the samsaric world works. Telling someone else what gender they "really" are is a lie. Pretending we are a gender other than what we really are is a lie. Escaping from those lies is an act of authenticity.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

Ayu wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:13 am
Ardha wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:32 am My question then becomes "if gender is an illusion then is performing the steps to alleviate the process just living a lie because it isn't you"? how does one become authentic when the reality (ultimate) is that such a pursuit is living a lie? It's like saying I am attracted to men when gender is an illusion, so am I living a lie? If you know something is illusory then how do you pretend it's real? Isn't that like kids with imaginary friends?
So, first of all your perception of others is illusionary. Therfore, widening the mind as much as possible is the most honest step you can take. Then try giving up judgemental thinking. This is not easy at first, but it is worth trying.
If others are illusory then they don’t suffer as I do then.
Bristollad wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:41 am A broken arm is also an illusion at the ultimate level - does that mean that having it set and a plaster cast put on so it heals, is living a lie?
Yes because it’s an illusion, it’s not real.
KathyLauren wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:45 pm [quote=Ardha post_id=575803 time=<a href="tel:1617420753" target="_blank">1617420753</a> user_id=13530]
My question then becomes "if gender is an illusion then is performing the steps to alleviate the process just living a lie because it isn't you"? how does one become authentic when the reality (ultimate) is that such a pursuit is living a lie? It's like saying I am attracted to men when gender is an illusion, so am I living a lie? If you know something is illusory then how do you pretend it's real? Isn't that like kids with imaginary friends?
Are you imagining that gender is somehow different in this regard than other things in life? It is not "living a lie", but it is illusory. Believing it is real is how samsara works. Until we can truly escape from samsara, we are stuck with it.

Is eating when you are hungry a "living a lie"? Both the hunger and the food are illusory. Is sleeping when you are tired a lie? Both the tiredness and the bed are illusory. Do you work? Both the task that you do and the money that you earn are illusory. It is all illusory. BFD.

We don't need to pretend that illusory objects are real. We are born believing it. That is the nature of samsara. No pretense is required.

The knowledge that it is all illusory is useful information to keep in the back of your mind, at least until enlightenment, when you will experience it all as it really is. None of us are there yet.

In the meantime, authenticity is something that occurs in the samsaric world. It happens when we become aware of lies and try to reduce them by refusing to live under their influence. It is progress.

Having a gender is not a lie. It may be illusory, but it is how the samsaric world works. Telling someone else what gender they "really" are is a lie. Pretending we are a gender other than what we really are is a lie. Escaping from those lies is an act of authenticity.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
[/quote]

If all that stuff is illusory then partaking in it is living a lie. You are saying we are pretending all of this is real, so we are living a lie. So then why work if it is a lie and so is money? Why love and care when that is also a lie and not real? Why do anything that we call living if it’s all just illusion and doing it is lying to yourself? What’s the point?
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17089
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Ardha wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:40 pm

If all that stuff is illusory then partaking in it is living a lie. You are saying we are pretending all of this is real, so we are living a lie. So then why work if it is a lie and so is money? Why love and care when that is also a lie and not real? Why do anything that we call living if it’s all just illusion and doing it is lying to yourself? What’s the point?
It would be really cool if you would learn something about Buddhism and stop making these lazy "counter arguments". This is not a real response to anything in this thread. No one reading these responses would take them seriously had they any experience with Buddhism at all.

If you want to criticize something effectively, you fist have to know what you are talking about.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
ddorje
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:45 pm
Location: Australia

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by ddorje »

Ardha wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:32 am
KathyLauren wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:51 pm
Ardha wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:12 amThe stack exchange says that Buddhism says it's an illusion.
Sure it is. Buddhism says that everything in the phenomenal world is an illusion. It is true, but so what? That does not mean that the phenomenal world and all the illusory things in it do not exist in their own way.
During the Tang Dynasty, the Chinese Ch’an [Zen in Japanese] master Qingyuan Weixin famously wrote: “Before I had studied Ch’an for thirty years, I saw mountains as mountains, and rivers as rivers. When I arrived at a more intimate knowledge, I came to the point where I saw that mountains are not mountains, and rivers are not rivers. But now that I have got its very substance, I am at rest. For it’s just that I see mountains once again as mountains, and rivers once again as rivers.”
https://tricycle.org/magazine/first-the ... -mountain/
So the knowledge that everything is an illusion does not invalidate any of the experiences we have in the samsaric world. We know they are illusory, but we still have to live with them and deal with them.

