What does Buddhism say about gender?

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Ardha wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:34 am
Well no I don’t do those things to expect something permanent from them. I know they are all fleeting. But Buddhism made it sound like wanting to enjoy these is wrong.
Okay, so, you don’t expect things to bring you permanent happiness,
And you aren’t satisfied with things just bringing you temporary enjoyment,
And you’ve misinterpreted the Buddhist teachings to suggest something that they don’t really teach.
Well, that’s a tough one then.
I guess you’re stuck!
:shrug:
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
anagarika
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Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by anagarika »

Ardha wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:34 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 am
Ardha wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:37 am But in my head it made it sound like I shouldn’t bother with anything that isn’t enlightenment. I know the good stuff doesn’t last but is it wrong to try to figure out a career that you can live off of but also somewhat enjoy? Or to fall in love (not really seeking a relationship but be open to it)? Or to practice a hobby or skill you wish to do better in?
Ultimately, that’s true. Everything thats basically an indulgence in samsara is a waste of time. But then again, it isn’t.
I understand what you are saying. I have also faced that.

The thing is, you have to look at everything else, careers, relationships, and so on, and ask what it is you expect to get out of them. You have to look at what criteria you are using. None of them will really help you at the moment of death, for example. So, in that regard, yeah, going off and being a yogi in a cave or being a monk makes the most sense, which is why there are people who do that. It’s called the renunciation of samsara. That’s the monastic path.

But there is another angle to this as well. You can see that it’s all like a floating illusion and not only enjoy the passing parade, but fully engage in it and use it as your path. It’s like someone who is a master at making beautiful clay pots: their skill and talent is all inside them. But the only way to realize it is by turning a ball of thick mud, by getting their hands dirty making something as stupid and utilitarian and fragile as a bowl.
This is the path of laypeople: you apply the teachings to every-day life. If you look at Japan for example, or Tibet, two very different cultures, yet in both of them, Buddhism is very much woven into the fabric of like and of society. Since samsara is what we are in, samsara is actually the path.

You have to look at what are your expectations of samsara. You can enjoy pizza a lot, without expecting too much from it. If you think you can eat an extra large pizza and then forever after that you will never be hungry again, then of course eating that pizza is pointless. It won’t work to satisfy that criteria. Likewise, you might really like pizza but still not want to only eat pizza three times a day for the rest of your life. If your expectation of pizza or of a career or of a romantic relationship is that it’s going to liberate you from samsara, that’s probably not going to happen. But at the same time, all these things are path.
Well no I don’t do those things to expect something permanent from them. I know they are all fleeting. But Buddhism made it sound like wanting to enjoy these is wrong.

Growing up I didn’t really have friends and never really got to experience much (if anything) of life. I never really went out or traveled, and working made it hard to try anything else. I wanted stuff like a relationship or to practice such hobbies to know what it feels like. I was a sheltered guy and even today I feel like I’m largely ignorant of the world and human interaction. Physically I’m 29 but I’m still a child. I’ve isolated myself so much I don’t care about people beyond a matter of convenience. I haven’t known love or felt it, it’s just convenience (being there for the good but only having superficial ties).

I’m not that afraid of death as I know all things end. But for my life it didn’t feel like I was living so much as “existing” if that makes sense. I was just getting through the day.

I’m still not seeing how seeing it as a floating illusion can be enjoyable though.

But I’m not using those things as permanent enjoyment though, that’s not the goal.
It seems to me that you lack what I call "genuine disgust with samsara". My personal experience is that the only way out of this is getting those things you crave for and see their unsatisfactoriness for yourself. Before I was able to do that, I also thought that Buddhism didn´t sound too enjoyable. I knew intelectually it was ultimately the only way, but I wasn´t able to fully enjoy my self doing that. I was still very young though, much younger than you are. It was only when I got so much entangled in the sensual sphere with all its pleasures and pains that I finally started to actively seek and genuinly enjoy sense restraint and renunciation. In fact, it wasn´t even restraint - sensual experiences just droped off by themselves as a heavy and unnecessary burden. It didn´t feel like restraining anything. In contrast to my young age, I started to enjoy being withdrawn and secluded from the senses. This might be a slightly unorthodox piece of advice, but sometimes going against your reason and intuition in the short-term can bring you closer to your goal long-term....
SilenceMonkey
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Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

How about seeing your own negative emotions and thoughts as not real?

If you don’t do that, you’ll be miserable forever.
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

anagarika wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:07 pm
Ardha wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:34 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 am
Ultimately, that’s true. Everything thats basically an indulgence in samsara is a waste of time. But then again, it isn’t.
I understand what you are saying. I have also faced that.

