Experiences with spirits

[spiritsu]

Hello,

This will be my first post on this forum. Part of what I want to say is to ask if other people have had any experiences with spirits. I call it a spirit because one definition I have seen is that a ghost is something that you might see but a spirit is invisible to most people most of the time (see The difference between a ghost and a spirit). Part of my reason for asking is that I would be surprised if more people that were following / practising Buddhism didn't come across some experiences with them, or at least that it might be more common amongst people that do meditation of some kind. Of course I could be wrong and maybe I have come across something rather unusual!

So what I have experienced is that over the years of living in the house that I am in now, I sometimes hear some strange noises, but also feel it in my energy / chi / whatever you want to call it. I don't necessarily think it is from doing spiritual practise as i am not really doing much meditation at the moment. I have done some in the past however, so I guess any changes in my energy / chi channels or in the mind could still be there. I have lived here over 10 years now (don't want to say anything more precise that would be personally identifying). However I believe now that it has been going on for most of the years I have been here - just had doubts about how real it is up until more recently.

I would be interested to hear if others have experienced anything with spirits, and how you found it. Would also welcome private messages from anyone who wants to communicate on the subject.

I have also been on some other forums on the internet, and looked at other websites, and looked at a few books to try to learn more about the subject, although currently finding it hard to concentrate. I have also communicated with a couple of people who I thought might have an interest / knowledge of the subject of spirits.

I have never seen anything with my eyes, just the things I mentioned. I am fairly spooked out by it, but I am guessing maybe I should be prepared to see something at some point in case it happens.

I have come across the idea of hungry ghosts in Buddhism. During my research so far I have also come across all sorts of other types of spirit. I could go into more detail about this.


Regards

[Fortyeightvows]

Welcome to dharmawheel!

[spiritsu]

Welcome to dharmawheel!

Thank you.

[Thundering Cloud]

To avoid any debates over paranormal phenomena, for sake of discussion, I assume below that it is more conventionally accurate to say "ghosts exist" than to say "ghosts do not exist".

The classical description of Hungry Ghosts I am familiar with characterizes beings with large stomachs and small mouths, thus never able to satisfy their hunger. Personally, this description strikes me as allegorical in nature but otherwise quite on the mark. Even in popular films such as Steven Spielberg's Poltergeist, ghosts are depicted as beings who are "stuck" in an unhappy existence because they are yearning for things they cannot have (e.g., "Earthly pleasures", worldly attachments to home and family, etc). In many respects, their yearning almost entirely defines who and what they have become…

"Hungry", then, seems a good general descriptor for the state of existence of ghosts.

[tkp67]

To avoid any debates over paranormal phenomena, for sake of discussion, I assume below that it is more conventionally accurate to say "ghosts exist" than to say "ghosts do not exist".

The classical description of Hungry Ghosts I am familiar with characterizes beings with large stomachs and small mouths, thus never able to satisfy their hunger. Personally, this description strikes me as allegorical in nature but otherwise quite on the mark. Even in popular films such as Steven Spielberg's Poltergeist, ghosts are depicted as beings who are "stuck" in an unhappy existence because they are yearning for things they cannot have (e.g., "Earthly pleasures", worldly attachments to home and family, etc). In many respects, their yearning almost entirely defines who and what they have become…

"Hungry", then, seems a good general descriptor for the state of existence of ghosts.

There are two aspects to this. The realm of our own minds that exist without outside influence and outside influence on the realms of our own minds. In some traditions the later extends to insentient objects. This latter dynamic is observable and not beyond ordinary perception but requires a capacity to observe causation.

[Ayu]

I wanted to provide a link to a scientific research institute in Freiburg, Germany...

http://www.igpp.de/allg/welcome_EN.htm

... and found some other sources as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Bender

An important result of his studies is the principle of Gleichförmigkeit des Okkulten (similarity or omnipresence of the Occult). He assumed that the omnipresence of such phenomena and experiences in different eras, cultures, regions and strata of society renders them worthwhile studying.[1]

13 University-Sancioned Paranormal Research Projects
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/544 ... h-projects

[spiritsu]

"Hungry", then, seems a good general descriptor for the state of existence of ghosts.

Yes, I wonder if this thing in 'my' house might have a sense of wanting. I think from what I can tell Buddhism would consider these kinds of spirit beings to be a lower form of existence. I guess, assuming it is not a 'deva' or something else. Not sure why it would be in my home though if it was higher! LOL, it's not that great!

I started off thinking about the Buddhist idea of hungry ghosts but as I started reading more about this I think more of other types of spirits.

