Experiences with spirits

[Mantrik]

I do not oppose that spirits can be outside realities, but I argue what is real.
In my observation nothing is there outside without my own involvement. The outside world mirrors inside phenomena. It's just an additional help to consider this genuinely.

Energies do attach themselves to people and places and where the connection begins and ends is anyone's guess. However, after a poltergeist had been causing all sorts of mayhem (hurling razor blades at a toddler was the last straw) the family became desperate. Their reality was pretty clear at that point. A Geshe friend offered to help and used a ritual by Tsongkhapa. I can't give the details but it ended with me taking offerings for the spirit to follow to a remote crossroads. It did not return. The Geshe mentioned that chanting the Heart Sutra can also be useful in less serious cases, reminding the spirit that they need to leave and move on.
There was a great deal of detail in the ritual so I assume the tantric colleges train in such rituals.

[Vasana]

Burning sang, insense or essential oils can be an easy way of purifying and cleansing the space, potentially even pacifying any energetic or physical disturbances other beings may be causing. It's also good for us too. Of course if you have a more serious case on your hands then you need the help of a Lama or someone genuinely experienced in that area. Don't hesitate in asking the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas in the mean time though.

[Ayu]

Yes, I think asking the Buddhas and reciting the refuge mantra is a very good measure.

[spiritsu]

I do not oppose that spirits can be outside realities, but I argue what is real.
In my observation nothing is there outside without my own involvement. The outside world mirrors inside phenomena. It's just an additional help to consider this genuinely.

I can't judge what you experienced yourself in your situation as you probably understand better your own situation. You can say I should consider it could something inside myself, however I could also say that I would suggest you consider that there could at least have been a third party involvement in your situation. Most people would not consider it 'normal' for objects to fall off shelves by themselves (obviously depending on their beliefs) unless they were poorly balanced, and most people don't have the ability to move objects just with their minds, unless that is something you can do in normal everyday situations.
Personally I have no reason to think that the 'outside' world 'mirrors' the 'inside' world. (Ultimately) There is no outside or inside but they are very much connected (no complete separation or complete connectedness, same but different, however you want to say it).

[spiritsu]

I don't know the Buddhas or know how to contact them - I have no private communication channels open with them! However I have tried a bit of chanting.
This one for example, and a few others. https://buddhaweekly.com/cognitive-rese ... -twisters/
I knew about this one already from doing a little bit of chanting in the past with a meditation group (FWBO-linked, now called Triratna). The link above is one I just came across this morning on Facebook - the wonders of social media!
I have done the chanting just to try to make the energy in the house a bit more positive and in case it helps the spirit. I have no idea if it works though.

[Ayu]

I do not oppose that spirits can be outside realities, but I argue what is real.
In my observation nothing is there outside without my own involvement. The outside world mirrors inside phenomena. It's just an additional help to consider this genuinely.

I can't judge what you experienced yourself in your situation as you probably understand better your own situation. You can say I should consider it could something inside myself, however I could also say that I would suggest you consider that there could at least have been a third party involvement in your situation. Most people would not consider it 'normal' for objects to fall off shelves by themselves (obviously depending on their beliefs) unless they were poorly balanced, and most people don't have the ability to move objects just with their minds, unless that is something you can do in normal everyday situations.
Personally I have no reason to think that the 'outside' world 'mirrors' the 'inside' world. (Ultimately) There is no outside or inside but they are very much connected (no complete separation or complete connectedness, same but different, however you want to say it).

No problem. It was just a suggestion that I found helpful.

[spiritsu]

I do not oppose that spirits can be outside realities, but I argue what is real.
In my observation nothing is there outside without my own involvement. The outside world mirrors inside phenomena. It's just an additional help to consider this genuinely.