As I said, Buddhism has nothing much to say on the subject of gender. There is the story cited above of monks or nuns spontaneously changing gender and the Buddha having no problem with it. That is about the extent of it.

I like the take of Andrew Holecek in the Lion's Roar column. In order to approach the absolute, you first have to find authenticity in the relative world. That makes sense. You cannot realize the ultimate while living inauthentically. The transgender experience is a search for authenticity.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
My question then becomes "if gender is an illusion then is performing the steps to alleviate the process just living a lie because it isn't you"? how does one become authentic when the reality (ultimate) is that such a pursuit is living a lie? It's like saying I am attracted to men when gender is an illusion, so am I living a lie? If you know something is illusory then how do you pretend it's real? Isn't that like kids with imaginary friends?
In regards to this, I would just recommend reading texts on Gender Performativity by Judith Butler. Most of these questions or ideas above are quite straight forward.

"If you know something is illusory then how do you pretend it's real?" - That is I guess more something that could be discussed here. This seems along the lines of valid cognition.
'Maybe you collect a lot of important writings, major texts, personal instructions private notes, whatever. If you haven't practiced, books won't help you when you die. Look at the mind - that's my sincere advice' - Longchen Rabjam
User avatar
KathyLauren
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:22 pm
Location: East Coast of Canada
Contact:

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by KathyLauren »

Ardha wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:40 pm If all that stuff is illusory then partaking in it is living a lie. You are saying we are pretending all of this is real, so we are living a lie. So then why work if it is a lie and so is money? Why love and care when that is also a lie and not real? Why do anything that we call living if it’s all just illusion and doing it is lying to yourself? What’s the point?
I am not saying that we are pretending all of this is real. The Buddha said it. He called it a delusion, rather than a lie.

So you doubt the teachings of sunyata and anatman? That is fine. They are difficult to understand. But if you doubt them, then you cannot use them to refute other arguments.

You are still struggling to understand the "there is not a mountain" stage. So of course you cannot understand the "there is a mountain after all" stage. Even knowing that all phenomena around us are illusory, life still goes on.

If you choose not to work because work and money are illusory, then you will go hungry. That hunger, too, is illusory. You will starve, and that starvation is also illusory. Then you will die, and that death, too, is illusory. But you will still be dead.

Even knowing that all phenomena are illusory, the Buddha still begged for his food. He still ate and slept and bathed. There is a mountain after all.

So, getting back to gender, which is the topic of this thread, you cannot use the "it is an illusion" argument to invalidate it. Either everything is illusory but life goes on anyway, in which case gender is no less real than anything else, or you dismiss the idea of sunyata, in which case, none of it is illusory. What you cannot do is use that argument to say that gender is illusory unlike all the other stuff that is real, because that argument is false.

Which brings us back to where we started:
KathyLauren wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:52 pm Buddhism says nothing about transgender issues, other than the standard moral code applicable to all situations: be compassionate. As far as Buddhism is concerned, gender is a secular issue, no more or less illusory than any other secular issue.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
Om mani padme hum
Kathy
Bristollad
Posts: 1121
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:39 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Bristollad »

Ardha wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:40 pm If all that stuff is illusory then partaking in it is living a lie. You are saying we are pretending all of this is real, so we are living a lie. So then why work if it is a lie and so is money? Why love and care when that is also a lie and not real? Why do anything that we call living if it’s all just illusion and doing it is lying to yourself? What’s the point?
Why do you equate appearances being illusory (that is, that the way they appear to us is mistaken) with "pretending" and "living a lie"?

The way a table appears to me, as a solid, unchanging thing imbued with tableness, has nothing to do with me pretending the table appears that way, it is simply the way it appears. Knowing that this appearance is mistaken doesn't stop the table from being able to fulfil the function of supporting things. Using the table to put my coffee cup on is not "living a lie".

When you get down to it, everyone wants to be happy and tries to achieve that with short or long term goals and aims. A lot of people's pain and dissatisfaction comes from treating the appearances around them as solid, unchanging things. We do it with people too: when relationships change and someone we like drifts out of our lives, we feel cheated - they were meant to stay the same forever!

And of course, we are changing all the time too, yet we have the mistaken idea of our real, unchanging self, and that adds its own kind of dissatisfaction. Yet, none of that means we shouldn't act ethically and with kindness.