Having said that (about being a lower 'being') it could have a certain amount of 'power' and energy. What I have been thinking is that it seems quite a 'spirited' spirit! I am being a bit jokey about it to myself even, because that is how I deal with it at the moment. I think it is quite active.
I suppose I can't prove it, that this thing really exists but I experience it in a number of ways. Some of what I notice is quite subtle, and sometimes over the years I think I have been in denial, and doubting it. Part of the reason is that I think it could be my neighbours, and it is easy to think that a particular sound might be just the neighbour or other things.
However, something happened a few days ago that was really stark, and probably one of the clearest experiences I have had with it. I was in the kitchen doing some things. Then I heard a knocking sound from the wall with one of the neighbours. This has happened quite often. Then I realised that this time it sounded closer than the wall, and actually nearer to my back door. It might seem strange but this is how I deal with it, so I said out aloud to it (or in it's direction) - 'hello'. Then I heard this knocking again. So I went through this a number of times - can't remember how many times exactly. So I say things like 'who's there?', and then 'knock knock, who's there' (like with the knock knock jokes). Each time it responded by knocking again! Wow, this thing is really strange. I don't see anything there, but it sounded like it was near the back door and near floor level. This is very subjective but it sounds quite excited/excitable - it's only a feeling / emotion i get but that is how it seems to me. I think maybe this is what it does when it has more energy.
The only time anything like this has happened (this strongly) was several years ago when a different neighbour lived there, and I had walked downstairs, through the lounge, and towards the kitchen and all of a sudden when I was about a metre away from the kitchen I heard a loud knocking from UNDER the floor! The floors are concrete and as far as I know there is no cellar or basement in mine or the neighbours. I think modern houses like this one were not built with cellars/basements. The only thing I know might be there is a gas pipe - I have no gas appliances on that side of the room but think there might possibly be a connection point on that side of the kitchen in case anyone wanted something there. I was not scared by the sound. It just sounded very clear and stark. My first reaction was to think maybe it was a sound actually in the neighbours kitchen and it was coming through, but then when I took a second take I decided no it was really right in front of me! I was kind of a bit freaked out by how weird it was, but obviously there could have been other explanations but I just don't know what. I think it probably was some kind of spirit though.
Some of the things I experience are really crazy. Some people would think I was a bit mad/crazy if I explained all of it.

[Ayu]

In Freiburg, Germany there is a governmental agency where people who perceived unexplainable phenomena can ask for advice. The agency explored many cases.

In the documentary about this institute the chief said as conclusion: there is hardly anything that can't be possible physically. It is even physically possible that a book jumps out of the shelve. It is not likely but possible. These phenomena occure when there are unconscious unsolved issues within the family or the individual who lives in that house. (Quoted only by memory.)

I say mental projections are involved. They manifest as real movements and as visual appearances you can even take a photo of.

I was very interested in watching that documentary because in that time in my flat things were falling every day. Things that ought to stand still moved a bit and fell. We were joking there was a ghost - but after a heavy object fell from a shelve directly on my bed, on my pillow, we stopped laughing.

I had to ponder only shortly what unconscious item was depressing me and my family. Like this the issue rose into our consciousness again. I meditated about it, we talked about it, which was reliefing and inconvenient though. After this mental workout our flat was calm again. No things strangely fell anymore.

[Mantrik]

There are several classes of Spirits in Vajrayana, many of them also appearing in associated cultures in their Shamanism.
The number of classifications and the descriptions vary, but there is no doubt that there is interaction constantly. Some, like Nagas and Dharmapalas, have special rituals and practices associated with them.
If you Google they are easy to find. Here is one source:
https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?tit ... and_demons

Even if not seen, some consider it wise to make offerings to the spirits, for example local guardians.

[tkp67]

I say mental projections are involved. They manifest as real movements and as visual appearances you can even take a photo of.

I believe this underlines a very important aspect of buddhism. That is, the mind as the source for everything. Like the realms, what is projected from the mind is very, very real and can effect the senses powerfully.

One of the things is I understand the dynamics of things but don't necessarily sense them. I have spent a good portion of my life observing people of different beliefs and capacities "interpret and project" based on inputs I cannot directly perceive but they can. It taught me not to be so skeptical or deny what people experience in regards to what I myself cannot perceive. I do believe it has served me well to have an open mind without blind acceptance but rather faith that the human experience would reveal that aspect of the human condition be it internal to my being or through observation in another.

