Experiences with spirits

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Pascal2
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by Pascal2 »

spiritsu wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:52 pm Hello,

This will be my first post on this forum. Part of what I want to say is to ask if other people have had any experiences with spirits. I call it a spirit because one definition I have seen is that a ghost is something that you might see but a spirit is invisible to most people most of the time (see The difference between a ghost and a spirit). Part of my reason for asking is that I would be surprised if more people that were following / practising Buddhism didn't come across some experiences with them, or at least that it might be more common amongst people that do meditation of some kind. Of course I could be wrong and maybe I have come across something rather unusual!

So what I have experienced is that over the years of living in the house that I am in now, I sometimes hear some strange noises, but also feel it in my energy / chi / whatever you want to call it. I don't necessarily think it is from doing spiritual practise as i am not really doing much meditation at the moment. I have done some in the past however, so I guess any changes in my energy / chi channels or in the mind could still be there. I have lived here over 10 years now (don't want to say anything more precise that would be personally identifying). However I believe now that it has been going on for most of the years I have been here - just had doubts about how real it is up until more recently.

I would be interested to hear if others have experienced anything with spirits, and how you found it. Would also welcome private messages from anyone who wants to communicate on the subject.

I have also been on some other forums on the internet, and looked at other websites, and looked at a few books to try to learn more about the subject, although currently finding it hard to concentrate. I have also communicated with a couple of people who I thought might have an interest / knowledge of the subject of spirits.

I have never seen anything with my eyes, just the things I mentioned. I am fairly spooked out by it, but I am guessing maybe I should be prepared to see something at some point in case it happens.

I have come across the idea of hungry ghosts in Buddhism. During my research so far I have also come across all sorts of other types of spirit. I could go into more detail about this.


Regards
:buddha1:
I am not against considering the existence of spirits and ghosts in principle, but I have never seen any definite evidence that suggests their existence in first place
karmanyingpo
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by karmanyingpo »

Pascal2 wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:18 am
spiritsu wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:52 pm Hello,

This will be my first post on this forum. Part of what I want to say is to ask if other people have had any experiences with spirits. I call it a spirit because one definition I have seen is that a ghost is something that you might see but a spirit is invisible to most people most of the time (see The difference between a ghost and a spirit). Part of my reason for asking is that I would be surprised if more people that were following / practising Buddhism didn't come across some experiences with them, or at least that it might be more common amongst people that do meditation of some kind. Of course I could be wrong and maybe I have come across something rather unusual!

So what I have experienced is that over the years of living in the house that I am in now, I sometimes hear some strange noises, but also feel it in my energy / chi / whatever you want to call it. I don't necessarily think it is from doing spiritual practise as i am not really doing much meditation at the moment. I have done some in the past however, so I guess any changes in my energy / chi channels or in the mind could still be there. I have lived here over 10 years now (don't want to say anything more precise that would be personally identifying). However I believe now that it has been going on for most of the years I have been here - just had doubts about how real it is up until more recently.

I would be interested to hear if others have experienced anything with spirits, and how you found it. Would also welcome private messages from anyone who wants to communicate on the subject.

I have also been on some other forums on the internet, and looked at other websites, and looked at a few books to try to learn more about the subject, although currently finding it hard to concentrate. I have also communicated with a couple of people who I thought might have an interest / knowledge of the subject of spirits.

I have never seen anything with my eyes, just the things I mentioned. I am fairly spooked out by it, but I am guessing maybe I should be prepared to see something at some point in case it happens.

I have come across the idea of hungry ghosts in Buddhism. During my research so far I have also come across all sorts of other types of spirit. I could go into more detail about this.


Regards
:buddha1:
I am not against considering the existence of spirits and ghosts in principle, but I have never seen any definite evidence that suggests their existence in first place
I think that is OK and I have also not directly experienced such things in my own life (although people I know have), but I think it is important to remember that this is not the case for many other people

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
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Pascal2
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by Pascal2 »

karmanyingpo wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:41 pm

I think that is OK and I have also not directly experienced such things in my own life (although people I know have), but I think it is important to remember that this is not the case for many other people

KN
For some reason, human beings tend quite often to attribute supernatural causes to phenomena that have much earthly explanations
karmanyingpo
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by karmanyingpo »

Pascal2 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:23 am
karmanyingpo wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:41 pm

I think that is OK and I have also not directly experienced such things in my own life (although people I know have), but I think it is important to remember that this is not the case for many other people

KN
For some reason, human beings tend quite often to attribute supernatural causes to phenomena that have much earthly explanations
That is true but in my opinion it is not helpful to automatically assume that when we don't even know the person or their situation and only have internet posts to judge based off of.. It can come off as dismissive and condescending

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
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Redfaery
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by Redfaery »

It is important not to jump to conclusions regarding one's experiences. However, Buddhism isn't a materialist worldview and if you treat it as if it is, you will miss a lot it has to offer.
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spiritsu
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by spiritsu »

Pascal2 wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:18 am I am not against considering the existence of spirits and ghosts in principle, but I have never seen any definite evidence that suggests their existence in first place
In a way I think you are right to take the approach of not just blindly believing what some other people say about experiencing spirits. I had always considered the possibility of some kind of spirits existing, but never saw the evidence. I guess part of the reason I considered the possibility was the sighting I had when about 4-5 years old and I remembered that. It is always good to check things out.

What I would say however is that I am 100% sure myself now that the experiences I am having are real. I actually think it took me far too long to accept it was real. For a start, I had been noticing strange things in the house, then there was the Buddhist monk who actually said he could see it, and without any kind of prompting. I thought I was just seeing him briefly for some other reason. Even after that it took me 11 years to finally realise it was definitely real and going on. So I actually think I have been very stupidly slow to catch on. I think partly what was happening was that I was trying to shut out the experience, to numb myself from the reality of it.