Saying that appearances are illusory - that a solid unchanging essence can't be found when searched for - does not invalidate the need to correct medical problems, or to check the traffic before crossing the road. Deciding not to get help with a problem "because it's all illusion", now that would be living a lie IMHO.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
User avatar
KathyLauren
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:22 pm
Location: East Coast of Canada
Contact:

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by KathyLauren »

:good:

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

Bristollad wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:11 pm
Ardha wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:40 pm If all that stuff is illusory then partaking in it is living a lie. You are saying we are pretending all of this is real, so we are living a lie. So then why work if it is a lie and so is money? Why love and care when that is also a lie and not real? Why do anything that we call living if it’s all just illusion and doing it is lying to yourself? What’s the point?
Why do you equate appearances being illusory (that is, that the way they appear to us is mistaken) with "pretending" and "living a lie"?

The way a table appears to me, as a solid, unchanging thing imbued with tableness, has nothing to do with me pretending the table appears that way, it is simply the way it appears. Knowing that this appearance is mistaken doesn't stop the table from being able to fulfil the function of supporting things. Using the table to put my coffee cup on is not "living a lie".

When you get down to it, everyone wants to be happy and tries to achieve that with short or long term goals and aims. A lot of people's pain and dissatisfaction comes from treating the appearances around them as solid, unchanging things. We do it with people too: when relationships change and someone we like drifts out of our lives, we feel cheated - they were meant to stay the same forever!

And of course, we are changing all the time too, yet we have the mistaken idea of our real, unchanging self, and that adds its own kind of dissatisfaction. Yet, none of that means we shouldn't act ethically and with kindness.

Saying that appearances are illusory - that a solid unchanging essence can't be found when searched for - does not invalidate the need to correct medical problems, or to check the traffic before crossing the road. Deciding not to get help with a problem "because it's all illusion", now that would be living a lie IMHO.
But if it’s all an illusion then that means it isn’t real, just like a mirage.

I know everything is always changing and nothing stays the same, but that’s not what I mean. When someone calls something an illusion it means it isn’t reality. It doesn’t exist, it’s not real, just like my dreams. They aren’t real because nothing that happens there affects me in reality. But to say it’s all an illusion is like saying it’s a hologram, it doesn’t really exist, and therefor it doesn’t matter.

I think the buddhist sense of illusion is different from what most people think on it. When I hear “it’s all an illusion” then that means one is living a lie by continuing to believe in such things. Loving someone is a lie because there is no one to love. Charity is meaningless because no one gets it. And I am not gay because I don’t love men just the appearance of men. Etc, etc. Why should I care about any of this if it’s all just an illusion?
User avatar
KathyLauren
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:22 pm
Location: East Coast of Canada
Contact:

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by KathyLauren »

Ardha wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:46 pm But if it’s all an illusion then that means it isn’t real, just like a mirage.

I know everything is always changing and nothing stays the same, but that’s not what I mean. When someone calls something an illusion it means it isn’t reality. It doesn’t exist, it’s not real, just like my dreams. They aren’t real because nothing that happens there affects me in reality. But to say it’s all an illusion is like saying it’s a hologram, it doesn’t really exist, and therefor it doesn’t matter.

I think the buddhist sense of illusion is different from what most people think on it. When I hear “it’s all an illusion” then that means one is living a lie by continuing to believe in such things. Loving someone is a lie because there is no one to love. Charity is meaningless because no one gets it. And I am not gay because I don’t love men just the appearance of men. Etc, etc. Why should I care about any of this if it’s all just an illusion?
You need to do some more reading on this subject, because you are missing the point entirely. Calling things an illusion does not mean that they do not exist. (That would be the error of nihilism.) They just don't exist in the way that we conventionally assume they exist.

Take an example of a table. Does it exist (conventionally)? Of course it does. You can place objects on it and they don't fall through it. You can sit on it. If you slam into it at high speed, it will create a bruise and it will hurt.

But what exactly makes it a table? It has a flat surface. It might or might not have a frame supporting the surface. It has legs, at least three, often four, sometimes more. So the table is not one thing. It is a group of things in a particular configuration, to which we, for convenience, assign a singular name. I could remove one leg, and it would still be a table, just a broken one. So the legs do not confer table-ness to it. You might think that the flat surface is what makes it a table. But if I had the flat top without any legs, it would not be a table, just a board. So the top doesn't make it a table either. "Table" is just a name for a particular configuration of separate objects.