[spiritsu]

I was very interested in watching that documentary because in that time in my flat things were falling every day. Things that ought to stand still moved a bit and fell. We were joking there was a ghost - but after a heavy object fell from a shelve directly on my bed, on my pillow, we stopped laughing.

That is quite interesting. I have no sense of objects being moved around but obviously there is the idea that there can be poltergeists that can throw objects. However maybe what I am experiencing with various sounds - knocks/rattles/scrapes in the walls or ceilings or even under the floor could be considered a mild form of 'poltergeist' activity.

[spiritsu]

There are several classes of Spirits in Vajrayana, many of them also appearing in associated cultures in their Shamanism.

Even if not seen, some consider it wise to make offerings to the spirits, for example local guardians.

I had not come across this classification of spirits in Vajrayana. I have been doing some reading (or trying to in between feeling very distracted by this thing). I started off looking up hungry ghosts in Buddhism generally. Then I have been reading a small book on Shintoism which talks about protector spirits that can be connected with family spirits, and then the house spirits can be a collection for a town and then even a whole nation where the head deity is the first emperor of Japan so there is a kind of hierarchy. I have no reason to believe that the spirit here is any kind of god or demon - maybe not that powerful. It does seem very adapt at stealing my (chi) energy though so think it is quite powerful in that way. At the moment I have not found a proper way to protect my energy, despite looking up the subject of psychic protection and ideas like imagining a protective wall/bubble around the body. One thought I had though was that in a way maybe it could end up being a bit like materialism if you try to hold on to the energy - the energy was not mine to begin with and I guess will eventually lose it in the end, but then it is not the spirit's energy either.

The other types of spirits I came across are also like protector spirits and it seems there have been all sorts of cultures worldwide that have been aware of them, which I was amazed to learn. It also seems like organised religion has either (mostly) forgotten the existence of them or even covered up the facts, or just failed to have the knowledge of them in the first place. I don't know whether this was deliberate act on the part of those in control of the various belief systems or not, but various folk beliefs/folklore included them.
There is a Wikipedia article listing the various names in different places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_deity
So in Scotland they were known as brownies or broonies, and hob in English folklore and the ancient Romans had lares, and cofgodas for the Anglo-Saxons.

Then there are people who believe they have seen fairies and/or gnomes.

I still think it could be the spirit of a dog that might have lived in the house, which is what I remember thinking soon after moving in and noticing some strange things, or even a human. On another discussion forum I went on I asked a bit about my situation and have been told by someone she feels there was a man who was the original owner of the house and he was murdered and has been living off my energy for some time (it has certainly been a fair number of years) and wants my help to 'cross over'. Not sure whether to believe that though. It sounds quite dramatic.

[Ayu]

I was very interested in watching that documentary because in that time in my flat things were falling every day. Things that ought to stand still moved a bit and fell. We were joking there was a ghost - but after a heavy object fell from a shelve directly on my bed, on my pillow, we stopped laughing.

That is quite interesting. I have no sense of objects being moved around but obviously there is the idea that there can be poltergeists that can throw objects. However maybe what I am experiencing with various sounds - knocks/rattles/scrapes in the walls or ceilings or even under the floor could be considered a mild form of 'poltergeist' activity.

IMO it comes from oneself. There was an unsolved vibration in my flat that time and it came directly from my own unspoken grief and pain. No Poltergeist.

[Simon E.]

As I write there is a spirit visible to me on the other side of the room. It’s in a glass fronted cabinet in a bottle. On the side of the bottle are the mystic words “Jura” and “ Aged 10 Years”.

[spiritsu]

I was very interested in watching that documentary because in that time in my flat things were falling every day. Things that ought to stand still moved a bit and fell. We were joking there was a ghost - but after a heavy object fell from a shelve directly on my bed, on my pillow, we stopped laughing.

That is quite interesting. I have no sense of objects being moved around but obviously there is the idea that there can be poltergeists that can throw objects. However maybe what I am experiencing with various sounds - knocks/rattles/scrapes in the walls or ceilings or even under the floor could be considered a mild form of 'poltergeist' activity.

IMO it comes from oneself. There was an unsolved vibration in my flat that time and it came directly from my own unspoken grief and pain. No Poltergeist.

Okay, you can have your own view on your own situation (and I have no reason to disagree, or agree for that matter) but in my case I have no sense that it is coming from myself! As I say, from what i have read and learnt, it is possible for spirits to exist. I also have a sense that there is something in my house, and possibly follows me around but also moves separately from my own movements. I do think 'it' connects in with me to a degree as well, at least with my body (energy body/chi channels/chakras) in stealing energy, but would not dismiss the possibility that it could connect with my mind as well.

