New here with question on Gay

[Johnny Dangerous]

Apologies, that was a mistype. I meant to say how can you feel compassion for yourself when you feel it for everyone except yourself.

Can you point out where someone said or implied you shouldn't feel compassion for yourself?

I don't really know how to practice and show myself compassion. In fact I mostly end up shutting myself down a lot. The word NO is used a lot and to be honest I can't remember the last time I felt happy or love.

In short, I think it probably starts with judging yourself less, in this case. If you really feel that unhappy, I think you should at least consider finding some professional help of some sort, or even an LGBT support group etc. There is no reason to go through life like that.

[MagnetSoulSP]

Apologies, that was a mistype. I meant to say how can you feel compassion for yourself when you feel it for everyone except yourself.

Can you point out where someone said or implied you shouldn't feel compassion for yourself?

I don't really know how to practice and show myself compassion. In fact I mostly end up shutting myself down a lot. The word NO is used a lot and to be honest I can't remember the last time I felt happy or love.

In short, I think it probably starts with judging yourself less, in this case. If you really feel that unhappy, I think you should at least consider finding some professional help of some sort, or even an LGBT support group etc. There is no reason to go through life like that.

No, there hasn’t been an instance in my life where someone said I shouldn’t feel that way about myself.

As for the second part it’s more like living according to what is correct. I.e: I can’t prove other people exist I can only believe, or that joy is just choosing ignorance over knowledge, etc. Things like that. I’ve joined support groups but I just felt alone in all of them. I could not relate to anyone there and in terms of a therapist the ones before were all dead ends and I can’t afford to see one right now (not that I would have the time to either).

[karmanyingpo]

This still sounds to me like I shouldn’t bother trying to make things better. I vaguely remember somewhere it being said that one shouldn’t bother with such everyday things be used they don’t bring lasting happiness.

And let’s say I do get unconditional happiness, does that mean that I won’t want to do anything else or try to strive for things in this world? Then what’s the point of going on?

And how do you have compassion for yourself when you don’t even feel it for anyone but yourself. That to turn it inward is just blankness? I’m trying to understand here but it’s not really clear.

How so? You can have conditional happiness while working for unconditional happiness. They don't have to be all or nothing one or another.

People say many different things. Not all of it will apply to you. Sometimes it will be outright wrong. Important to consult with a qualified teacher who can help you out.

If you have unconditional happiness then you will be untouchable. Whether you are living in hollywood or on the streets you will be happy. Doesn't mean you can't arrange circumstances to be beneficial to self and others but, if you can be happy regardless of what happens which can often be out of our control... Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

What do you mean about having compassion for yourself when you don't feel it for anyone but yourself? Are you saying that you only feel compassion for yourself and therefore you cannot have compassion for yourself? I do not understand

KN

Apologies, that was a mistype. I meant to say how can you feel compassion for yourself when you feel it for everyone except yourself.

You may have to learn to feel it.Have you tried metta or maitri meditation?
It is hard to truly express compassion for others if you are down on yourself

KN

[Könchok Thrinley]

You may have to learn to feel it.Have you tried metta or maitri meditation?
It is hard to truly express compassion for others if you are down on yourself

KN

Yup. Don't go into "ultimate" views without a healthy base, it will only make things go wrong. Just a little bit of self-love.

[MagnetSoulSP]

I can’t feel love for myself at all though. I know folks say that you can’t truly love others without loving yourself but that’s not my case. I can feel it for everyone but me. I have compassion for all except me. When it comes to me nothing really makes me feel love or compassion. It’s just nothingness. I’ve tried in the past but nothing takes.

[karmanyingpo]

I can’t feel love for myself at all though. I know folks say that you can’t truly love others without loving yourself but that’s not my case. I can feel it for everyone but me. I have compassion for all except me. When it comes to me nothing really makes me feel love or compassion. It’s just nothingness. I’ve tried in the past but nothing takes.

Buddhism and modern neuro science has in common the idea of neuroplasticity or in Buddhist terms the ability to change habits. It is not easy but can be done... Your inability to feel love for yourself is a habit of mind that can be retrained... (In Buddhism we might even say it is a habit that extends past your current life! perhaps more than one lifetime) It is not something fixed and solid (no such thing) but perception becomes reality... If you want this all to get better then you must open up to the possibility of change... open yourself up emotionally and mentally to the possibility of change and find the motivation to do it. Otherwise the more you see it as an impossibility the more fixed and solid it will become for you.