The thing is, you have to look at everything else, careers, relationships, and so on, and ask what it is you expect to get out of them. You have to look at what criteria you are using. None of them will really help you at the moment of death, for example. So, in that regard, yeah, going off and being a yogi in a cave or being a monk makes the most sense, which is why there are people who do that. It’s called the renunciation of samsara. That’s the monastic path.

But there is another angle to this as well. You can see that it’s all like a floating illusion and not only enjoy the passing parade, but fully engage in it and use it as your path. It’s like someone who is a master at making beautiful clay pots: their skill and talent is all inside them. But the only way to realize it is by turning a ball of thick mud, by getting their hands dirty making something as stupid and utilitarian and fragile as a bowl.
This is the path of laypeople: you apply the teachings to every-day life. If you look at Japan for example, or Tibet, two very different cultures, yet in both of them, Buddhism is very much woven into the fabric of like and of society. Since samsara is what we are in, samsara is actually the path.

You have to look at what are your expectations of samsara. You can enjoy pizza a lot, without expecting too much from it. If you think you can eat an extra large pizza and then forever after that you will never be hungry again, then of course eating that pizza is pointless. It won’t work to satisfy that criteria. Likewise, you might really like pizza but still not want to only eat pizza three times a day for the rest of your life. If your expectation of pizza or of a career or of a romantic relationship is that it’s going to liberate you from samsara, that’s probably not going to happen. But at the same time, all these things are path.
Well no I don’t do those things to expect something permanent from them. I know they are all fleeting. But Buddhism made it sound like wanting to enjoy these is wrong.

Growing up I didn’t really have friends and never really got to experience much (if anything) of life. I never really went out or traveled, and working made it hard to try anything else. I wanted stuff like a relationship or to practice such hobbies to know what it feels like. I was a sheltered guy and even today I feel like I’m largely ignorant of the world and human interaction. Physically I’m 29 but I’m still a child. I’ve isolated myself so much I don’t care about people beyond a matter of convenience. I haven’t known love or felt it, it’s just convenience (being there for the good but only having superficial ties).

I’m not that afraid of death as I know all things end. But for my life it didn’t feel like I was living so much as “existing” if that makes sense. I was just getting through the day.

I’m still not seeing how seeing it as a floating illusion can be enjoyable though.

But I’m not using those things as permanent enjoyment though, that’s not the goal.
It seems to me that you lack what I call "genuine disgust with samsara". My personal experience is that the only way out of this is getting those things you crave for and see their unsatisfactoriness for yourself. Before I was able to do that, I also thought that Buddhism didn´t sound too enjoyable. I knew intelectually it was ultimately the only way, but I wasn´t able to fully enjoy my self doing that. I was still very young though, much younger than you are. It was only when I got so much entangled in the sensual sphere with all its pleasures and pains that I finally started to actively seek and genuinly enjoy sense restraint and renunciation. In fact, it wasn´t even restraint - sensual experiences just droped off by themselves as a heavy and unnecessary burden. It didn´t feel like restraining anything. In contrast to my young age, I started to enjoy being withdrawn and secluded from the senses. This might be a slightly unorthodox piece of advice, but sometimes going against your reason and intuition in the short-term can bring you closer to your goal long-term....
I thought disgust with it was the wrong way to go because it’s an aversion to life which isn’t the way? Also I don’t think you understand what is going on here.
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:44 am [quote=Ardha post_id=578322 time=<a href="tel:1618878883" target="_blank">1618878883</a> user_id=13530]

Well no I don’t do those things to expect something permanent from them. I know they are all fleeting. But Buddhism made it sound like wanting to enjoy these is wrong.
Okay, so, you don’t expect things to bring you permanent happiness,
And you aren’t satisfied with things just bringing you temporary enjoyment,
And you’ve misinterpreted the Buddhist teachings to suggest something that they don’t really teach.
Well, that’s a tough one then.
I guess you’re stuck!
:shrug:
[/quote]

I didn’t misinterpreted the Buddhist teachings, I’m telling you what I was told from other Buddhist sources. It’s like you didn’t read what I wrote. I said I want to enjoy those things because I never had the chance to do anything like that for my whole life. I don’t understand friends or love or compassion because I never really interacted with other people or cared for a human that wasn’t me.

I didn’t say I wasn’t satisfied with temporary enjoyment only the some sources say that enjoying that is wrong. Also I don’t know the joy of many things in this life. I have so little life experience that I don’t get a lot of the things people talk about.