[Mantrik]

As I write there is a spirit visible to me on the other side of the room. It’s in a glass fronted cabinet in a bottle. On the side of the bottle are the mystic words “Jura” and “ Aged 10 Years”.

Exorcise it, quick!!

[Simon E.]

Doin’ me best...

[Mantrik]

There are several classes of Spirits in Vajrayana, many of them also appearing in associated cultures in their Shamanism.

Even if not seen, some consider it wise to make offerings to the spirits, for example local guardians.

I had not come across this classification of spirits in Vajrayana. I have been doing some reading (or trying to in between feeling very distracted by this thing). I started off looking up hungry ghosts in Buddhism generally. Then I have been reading a small book on Shintoism which talks about protector spirits that can be connected with family spirits, and then the house spirits can be a collection for a town and then even a whole nation where the head deity is the first emperor of Japan so there is a kind of hierarchy. I have no reason to believe that the spirit here is any kind of god or demon - maybe not that powerful. It does seem very adapt at stealing my (chi) energy though so think it is quite powerful in that way. At the moment I have not found a proper way to protect my energy, despite looking up the subject of psychic protection and ideas like imagining a protective wall/bubble around the body. One thought I had though was that in a way maybe it could end up being a bit like materialism if you try to hold on to the energy - the energy was not mine to begin with and I guess will eventually lose it in the end, but then it is not the spirit's energy either.

The other types of spirits I came across are also like protector spirits and it seems there have been all sorts of cultures worldwide that have been aware of them, which I was amazed to learn. It also seems like organised religion has either (mostly) forgotten the existence of them or even covered up the facts, or just failed to have the knowledge of them in the first place. I don't know whether this was deliberate act on the part of those in control of the various belief systems or not, but various folk beliefs/folklore included them.
There is a Wikipedia article listing the various names in different places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_deity
So in Scotland they were known as brownies or broonies, and hob in English folklore and the ancient Romans had lares, and cofgodas for the Anglo-Saxons.

Then there are people who believe they have seen fairies and/or gnomes.

I still think it could be the spirit of a dog that might have lived in the house, which is what I remember thinking soon after moving in and noticing some strange things, or even a human. On another discussion forum I went on I asked a bit about my situation and have been told by someone she feels there was a man who was the original owner of the house and he was murdered and has been living off my energy for some time (it has certainly been a fair number of years) and wants my help to 'cross over'. Not sure whether to believe that though. It sounds quite dramatic.

A Lama with the right training may agree to help. I witnessed a Gelugpa Geshe helping a harmful spirit to leave a house. It did not return.

[spiritsu]

A Lama with the right training may agree to help. I witnessed a Gelugpa Geshe helping a harmful spirit to leave a house. It did not return.

Aah thanks. That's something to consider if I ever come into contact with such a Lama.

The person on this other forum who told me about her thoughts that it was a man murdered also offered to help. I am guessing for a charge, which obviously makes me suspicious. On the other hand if someone really has that ability (and to do it from a distance) then it probably wouldn't be unreasonable for them to charge, even if it was a voluntary payment. It might take them time and energy, plus they might think they are putting themselves at some risk in case of negative/evil spirits affecting them. I think this person was probably more like a psychic from a more western tradition but I am not sure.

When I mentioned it to a Zen person over the internet he pointed out a book where there is a cover illustration depicting a zen monk saving a ghost. Picture shows a monk/teacher with a spirit. 'Soto Zen in medieval Japan’ by William Bodiford (I think this must be the one). It didn't sound like this zen person I communicated with had any actual experience with spirits but he was obviously aware of stories involving them. The advice from him initially was a very simple case of treating them with kindness - as within, so without, so treating something external the same as if it was inside.

I also mentioned some of this to someone who has an interest in Shamanism and he gave a suggestion of doing a ritual with a candle with some basic instructions. I tried doing this but left out the part asking the spirit to leave, and just read the part asking it to stop stealing my energy. I have no idea if the spirit can hear or understand. I just thought asking it to leave would be unlikely to work when it has been here for many years - it is probably very much embedded in the house and is either trapped or feels trapped, or very much attached. I have also read an idea that if it is drawing energy / given energy then that might then that might help keep it alive/trapped in this world (or the house) as well.

[Ayu]

I do not oppose that spirits can be outside realities, but I argue what is real.
In my observation nothing is there outside without my own involvement. The outside world mirrors inside phenomena. It's just an additional help to consider this genuinely.