I can't judge what you experienced yourself in your situation as you probably understand better your own situation. You can say I should consider it could something inside myself, however I could also say that I would suggest you consider that there could at least have been a third party involvement in your situation. Most people would not consider it 'normal' for objects to fall off shelves by themselves (obviously depending on their beliefs) unless they were poorly balanced, and most people don't have the ability to move objects just with their minds, unless that is something you can do in normal everyday situations.
Personally I have no reason to think that the 'outside' world 'mirrors' the 'inside' world. (Ultimately) There is no outside or inside but they are very much connected (no complete separation or complete connectedness, same but different, however you want to say it).

No problem. It was just a suggestion that I found helpful.

That's okay. It is interesting. Have you considered the involvement of some spirit in your own situation though? I guess you might have but maybe don't believe that is the cause after considering it.

I think I would not expect anyone to believe in spirits just because I have said that is what I have experienced. In the past I have just thought that, like with UFOs, I would believe it but maybe only if I see something. In this case I don't actually see anything but experience it in other ways - we have more than one of the senses. Anyone reading this could easily think I was crazy or just delusional if they hadn't experienced anything like it. I would suggest to anyone reading and think it to reconsider, and consider the possibility that maybe the world is quite a strange place and that there is more to life than the material world.

The idea of there being more than one of the senses that we can rely on reminds me of an episode in the Kung Fu series (with David Carradine) where he tries to teach a blind preacher to rely on his other senses. I know that is only fiction but a good story I think.

From what I have read, it is possible for some people to see using their third eye. I am not sure that I want to see anything though as I find it spooky enough already! I should probably be prepared in case I see something though. I am noticing this thing more and more though, and it often seems very close. I mean it, it is already connecting in with my body, and other things.

[spiritsu]

I am saying that I would find it spooky to actually see spirits but I have read about it before especially in the case of hungry ghosts, and also heard from one of the meditation teachers that he knew someone who had seen one - not sure what kind of spirit it was really though.
Then there are people like on this other forum I went on where there is a woman who believes she can see spirit beings/entities and even gnomes. Of course I don't know whether to believe that. I am however starting to consider all sorts due to the experience I am having. It has an effect on one!

Does anyone know of any research done on chi energy? I mean like trying to confirm its existence, and anything about how it works?

[Ayu]

Well, due to Buddhist studies and experiences in my life my view on some items are a bit different.
In short, I do not believe in senses you can rely on. If you analyse what is perception you'll realize how amazingly unstable everything is. Ask a modern physician. Ask a Lama.

So, I doubt my perception always. Do I perceive things as they are? Most likely not at all. And because things are not very real to me, the question whether spirits are real does not arise. They might be as real as everything else.

One thing I'd like to add is that Lamas who are able to remove those spirits are not exorcists in first place. They are Buddhist teachers and very busy with teaching Buddhism.

[spiritsu]

Well, due to Buddhist studies and experiences in my life my view on some items are a bit different.
In short, I do not believe in senses you can rely on. If you analyse what is perception you'll realize how amazingly unstable everything is. Ask a modern physician. Ask a Lama.

So, I doubt my perception always. Do I perceive things as they are? Most likely not at all. And because things are not very real to me, the question whether spirits are real does not arise. They might be as real as everything else.

One thing I'd like to add is that Lamas who are able to remove those spirits are not exorcists in first place. They are Buddhist teachers and very busy with teaching Buddhism.

A physician? If you mean like a doctor then I find them completely useless, unless you think that taking doses of artificial drug chemicals is a good idea. A doctor is the last kind of person I would trust! I do think the human body can have amazing abilities like healing from all sorts of things. Maybe it could even move objects if you learn how to figure that out and train the mind. I would however find it hard to believe anyone moving objects without conscious knowledge especially if that person hasn't even learnt to do it consciously - that would be like a double leap of faith to me.

