More personalities than bodies?
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More personalities than bodies?
As Im discovering Buddhism, one problem appeared upon me. New people are being born all the time, and so are Tanhas with them.
Now, all those personalities would need another body after death. However, we have older ones too which had not reached Buddhahood yet.
So whats the deal with this? Population on Earth is exploding and Im sure not everyone has to be born into an animal. Where do all those personalities go? Do they have to wait a long, long time for their turn or something?
Now, all those personalities would need another body after death. However, we have older ones too which had not reached Buddhahood yet.
So whats the deal with this? Population on Earth is exploding and Im sure not everyone has to be born into an animal. Where do all those personalities go? Do they have to wait a long, long time for their turn or something?
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Re: More personalities than bodies?
There are not older or younger sentient beings in Buddhism, mindstreams have been going through the cycle of birth and death since beginningless time, and continue cycle in samsara until Buddhahood. There are myriad other realms to be born into, most of which we don't interact with. Additionally, the number of insects and other animals still massively and unequivocally dwarves the number of human beings.SleepingTurtle wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:56 pm As Im discovering Buddhism, one problem appeared upon me. New people are being born all the time, and so are Tanhas with them.
Now, all those personalities would need another body after death. However, we have older ones too which had not reached Buddhahood yet.
So whats the deal with this? Population on Earth is exploding and Im sure not everyone has to be born into an animal. Where do all those personalities go? Do they have to wait a long, long time for their turn or something?
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
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Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
- PadmaVonSamba
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Re: More personalities than bodies?
Keep in mind, there is no ‘self’ that takes rebirth.
In a sense, you could say that tanas, or cravings, you could say, “coalesce” as the samsaric illusion of “sentient beings”.
In a sense, you could say that tanas, or cravings, you could say, “coalesce” as the samsaric illusion of “sentient beings”.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: More personalities than bodies?
Yeah, I keep this in mind all the time! That's why I used term "personalities". Im still very confused about this problem tho.PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:36 pm Keep in mind, there is no ‘self’ that takes rebirth.
In a sense, you could say that tanas, or cravings, you could say, “coalesce” as the samsaric illusion of “sentient beings”.
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Re: More personalities than bodies?
Can you explain what you think the problem is a little more? It's not really clear to me from your original post.SleepingTurtle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:09 amYeah, I keep this in mind all the time! That's why I used term "personalities". Im still very confused about this problem tho.PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:36 pm Keep in mind, there is no ‘self’ that takes rebirth.
In a sense, you could say that tanas, or cravings, you could say, “coalesce” as the samsaric illusion of “sentient beings”.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
- PadmaVonSamba
- Posts: 9493
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am
Re: More personalities than bodies?
It’s only a problem if there is a limited number of, let’s call them here, “individual streams of consciousness” which I think is what you are considering. It’s a bit like the job market.SleepingTurtle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:09 amYeah, I keep this in mind all the time! That's why I used term "personalities". Im still very confused about this problem tho.PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:36 pm Keep in mind, there is no ‘self’ that takes rebirth.
In a sense, you could say that tanas, or cravings, you could say, “coalesce” as the samsaric illusion of “sentient beings”.
Ideally, there are 10 people and 10 jobs to fill .
But if, at any moment, there are more people than jobs, someone must go without a job, meaning here that a consciousness is waiting around in some sort of limbo/waiting room until an egg is fertilized somewhere in the universe, or whatever happens under a microscope). It probably only waits for a split second, but does that matter? It might.
Likewise, if there are beings copulating but no new “consciousnesses” are available to connect with that embryonic goo, it’s like when there’s people who want to hire, but there’s also a labor shortage. Lots of cell division going on, but nobody’s there.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Re: More personalities than bodies?
It’s worth remembering that the ‘individual stream of consciousness’ may not be associated at the time, either of conception, or at the time of purnabhava, with the human form.
Last edited by YesheD. on Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More personalities than bodies?
Yes, this is exactly what I meant on! So, what I am wondering specifically here is, what happens when there is more "individual streams of consciousness" than bodies available? Not every single stream will deserve/karmically need to be born as insect? What are those streams that require human body to advance do when there is body shortage?PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:52 amIt’s only a problem if there is a limited number of, let’s call them here, “individual streams of consciousness” which I think is what you are considering. It’s a bit like the job market.SleepingTurtle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:09 amYeah, I keep this in mind all the time! That's why I used term "personalities". Im still very confused about this problem tho.PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:36 pm Keep in mind, there is no ‘self’ that takes rebirth.
In a sense, you could say that tanas, or cravings, you could say, “coalesce” as the samsaric illusion of “sentient beings”.
Ideally, there are 10 people and 10 jobs to fill .
But if, at any moment, there are more people than jobs, someone must go without a job, meaning here that a consciousness is waiting around in some sort of limbo/waiting room until an egg is fertilized somewhere in the universe, or whatever happens under a microscope). It probably only waits for a split second, but does that matter? It might.
Likewise, if there are beings copulating but no new “consciousnesses” are available to connect with that embryonic goo, it’s like when there’s people who want to hire, but there’s also a labor shortage. Lots of cell division going on, but nobody’s there.
Re: More personalities than bodies?
I cannot imagine the number of bodies was restricted. Everything (karma, oportunity, time place, person) must act together like one organism. Bodies and streams of consciousness are dependently arising in the Pratītyasamutpāda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratītyasamutpāda).SleepingTurtle wrote:What are those streams that require human body to advance do when there is body shortage?
As mother I always had the impression that there was a ,mind' eager to be born - and then pregnancy happened. In my case this was my perception. Once a child left after 12 weeks of pregnancy. Seemed to me they decided to go. And I'm somehow sure (I guess) they incarnated at a better place.
Re: More personalities than bodies?
There's no waiting room where people sit after they die if that's what your asking.SleepingTurtle wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:56 pm So whats the deal with this? Population on Earth is exploding and Im sure not everyone has to be born into an animal. Where do all those personalities go? Do they have to wait a long, long time for their turn or something?
There are innumerable world-systems where sentient beings live. And according to the Buddha our planet is not the only place in our world system that has human life.
What world system we are born into, what planet, what country, what realm (i.e. deva, human, animal, etc.), and so on, is dependent on our karma.
In essence, the situation you're describing isn't possible.
Last edited by Varis on Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I have never encountered a person who committed bad deeds." ― Ven. Jìngkōng
Re: More personalities than bodies?
On the contrary, I have understood that there is some kind of "waiting room" in the beyond, and that you are guided to your next incarnation when a suitable one has been found. Time passes in a vastly different manner in different realms (according to the Sutras), this means that a longish waiting time doesn't constitute an obstacle, because it isn't necessarily long at all.Varis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:54 amThere's no waiting room where people sit after they die if that's what your asking.SleepingTurtle wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:56 pm So whats the deal with this? Population on Earth is exploding and Im sure not everyone has to be born into an animal. Where do all those personalities go? Do they have to wait a long, long time for their turn or something?
See the literature that describes the experiences of the people who have remembered something from the period before their next rebirth.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)