How can I get compassion without ever feeling it? Or love? Or friendship? It reminds me of that monk I met that said I had too little life experience to understand what is being taught.
clyde wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:58 am Ardha, I don’t think Buddhism is going to help you.
[quote=Ardha post_id=578322 time=<a href="tel:1618878883" target="_blank">1618878883</a> user_id=13530]
But for my life it didn’t feel like I was living so much as “existing” if that makes sense. I was just getting through the day.
It sounds to me that “existing” isn’t satisfying, that you want something more or different, that would make you feel alive. But only you know what that is.
[/quote]

That’s not what I meant. There is a difference between existing and living. I was told that Buddhism was about “living” (to loosely paraphrase). It’s difficult to convey the feeling between the two since it’s a matter of experience. You don’t have to do anything to feel alive or “live” but it’s a different state than simply existing.
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

anagarika wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:07 pm
Ardha wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:34 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 am
Ultimately, that’s true. Everything thats basically an indulgence in samsara is a waste of time. But then again, it isn’t.
I understand what you are saying. I have also faced that.

The thing is, you have to look at everything else, careers, relationships, and so on, and ask what it is you expect to get out of them. You have to look at what criteria you are using. None of them will really help you at the moment of death, for example. So, in that regard, yeah, going off and being a yogi in a cave or being a monk makes the most sense, which is why there are people who do that. It’s called the renunciation of samsara. That’s the monastic path.

But there is another angle to this as well. You can see that it’s all like a floating illusion and not only enjoy the passing parade, but fully engage in it and use it as your path. It’s like someone who is a master at making beautiful clay pots: their skill and talent is all inside them. But the only way to realize it is by turning a ball of thick mud, by getting their hands dirty making something as stupid and utilitarian and fragile as a bowl.
This is the path of laypeople: you apply the teachings to every-day life. If you look at Japan for example, or Tibet, two very different cultures, yet in both of them, Buddhism is very much woven into the fabric of like and of society. Since samsara is what we are in, samsara is actually the path.

You have to look at what are your expectations of samsara. You can enjoy pizza a lot, without expecting too much from it. If you think you can eat an extra large pizza and then forever after that you will never be hungry again, then of course eating that pizza is pointless. It won’t work to satisfy that criteria. Likewise, you might really like pizza but still not want to only eat pizza three times a day for the rest of your life. If your expectation of pizza or of a career or of a romantic relationship is that it’s going to liberate you from samsara, that’s probably not going to happen. But at the same time, all these things are path.
Well no I don’t do those things to expect something permanent from them. I know they are all fleeting. But Buddhism made it sound like wanting to enjoy these is wrong.

Growing up I didn’t really have friends and never really got to experience much (if anything) of life. I never really went out or traveled, and working made it hard to try anything else. I wanted stuff like a relationship or to practice such hobbies to know what it feels like. I was a sheltered guy and even today I feel like I’m largely ignorant of the world and human interaction. Physically I’m 29 but I’m still a child. I’ve isolated myself so much I don’t care about people beyond a matter of convenience. I haven’t known love or felt it, it’s just convenience (being there for the good but only having superficial ties).

I’m not that afraid of death as I know all things end. But for my life it didn’t feel like I was living so much as “existing” if that makes sense. I was just getting through the day.

I’m still not seeing how seeing it as a floating illusion can be enjoyable though.

But I’m not using those things as permanent enjoyment though, that’s not the goal.
It seems to me that you lack what I call "genuine disgust with samsara". My personal experience is that the only way out of this is getting those things you crave for and see their unsatisfactoriness for yourself. Before I was able to do that, I also thought that Buddhism didn´t sound too enjoyable. I knew intelectually it was ultimately the only way, but I wasn´t able to fully enjoy my self doing that. I was still very young though, much younger than you are. It was only when I got so much entangled in the sensual sphere with all its pleasures and pains that I finally started to actively seek and genuinly enjoy sense restraint and renunciation. In fact, it wasn´t even restraint - sensual experiences just droped off by themselves as a heavy and unnecessary burden. It didn´t feel like restraining anything. In contrast to my young age, I started to enjoy being withdrawn and secluded from the senses. This might be a slightly unorthodox piece of advice, but sometimes going against your reason and intuition in the short-term can bring you closer to your goal long-term....
I forgot to add this in to my last post but you also also be wary of suggesting things like disgust because you don’t know how people will take it.
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Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Ok, this thread no longer remotely resembles it's original subject, and is meandering all over, gonna go ahead and let it rest in peace.
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Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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