I don't doubt your experience but the beauty of Buddhism and where it intersects with modern science is in it's acknowledgement that people can change. Its not easy but, it can be done...

KN

[MagnetSoulSP]

I can’t feel love for myself at all though. I know folks say that you can’t truly love others without loving yourself but that’s not my case. I can feel it for everyone but me. I have compassion for all except me. When it comes to me nothing really makes me feel love or compassion. It’s just nothingness. I’ve tried in the past but nothing takes.

Buddhism and modern neuro science has in common the idea of neuroplasticity or in Buddhist terms the ability to change habits. It is not easy but can be done... Your inability to feel love for yourself is a habit of mind that can be retrained... (In Buddhism we might even say it is a habit that extends past your current life! perhaps more than one lifetime) It is not something fixed and solid (no such thing) but perception becomes reality... If you want this all to get better then you must open up to the possibility of change... open yourself up emotionally and mentally to the possibility of change and find the motivation to do it. Otherwise the more you see it as an impossibility the more fixed and solid it will become for you.

I don't doubt your experience but the beauty of Buddhism and where it intersects with modern science is in it's acknowledgement that people can change. Its not easy but, it can be done...

KN

There is a degree to which it can do that. It’s still more or less in testing. But my inability to love myself is not a habit. It’s always been like this. Makes those introduction activities odd. I’ve been open to change but it doesn’t happen. Not matter what I’ve done in the past I don’t feel anything for myself. For others no problem but not for me.

I get people can change but not always by a lot. In my experience they tend to more or less stay the same with slight changes. Radical change is either rare or brain damage

[narhwal90]

I wonder if your certainties about the situation might be holding you in the problem.

[karmanyingpo]

I can’t feel love for myself at all though. I know folks say that you can’t truly love others without loving yourself but that’s not my case. I can feel it for everyone but me. I have compassion for all except me. When it comes to me nothing really makes me feel love or compassion. It’s just nothingness. I’ve tried in the past but nothing takes.

Buddhism and modern neuro science has in common the idea of neuroplasticity or in Buddhist terms the ability to change habits. It is not easy but can be done... Your inability to feel love for yourself is a habit of mind that can be retrained... (In Buddhism we might even say it is a habit that extends past your current life! perhaps more than one lifetime) It is not something fixed and solid (no such thing) but perception becomes reality... If you want this all to get better then you must open up to the possibility of change... open yourself up emotionally and mentally to the possibility of change and find the motivation to do it. Otherwise the more you see it as an impossibility the more fixed and solid it will become for you.

I don't doubt your experience but the beauty of Buddhism and where it intersects with modern science is in it's acknowledgement that people can change. Its not easy but, it can be done...

KN

There is a degree to which it can do that. It’s still more or less in testing. But my inability to love myself is not a habit. It’s always been like this. Makes those introduction activities odd. I’ve been open to change but it doesn’t happen. Not matter what I’ve done in the past I don’t feel anything for myself. For others no problem but not for me.

I get people can change but not always by a lot. In my experience they tend to more or less stay the same with slight changes. Radical change is either rare or brain damage

"Habit" the way I use it is more encompasing than the way it is typically used. We usually just think of habits in terms of things that are plainly habits, like eating with your mouth open or bad posture. But many more things can be mental habits that we don't even think of as habits ordinarily. With more practice and deeper practice we can recognize these and change them. It may not look this way to you right now but that does not mean it will always look that way to you if you continue along the path.

Also consider that in Buddhism habits aren't limited to this lifetime. If you've always been a certain way, it could be a habit that started in a previous life. That does not mean that it cannot change.

"I get that people can change but not always by a lot" - I don't disagree but have you considered what a small % of people actually engage in deep dharma practice? In the first place Buddhism is a very small religion numerically but an even smaller number of those people are actually engaged in deep practice. A small fraction of the people we know (and in some cases none at all) have the spiritual tools/method, view, experience, interpersonal connections etc. etc. necessary to be able to change radically. So yes it is rare but consider why it is rare

KN

[MagnetSoulSP]

This is getting off topic.