In the same way, any object can be conceptually dissected and will be found to be just a convenient name for a group of other objects.

So, in this way objects do not inherently exist as objects, just as assemblages. If you whack your knee on a table leg, the fact that it hurts indicates that the table is not a lie. It just does not inherently exist as a table.

Do you see how this is different from its being a lie?

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
SilenceMonkey
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:54 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

:good:

Yeah... actually your equating the "illusory" nature of everything to "lies" is just a moralistic projection on your part. It's just your interpretation.

If I see a table and think, "Oh, that's a good table!" Does that make the table "good" ?

No, it doesn't. It's just an interpretation that the mind unconsciously projects onto the table. The mind sees the table and automatically thinks, "Oh, this is good." Is this lying?

It's not a conscious lie, that's for sure... These moralistic judgements of good and bad, right and wrong, etc... are unconscious projections. (Sometimes they're actually conscious decisions to call something good or bad, but mostly it's unconscious.) Calling something a "lie" is actually a great example of moralistic projection, because there are feelings of right and wrong behind those words.

Projections are the most obvious kinds of illusions. But they're not obvious to the person who has them. Because if that person saw their projections were just projections, they wouldn't believe the projections were true!

If we didn't believe into our projections, we actually wouldn't project to begin with. It's because we believe our projections are all true that it's not obvious to us they are merely projections in the first place.
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:48 pm :good:

Yeah... actually your equating the "illusory" nature of everything to "lies" is just a moralistic projection on your part. It's just your interpretation.

If I see a table and think, "Oh, that's a good table!" Does that make the table "good" ?

No, it doesn't. It's just an interpretation that the mind unconsciously projects onto the table. The mind sees the table and automatically thinks, "Oh, this is good." Is this lying?

It's not a conscious lie, that's for sure... These moralistic judgements of good and bad, right and wrong, etc... are unconscious projections. (Sometimes they're actually conscious decisions to call something good or bad, but mostly it's unconscious.) Calling something a "lie" is actually a great example of moralistic projection, because there are feelings of right and wrong behind those words.

Projections are the most obvious kinds of illusions. But they're not obvious to the person who has them. Because if that person saw their projections were just projections, they wouldn't believe the projections were true!

If we didn't believe into our projections, we actually wouldn't project to begin with. It's because we believe our projections are all true that it's not obvious to us they are merely projections in the first place.
That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

I don’t think truth and lies are moralizing. I think they are accurate depictions of reality. A deeply closeted man is lying to himself by trying to be straight, a mother who pretends her dead child still exists is lying to themselves. In a sense it’s an action, something we do. So when one lives a lie it means they are choosing to reject what is true. It’s right and wrong but not in a moral way, that’s why it’s not moralizing to use truth and lie. It’s not an unconscious projection.

To respond before I know that it does mean that things are still just made of many other things and have no inherent essence to them. But that still to me negates everything else because I’m not caring about others just aggregates. If nothing ultimately dies then there is no reason to mourn or fret. Technically nothing was ever alive because what isn’t born can’t die. I’m not seeing how this leads to good things or love and empathy. It sounds like the scientific argument for utter apathy.
SilenceMonkey
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:54 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Ardha wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:16 pm So when one lives a lie it means they are choosing to reject what is true. It’s right and wrong but not in a moral way, that’s why it’s not moralizing to use truth and lie. It’s not an unconscious projection.
Well... we don't consciously choose not to recognize reality. We don't go down the street and say, "I think I'll lie to myself today." It doesn't even register to people that there is a true reality beyond their mental fabrications and projections, ie. beyond the lens of their own egos.

Also, there is no right or wrong where reality is concerned. A house is a house. It's not a good house or a bad house, just a house. It's not right or wrong for being there. These kinds of value judgements are just human projections onto the wood and brick and everything that a house is made of. That's why these kinds of value judgements are seen as illusions. One person may think, "This is a nice house." Another person may think, "This house is so ugly!" Value judgements aren't inherent in the house, they are merely conceptual projections of the mind.



Ardha wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:16 pm I’m not seeing how this leads to good things or love and empathy. It sounds like the scientific argument for utter apathy.
It's not actually. Why?

Because our true nature is loving and compassionate.

Apathy is just another emotion that clouds the mind's true nature. Once the clouds of thoughts and emotions pass, the sky behind them is revealed.