I am vaguely aware of quantum physic though and how that says things like you can't measure the speed and the location of an object at the same time, or that communication between entangled objects/particles can happen instantaneously which would mean possibly being able to transfer very big amounts of data very quickly and over large distances. What I don't understand yet is how the particles become entangled and how (if possible) they would subsequently become 'untangled'. Could I be entangled with the spirit in my house by now as it has been a long time? Could it mean that there could be a kind of telepathy between a mother and baby/child (I think, possibly). What about twins, and how (from what I have read) they can both experience the same emotions/thoughts at the same time in a kind of telepathy. It would be possible to come up with all sorts of these strange questions. Maybe you were quantum entangled with these objects that moved when that happened?

There is also something I think Rupert Sheldrake has brought up in one of his videos on Youtube where dogs can sense when their owners are coming back home but not even turned the corner at the end of the street yet or something like that. It was recorded on video I think that they can start getting active and moving about as if to expect their arrival. A few times now I have felt that I have heard a small knock on the door a bit before the neighbours either side of me have returned home, and I was thinking it could have been the spirit. Of course I could be imagining it, and there is a question of perception there as it is difficult for me to separate the noises I hear from the possibility that it could be one of the neighbours. In both cases I thought the neighbour was out at the time. So one time this happened (a couple of weeks ago) I was sitting upstairs like now in front of my computer and I heard a 'knock' that seemed to feint to be a proper knock from a person but definitely heard something and to me sounded like it was coming from the front door, not outside the house somewhere or from the neighbour's door. It happened once and I thought effectively 'here we go again, that was the spirit again'. I didn't want to go to the door as it seems spooky to me. It happened again though. And then the third time it happened I just decided to go downstairs to take a look. No one was there as expected but when I looked out the window I saw the neighbour in his car, and it looked like he had just returned from somewhere.

[Mantrik]

One thing I'd like to add is that Lamas who are able to remove those spirits are not exorcists in first place. They are Buddhist teachers and very busy with teaching Buddhism.

Monastics have a wide variety of roles, and Ngakpas are certainly quite broad in their skills. Teaching is just one role.
'Liberating' spirits is certainly one of the tasks they may perform.
What leads you to think they would not have such a role?

[spiritsu]

So, I doubt my perception always. Do I perceive things as they are? Most likely not at all. And because things are not very real to me, the question

I have been doubting and questioning myself all the time as well, because I know that I could make mistakes and some of the noises I hear could actually be something to do with the neighbour. However, things keep happening, and I have had to conclude that there really is something here. I have not come to this conclusion lightly, and it has taken me literally years to figure it out. I think probably far too long, but that is from doubting myself and perceptions and dismissing for so long as possibly being the neighbour(s).

When I realised (in September last year) that I was hearing things on one side where I knew for certain that the house was empty for about a week, then I became more certain. So I have been having a bit of a strange time since then, and it has been hard to concentrate on anything much. I have been reading all sorts to try and learn about the subject, but sometimes I am finding it's hard to concentrate.

i now wonder how much this might have affected me over the years from this thing sucking my energy - it's bit of a sucker! Or from being affected by having a sense that there is something there, maybe a feeling that something is trying to distract my attention.

I do seem to remember all those years ago the neighbour asking if I had heard strange sounds, and I thought I had but just said no because of not having heard the particular sound she mentioned. The neighbour had a dog, and I remember feeling that there might have been a dog following me up when I went upstairs, and I thought it was perhaps on the other side of the wall (where this neighbour is). So this is not something I have just come up with as I have got older and am sure I am not going senile or mad or anything like that, even if other people might come to that conclusion if I said everything. Anyway I remember being suspicious that this was going on even at times when the neighbour had gone out to walk the dog and I deliberately tried to watch out after that, and one time I went out after noticing something. it would also happen when I was sitting upstairs for a while and then going down - when I got to near the top of the stairs. So I went down and outside and there was the neighbour walking back with the dog - so they had been out. It has gone on like this (or a bit like that) since then. The neighbour saw the surprised look on my face, but when she asked I still didn't say anything because it just seems so strange and crazy to say anything. I am sensing movement around my computer desk as I am typing this by the way. I get this when I am tapping on the keys. Other times it can just feel like it is gradually sucking my energy. Anyway, I originally thought maybe this was the spirit of a dog that might have lived there, or maybe buried in the garden by the neighbour. I actually have no idea what kind of spirit it is.