I think it can be seen from the Buddhist teachings that various kinds of spirits exist. I think not least in the story of the Buddha's enlightenment when he was getting close to enlightenment to stories say that he was tempted by all sorts of demons (to cause fear) and other temptations. There are other mentions of spirits/demons in the teachings, but I am not sure if a lot of (western) Buddhists are really aware of it, or accept their reality.

There was only one member of my family that I felt able to talk about my discoveries going back just over a year ago, and I think I said to him that he probably shouldn't just believe what I said - simply on the grounds that I understand the importance of checking out evidence and alternative explanations. That is however the approach that has led to me taking far too long to accept it's real. Over the Christmas period I tried to tell my parents about the experiences and their response was not so positive to say the least. My dad just laughed when I tried to tell him, so no sympathy there. My Mum's reaction was just to say this doesn't happen. It is hard to tell people who have closed minds. Neither of them remember the things I experienced when I was younger. There were a couple of things that I tried to remind them about - that I know at least my Mum used to remember until as recently a couple of years ago. Unfortunately they are getting older and I think it is now too long ago.

If we look at the accounts of all sorts of cultures throughout history, and all over the world, there have been many people who have been aware of various kinds of spirits. I think it is only in the more modern times that people have been led into a false idea of a scientific materialist view of life. People have become really spiritually ignorant.
As an example take a look at this page and the various names for household spirits in different countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_deity
Of course I don't know how many of these are real, but I don't think it can be ignored that all sorts of cultures have had various stories about spirits of some kind.
spiritsu
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by spiritsu »

Another example is here:
"And the 3rd Karmapa wrote in the Wishing Prayer for the Attainment of the Ultimate Mahamudra ,

May we receive the flawless teachings, the foundation of which are the two truths
Which are free from the extremes of eternalism and nihilism,
And through the supreme path of the two accumulations, free from the extremes of negation and affirmation,
May we obtain the fruit which is free from the extremes of either,
Dwelling in the conditioned state or in the state of only peace."
(https://www.learnreligions.com/doctrine ... ths-450002)

So it is rejecting the nihilistic point of view that nothing exists!

Two Truths - so I described this as samsara (existence/relative) and nirvana (emptiness/absolute).
On this page, the idea that only emptiness is true (no real existence) is called Mahasanghika. So there are different points of view.
narhwal90
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by narhwal90 »

The point of that last instruction is that emptiness is characteristic of the dependently originated, not that there is no existence. As far as existence or not, the instruction there is that definite statements of existence vs non-existence are both incorrect.
karmanyingpo
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by karmanyingpo »

narhwal90 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:53 pm The point of that last instruction is that emptiness is characteristic of the dependently originated, not that there is no existence. As far as existence or not, the instruction there is that definite statements of existence vs non-existence are both incorrect.
Emptiness is a subtle view. HHDL has spent much of his life devoted to practice, yet he says he still has relatively little understanding. How much more so for someone like me who so easily gets distracted.

The power of lining up ones view with things as they are should not be under estimated.. And I do not mean convincing yourself that the spirits are fake. Again, I have seen advice from a prominent TB teacher that emptiness meditation is a way to protect oneself against spirits. (But whether that applies to you and your situation, is another question, which is why, I recommend asking a teacher for advice specific to you and your circumstance) So whether the spirit is conventionally real, or no, this technique can be a helpful one but again it sounds like this is a serious situation for you so I think it best to consult with a teacher, you can try emailing someone.

Perhaps there is too much fixation in this discussion on the issue of whether or not, the spirits are conventionally "REAL" in this situation. I think we are not OP so it is hard if not impossible for most of us to tell one way or the other. But there are some things in the Buddhist method arsinal that are likely to be beneficial whether this is really caused by a spirit or not, such as emptiness meditation as taught by some teachers like Geshe Zopa.

I think, whether Buddhism believes in spirits or not is a mute point...... It is clear that Buddhism traditionally regards spirits as real (as real as you or me) as far as I am aware.

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by FiveSkandhas »

FPMT article: "Spirit Influence Is the Result of Karma from the Person’s Previous Lives"
https://fpmt.org/mandala/archives/manda ... ous-lives/
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
karmanyingpo
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by karmanyingpo »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:09 pm FPMT article: "Spirit Influence Is the Result of Karma from the Person’s Previous Lives"
https://fpmt.org/mandala/archives/manda ... ous-lives/
In a similar vain this is what I was referring to earlier https://fpmt.org/wp-content/uploads/tea ... itharm.pdf
Points 1 and 2 are probably restricted since they involve deity visualization

KN
Last edited by karmanyingpo on Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by SilenceMonkey »

spiritsu wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:57 pm What I would say however is that I am 100% sure myself now that the experiences I am having are real. I actually think it took me far too long to accept it was real. For a start, I had been noticing strange things in the house, then there was the Buddhist monk who actually said he could see it, and without any kind of prompting. I thought I was just seeing him briefly for some other reason. Even after that it took me 11 years to finally realise it was definitely real and going on. So I actually think I have been very stupidly slow to catch on. I think partly what was happening was that I was trying to shut out the experience, to numb myself from the reality of it.
Wow... 11 years is a long time. I'm sorry you had to go through this for so long...

A friend of mine had a similar problem, and he went to speak with the Nechung oracle. The lama gave him a lot of blessings, some special ingredients for a smoke offering for the spirit, as well as prescribing two pujas that he could ask a gompa to do in his name. He said the blessings were really nice, but actually one of the pujas made all the difference. The spirit was gone just like that.
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Ayu
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Re: Experiences with spirits

Post by Ayu »

Four pages of advice seem to be good enough now.
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