This is supposed to be what happens when one experiences emptiness. Emptiness isn't a nothingness. It is merely an absense of the entire edifice of ego and the obscurations of our minds. It's very commonly misinterpretted, but with some proper training people can come to understand how liberating it really is to experience this.
Last edited by SilenceMonkey on Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
narhwal90
Global Moderator
Posts: 3509
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by narhwal90 »

Ardha wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:16 pm
To respond before I know that it does mean that things are still just made of many other things and have no inherent essence to them. But that still to me negates everything else because I’m not caring about others just aggregates. If nothing ultimately dies then there is no reason to mourn or fret. Technically nothing was ever alive because what isn’t born can’t die. I’m not seeing how this leads to good things or love and empathy. It sounds like the scientific argument for utter apathy.
No inherent existence is not the same as non-existence. Nothing is negated; the proposition is that phenomena exist provisionally and that they are empty. Others exist and consist of aggregates, as do you. That doesn't mean emotions, relationships don't exist- but that they don't exist in the way they seem to. It also profoundly includes all beings in relation to each other- there is no isolation. Consequently, all relationships arise and subside- the good, the bad and the ugly. Problems arise when one tries to compel the good ones to continue, the bad ones to stop and the ugly ones to change- grasping, aversion, ignorance are displayed.

What to do when your loved one gets the diagnosis of incurable cancer and 3 months to live? Fear, uncertainly, insecurity, depression, foreboding all arise in turn and perhaps the best you can do is go through the situation with them to the end and be supportive- and then mourn for the time it takes to mourn. The practice helps one to sit with these emotions, recognize them as transient, and be of service instead of falling into tantrums, anger, selfishness, martyrdom and so on.

The value of the practice is not as a philosophical system- there is no ultimate thought that will put the universe into a final perspective. The value is to help free oneself from the endless gyrations, illusions and compulsions of one's own mind.
Ardha
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:48 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Ardha »

That sounds more like in pretending to feel those feelings when in the back of my mind it’s just and illusion what is happening before me. It sounds like I’m faking it like I do now. When people die I don’t feel sad I just pretend to feel that way for the comfort of others. The same with anything else, because this illusion part comes up.

How can it be an illusion but you’re still invested in it? You say try a teacher but there are none where I live and reading books on the matter got me into this problem to begin with (plus they gave me mixed messages depending on author but they didn’t help me).

If it’s all an illusion how can I say I’m happy about something when I know it’s not ultimately real. Why set goals or things I want to do if nothing I feel is ultimately real. I get impermanence but to me it sounds like there is no point in wanting or striving to achieve things you want to do if the end result won’t last. That was also the tone to got from some Buddhist books. Don’t bother practicing a hobby, working on your career, etc, because the joy and anything else doesn’t last. It made it sound like anything besides striving for enlightenment was wrong.
SilenceMonkey
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:54 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Buddhism isn't about faking. If you don't feel happy, pretending to be happy won't do anyone any good. Whatever you feel, you feel. Awareness of our current state is a good practice. No need to cover up our current state by pretending to be something else.

In the end, all feelings are impermanent. You won't be happy forever. We can find relatively long lasting happiness... but it's never forever. The same is also true of depression and all other states of being.

Hobbies and careers are totally fine, and for most people they're necessary to maintain some semblance of stability in life. Without things like this, most of us will fall apart!

There are online meditation programs like Fully Being (Tsoknyi Rinpoche) or Joy of Living (Mingyur Rinpoche) which could really help. Both of these teachers are great for people who live in a modern world, and who want to get in touch with themselves and find some authentic experience of happiness in this life.

It's very possible to find authentic happiness. You just have to be willing to want it enough to find it.
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9438
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Ardha wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:23 pmIf it’s all an illusion how can I say I’m happy about something when I know it’s not ultimately real.
Obviously, because many things probably already do make you happy.
...and they aren’t “real”.

:jumping:

The happiness is still “real”.
Have you ever had a really nice dream, and then when you woke up you still felt happy from it?
That occurs even though what happens in a dream isn’t “real”.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
User avatar
Budai
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:12 pm
Location: ༀ ∞ Nam Myoho Renge Kyo ∞ ༀ

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Budai »

You have to understand the difference between an illusion and something that is temporary, as well as venerate your wonderful Buddha-Nature that you have always had and will always have until it blooms like a Lotus Flower into Enlightenment.
Locked

Return to “Discovering Mahayana Buddhism”