[Ayu]

I"m sorry. Not physician but physicist.

[Ayu]

One thing I'd like to add is that Lamas who are able to remove those spirits are not exorcists in first place. They are Buddhist teachers and very busy with teaching Buddhism.

Monastics have a wide variety of roles, and Ngakpas are certainly quite broad in their skills. Teaching is just one role.
'Liberating' spirits is certainly one of the tasks they may perform.
What leads you to think they would not have such a role?

I just thought of my teacher. He is able to remove bad spirits - may they be internal or external. But I think, it would be a pity, if too many people came to him for getting help, if they are not at all interested in Buddhism.

[spiritsu]

I"m sorry. Not physician but physicist.

I did wonder! Makes sense.

[spiritsu]

I just thought I would post an update on this as a year has now gone by. I have not resolved the issue. I have been doing a lot of thinking and remembering things, and also reading/research to try to figure out what might be going on.

So probably of most interest to anyone on this forum would be the fact that there was a Buddhist monk who could actually see this spirit. I won't say on here the identity of this monk, but I think he would have been from the Tibetan tradition, and he was someone I saw while travelling abroad. That was about 11 years ago. He described it as a dog. However I think this does not mean it is the spirit of a deceased dog. I had read that people can have 'spirit attachments' (try looking it up on the internet) that could be from a previous life - say a pet from a previous life. Other spirits that could look like dogs are a demon or a djinn spirit. I am thinking for the moment that this could be a djinn spirit because it seems to fit in some way. Obviously none of this is certain.

The other main thing I remember is that I saw something myself. I believe I must have only been 4-5 years old, and I saw what I would have described as the face of a 'dog'. So I now believe this is a spirit that has been with me for the whole of my life. I just didn't realise what was going on.

[Ayu]

My first spontaneous thought is: Let it be. Let it go.
But this musn't be helpful.
I would try to find a very good, decent, educated and open-minded therapist.

[Budai]

Treating ghosts and spirits as if we treat our own beloved friends and human beings who have not gone through the death process yet is the best approach. If one finds a Buddhist practice towards others who need our help, with the proper caution and also equal and greater compassion as of always, then the practice of Buddhism will make one happy.

However, if one plays or chants the Shurangama Mantra and reads about it here, they can chase away malevolent ghosts and spirits, and even good Ghosts chant the Shurangama Mantra, it is quite powerful, and is a problem solving device for such situations where one may be having trouble, as well as one of the most important Mantras in Buddhism. Om.

[spiritsu]

My first spontaneous thought is: Let it be. Let it go.
But this musn't be helpful.
I would try to find a very good, decent, educated and open-minded therapist.

Letting go/relaxing does not make this spirit go away. I will have done relaxation many times during my life and so obviously that is not the answer. Nor is chanting Om Mani Padme Hum because I have done that many times (and a few other Buddhist chants) well before I realised I had this spirit around me. Obviously before I figured out this spirit was there (most of my life) I could not have been focusing on it so not being attached to it mentally can't be the answer. Trying to ignore it does not help either.
I do not believe a therapist would have any knowledge of spirits and how to deal with them.
This thing is very real. If anyone thinks that spirits are not real then they need to read the Buddhist teachings more closely, or the teachings of various other traditions, but it would be difficult to talk about those here due to the forum rules.
There is a lot more that I could say but I feel I have to tip-toe around the subject - partly due to the forum rules and partly because I have found a lot of spiritual / religious people (Buddhist & Christian but probably also others) don't want to consider ideas outside of their own narrow understanding. So it makes it very difficult to talk about it to them and especially to learn from what they might know themselves.

[tkp67]

There is no agency outside of one's self that is greater than the agency within that controls whether one abides or declines the influences of such things.