Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Well, it’s like, The Lakota Sioux say that the Sun is the father of all things and the Earth is the mother of all things (meaning life on the planet). In a sense, that’s absolutely true. But do you take it literally? Nobody is suggesting that they got in bed together and had sex.

I can certainly appreciate that for the person who insists that one take literally the Buddha’s past life stories, the Buddha-to-be’s encounter with the “Daughters of Mara” Because for that person, doubting these things means that one’s conviction in Fthe Buddha, Dharma and Sangha is incomplete. Not taking everything literally, “if you can’t believe all of it, what reason is there to believe any of it?”
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
wonderingaround
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Re: Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

Post by wonderingaround »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:51 pm
wonderingaround wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:26 pm That to call oneself a Buddhist, one must have faith in these things and that it is wrong to view the stories as metaphorical.
Wrong view in Buddhadharma is confined to rejecting rebirth, karma, and dependent origination. Questioning the existence of nāgās and so on does not rate as wrong view.
Thank you Malcolm. Are there any (possibly) beginner friendly resources on this I could do further readings on?
Malcolm
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Re: Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

Post by Malcolm »

wonderingaround wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:02 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:51 pm
wonderingaround wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:26 pm That to call oneself a Buddhist, one must have faith in these things and that it is wrong to view the stories as metaphorical.
Wrong view in Buddhadharma is confined to rejecting rebirth, karma, and dependent origination. Questioning the existence of nāgās and so on does not rate as wrong view.
Thank you Malcolm. Are there any (possibly) beginner friendly resources on this I could do further readings on?

There is an interesting book by Bhikku Analayo on rebirth:

https://www.amazon.com/Rebirth-Early-Bu ... 1614294461
German Buddhist monk and university professor Bhikkhu Analayo had not given much attention to the topic of rebirth before some friends asked him to explore the treatment of the issue in early Buddhist texts. This succinct volume presents his findings, approaching the topic from four directions. The first chapter examines the doctrine of rebirth as it is presented in the earliest Buddhist sources and the way it relates to core doctrinal principles. The second chapter reviews debates about rebirth throughout Buddhist history and up to modern times, noting the role of confirmation bias in evaluation of evidence. Chapter 3 reviews the merits of current research on rebirth, including near-death experience, past-life regression, and children who recall previous lives. The chapter concludes with an examination of xenoglossy, the ability to speak languages one has not learned previously, and chapter 4 examines the particular case of Dhammaruwan, a Sri Lankan boy who chants Pali texts that he does not appear to have learned in his present life. Rebirth in Early Buddhism and Current Research brings together the many strands of the debate on rebirth in one place, making it both comprehensive and compact. It is not a polemic but an interrogation of the evidence, and it leaves readers to come to their own conclusions.
wonderingaround
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Re: Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

Post by wonderingaround »

Dharmasherab wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:41 pm Just like in almost all religions, Buddhism also has its teachings on aspects that are not tangible to the senses outside of realisations. Buddhism does encourage Shraddha meaning conviction/faith/ However it does not encourage blind faith either.
As for the belief in supernatural entities like deities, one can question as to how much that impacts one's practice.
Unlike Abrahamic faiths (which the west is a lot familiar with), in Buddhism, faith is not and end to itself. For example, the belief that the Buddha was a fully enlightened belief is good to begin with. But just relying on the faith aspect on its own doesn't give the full result of enlightenment. Whatever the content of the scriptures that are meant to be taken up as articles of faith are meant to be taken up in a provisional manner. When one commits to practices, and provided that one is progressing then the realisations will take place in the mind which would override the need to rely on articles of faith where one's conviction in the Dharma in now based on direct experience.
Forcing oneself to accept things when one's heart is not in it, doesn't usually end well. So best not to force any belief on yourself.
If we look at the lives of teachers including the Buddha, it was the practice that gave birth to the teaching (and not the teaching that gave birth to the practice). So when the practices go in the right direction, the doubts may dissolve. There is no need to even expect this to happen. Patience is important because the practice is not always easy but then again nothing which is worth practising has ever been easy.
Thank you, the bolded bit is what I have already been fortunate enough to experience! Maybe I could say I have faith that that with practice things will become more clear.
master of puppets
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Re: Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

Post by master of puppets »

Does the wisdom speak with us?

ı'm sure it is. these days after questioning (on the forum) find the answers already given somewhere right before me. :shrug:
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

You can take the buddhist scripture literally,
or you can take the buddhist literature scripturally.
Either way, whichever works best for you.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
KC:
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Re: Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

Post by KC: »

I'd refer to what I think of as the Buddha's lost words ... some simple advice:
"Take what I have taught and test it by your experience."

There are a lot of Buddhist academics and scholars. (That's no diss.) But their focus is, I think, not what you're aiming at.

I can't imagine how to be Buddhist without knowledge of the dharma. Some dharma. At least the basics. For me it's kinda like physics 101. (More ontology than epistemics ... more about the nature of reality and less about intellectual concepts.)

Look into refuge vows. That might give you a sense of where our priorities are, as sangha ... hopefully.

--KC:

p.s. I dropped in just now hoping to post a question: "What do you see as basic to Buddhism? to Buddhist practice?"
Nadereme
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Re: Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

Post by Nadereme »

wonderingaround wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:09 pm Hi,
I recently encountered an online conversation whether buddhists must accept deities, the other realms etc. as fact and believe in them. I have been studying Buddhism for some time on and off and have never come across this sort of a statement. None the literature I've read (basic books by Dalai Lama, TNH, Jack Kornfield, articles on Tricycle etc.) have discussed these matters except when repeating anecdotes from Buddha's past lives to clear a point on some teaching. So everything I have encountered has taken the supernatural aspects of scripture as symbolic (eg. deities are seen as archetypes or representations of our buddha nature).
I have considered myself as a Buddhist for some time and frankly, got slightly upset that my view that I have assumed is very mainstream especially in the West is considered an insult to "real buddhists".

I would really appreciate any views on this and also how to respond if I encounter this sort of claims again.
Many thanks in advance!
Out of curiosity, do you mind telling if this was on Reddit or another Buddhist forum?
Giovanni
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Re: Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

Post by Giovanni »

The more I study Dharma and try to,practice it, the less ideas like literal, symbolic, history, legend, objective, or subjective mean anything much. They just become sounds..echoes in the mind, voices in conversation.
Reality is much more earthy, breath in…breath out. Be kind.
Kai lord
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Re: Does buddhism require taking scripture literally?

Post by Kai lord »

wonderingaround wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:09 pm Hi,
I recently encountered an online conversation whether buddhists must accept deities, the other realms etc. as fact and believe in them.
Its okay, my unique and alternative takes on deities and their realm drive most traditional Buddhists insane as well for decades. Its one of my part time interests to analyze their sumeru cosmology to such scientific, geographical, religious and historical details that it made them realize how self contradictory their supernatural beliefs can be and become uncomfortable. Very soon they avoid me.

Likewise you shouldn't have any issue with whatever they might think of you. In fact you should actively engaged them in detailed discussions!
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