To bring it back to the post of self compassion or love, which is something I heard mentioned about when it comes to being gay as something that helped people, I still repeat my previous post about how I have tried taking that advice in the past but nothing ever came of it. None of the exercises or procedures recommended to me helped in any way to make me feel compassion or self love. Plus I thought Buddhism said there was no self so how can you have self compassion and love?

[Ayu]

This is getting off topic.

To bring it back to the post of self compassion or love, which is something I heard mentioned about when it comes to being gay as something that helped people, I still repeat my previous post about how I have tried taking that advice in the past but nothing ever came of it. None of the exercises or procedures recommended to me helped in any way to make me feel compassion or self love. Plus I thought Buddhism said there was no self so how can you have self compassion and love?

Maybe the ressources of buddhist advice get exhausted then. Buddhism is not the same as psychotherapy.
Lack of compassion for oneself is an issue you could ask a doctor about. It's compareable to a broken leg: you won't ask in a buddhist forum how to fix a broken leg.

If all those trials to help you don't fit to you, maybe you need some help from some other experts.

[boda]

This is getting off topic.

To bring it back to the post of self compassion or love, which is something I heard mentioned about when it comes to being gay as something that helped people, I still repeat my previous post about how I have tried taking that advice in the past but nothing ever came of it. None of the exercises or procedures recommended to me helped in any way to make me feel compassion or self love. Plus I thought Buddhism said there was no self so how can you have self compassion and love?

No fixed or permanent self, and indeed if there were no change would be possible.

[karmanyingpo]

This is getting off topic.

To bring it back to the post of self compassion or love, which is something I heard mentioned about when it comes to being gay as something that helped people, I still repeat my previous post about how I have tried taking that advice in the past but nothing ever came of it. None of the exercises or procedures recommended to me helped in any way to make me feel compassion or self love. Plus I thought Buddhism said there was no self so how can you have self compassion and love?

No fixed or permanent self, and indeed if there were no change would be possible.

Yes, we must distinguish between relative reality and ultimate reality. Both are important.
Anyway clearly there is some collection of aggregates or skandhas with shared causes and conditions and causes and effects that are producing a stream of other causes and effects in the universe... Buddhism is not nihilism it does not suggest that everything is totally fake and non-existent. Misunderstandings of emptiness can lead one in that direction but it is subtle...
Otherwise what would even be the point of meditation and spiritual practice and working toward realization??

I hope I do not sound rude or mean but I do think... that it is amiss to say we are getting off topic. Maybe these are not answers that you like or that you feel you are seeking.. but these points are very crucial to addressing your questions from a Buddhist perspective. This is reminding me of the ghost/spirit thread inso far as these aspects of view and practice are very much inter twined with your questions...

KN

[Johnny Dangerous]

This is getting off topic.

To bring it back to the post of self compassion or love, which is something I heard mentioned about when it comes to being gay as something that helped people, I still repeat my previous post about how I have tried taking that advice in the past but nothing ever came of it. None of the exercises or procedures recommended to me helped in any way to make me feel compassion or self love. Plus I thought Buddhism said there was no self so how can you have self compassion and love?

These kinds of questions are really sophomoric, almost like a"gotcha"...but the trouble is that you don't really know enough to "gotcha" yet.

You should probably seek therapy above Buddhism if Buddhism is not helping, as Ayu says. If you can't find, afford a therapist etc, and want self-help, I might suggest checking out Get Out of Your Mind Get Into Your Life, which is a book on Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. It will not involve the same kind of philosophical difficulty that Buddhism seems to have for you, and is full of practical ways to deal with some of the problems you mentioned here, including some "secular" ways of practicing compassion towards your thoughts and emotions.

At this point I'm wondering what you hope to get from this thread. People have given you a variety of suggestions and you have repeatedly simply said they wouldn't work, that Buddhist ideas don't make sense to you, etc. That's all fine, I'm just wondering if we haven't exhausted the possibilities of what people can do for you here, or if we maybe need to narrow down what it is you are looking for.

[Ayu]

Locked, because everything has been said except the off topic discussion about no self.