mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

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Artziebetter1
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mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Artziebetter1 »

I have had ocd since I was about 9 or 10 years old and it really makes my life hard and not fun.

I have had a few occassions since then being free from OCD.
the first times were when I had 'intimacy' with my girlfriend,but only a few times.also when I go to a place with alot of trees like a park,botanical garden or nature.

and also 2 times on entheogens in amsterdam,and also using ayurvedic herbs once.where it went away 100%.I have NEVER felt so good in my life being free from this.

I also have brain fog and poor cognition.I live in a group home due to my ocd and depression because at one point it was so bad I couldn't even function,but I worked for at&t last year so I am improving and I do think I can function in society now,and a catholic charity group is working on finding me a job so I can afford organic food.

the reason I mentioned I was in a group home,is because the food here is the lowest quality food there is even for american standards and its microwaved.the water is fluoridated.my obsessions and compulsions are out of control.

I went to lisbon,portugal for a day and amsterdam,holland in september to visit family and my mental health improved so I know its also environmental.when I went to alexandria ,egypt my mental health improved too.I don't do well in concrete cities that have no life and beauty.

anyway,I was wondering if incorporating pine pollen,wheatgrass,low oxalate green leafy vegetables,fruits and organic milk can help my condition along with exercise on a rebounder and getting a infrared sauna?

I have tried every medication there is,with bad effects on me and I am looking the alternative route.what does buddhism say about food,lifestyle and mental health?

I want to eliminate gluten,lectins,corn and meat.
Meggo
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Meggo »

If you do it don't forget to get a multivitamine made for vegans (esp. bc of B12, D3 and iron) and also some creatine. Ditch the milk because it will lower your dopamine over time, which you will need for being happy and motivated (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrJXXMFJ4_Y. And then just try it out and see for yourself. No need to go raw, as some beneficial substances in plants get formed/ released by cooking. Better avoid all processed foods (oils, pasta, bread, cookies which all can be vegan to.)
Btw, one nootropic that sometimes works well for OCD is N-acetyl-cystein (NAC).
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Sādhaka
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Sādhaka »

Meggo wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:54 pmDitch the milk because it will lower your dopamine over time, which you will need for being happy and motivated (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrJXXMFJ4_Y.

I’ve heard this once from someone else before, and they mentioned that it also has to do with the thyroid somehow; but I doubt that this would be the case with raw grass-fed A2 breed milk. Likely only the case with grain fed pasteurized A1 “milk”.

Also I’d think that the Indian Yogis who recommend raw grass-fed A2 breed milk as one of the most Sattvic and healthiest foods, would have noticed if it was messing with the production of dopamine....
Malcolm
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Malcolm »

Artziebetter1 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:58 pm I have had ocd since I was about 9 or 10 years old and it really makes my life hard and not fun.
Generally OCD is considered a seizure disorder. An adjunct to controlling that is a balanced diet that includes cooked grain and vegetables, fruits, and some amount of animal protein.

A raw diet will most certainly aggravate your condition.
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Sādhaka
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Sādhaka »

Sādhaka wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:16 pm
Meggo wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:54 pmDitch the milk because it will lower your dopamine over time, which you will need for being happy and motivated (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrJXXMFJ4_Y.

I’ve heard this once from someone else before, and they mentioned that it also has to do with the thyroid somehow; but I doubt that this would be the case with raw grass-fed A2 breed milk. Likely only the case with grain fed pasteurized A1 “milk”.

Also I’d think that the Indian Yogis who recommend raw grass-fed A2 breed milk as one of the most Sattvic and healthiest foods, would have noticed if it was messing with the production of dopamine....

In fact milk is supposed to increase dopamine production, because of the amount of tyrosine it has.

Again, most likely if obtaining the good quality milk that I mentioned above; and not typical contemporary factory farmed stuff.
Last edited by Sādhaka on Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Foods don’t somehow “produce” dopamine by themselves , dopamine is a neurotransmitter connected to the reward circuit in your brain that (among other things) is released through the pleasure obtained through survival related activities like eating and sex.

Whatever scant evidence exists for milk being more or less of a dopamine producer than other foods is probably not worth pay attention to, other than the obvious fact of things that taste good leading to dopamine release.

Foods which are likely unhealthy in large quantities would likely tend to a stronger dopamine release because we are hardwired to strongly enjoy foods that would aid in survival in terms of obtaining max calories- sugary and fatty foods for instance.

So, if one is trying to equate healthy diet with more dopamine release, those things probably have little correlation other than as part of a larger, more holistic program involving exercise, good sleep, etc. to -regulate- dopamine, etc. levels.

More dopamine being released by a given does not simply mean “better for you”, and the idea that it does evinces a really basic misunderstanding of the function of dopamine.

In that sense, for mental health (at least from a western perspective of neuropsychological health type stuff) the sanest diet is simply one which is balanced, does not involve extremes of pleasure or deprivation, and is connected to a lifestyle that generally maintains some kind of balance.

Of course, that will not sell books or diet programs.

Anyway, I have severe OCD/anxiety and IMO lifestyle stuff can definitely help, laying off caffeine, balanced diet,regular hard exercise, etc.

I don’t think diet alone is gonna do much though, we have to work with our mind and learn to recognize and not stimulate rumination, constant checking, etc. it’s a long term thing to be managed, I learned to stop thinking of it as a malady and more just an extreme tendency.

As you noted, environment matters a lot, even things like walks in nature daily, and/or when triggered have helped me.

The basic strategy I was given for OCD /anxiety is like this: When symptoms are at a high level, I focus on things that calm the body/physiology, exercises, tsa lung, etc. when they are at a lower level I focus on cognitive and meditative ways of dealing with the thoughts and patterns.

Of course there is no one size fits all answer, and there is no substitute for professional help. I personally sought out people in both the worlds of Dharma and mental health treatment and I’m glad I did.

Honestly, there is a huge crossover between eating disorders and OCD, adopting some restrictive diet is just a way to perpetuate OCD, rather than to treat it IMO, dieting of that kind is a suckers game.
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chokyi lodro
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by chokyi lodro »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:00 pm
More dopamine being released by a given does not simply mean “better for you”, and the idea that it does evinces a really basic misunderstanding of the function of dopamine.
I'm really glad you mentioned that.

In terms of mood disorders "too much" dopamine or serotonin can be a very bad thing, leading to mania and potentially psychosis. So it stands to reason that more of something is not necessarily best.

With regard to managing any mental health condition, I too would echo the call to profound stability, whether it's diet, activities, sleep, relaxation or whatever. Any extreme can have damaging effects on what is in reality a subtly balanced system.

TL;DR - stay away from quack diets. :hug:
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Sādhaka
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Sādhaka »

chokyi lodro wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:19 pmIn terms of mood disorders "too much" dopamine or serotonin can be a very bad thing....

Don’t you mean releasing too much dopamine, then not letting it replenish (through dopamine-fasting (where you do literally nothing for 24 hours or more (although you might as well meditate during this time)) for example)? I don’t think you can have too much dopamine or serotonin.

Anyway, to address something JD said: I’m pretty sure that tyrosine and other things contribute to the production of dopamine. However you’re right in that a huge part of it is related to the release (or lack thereof) and replenishing (or lack thereof) of it.
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chokyi lodro
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by chokyi lodro »

Sādhaka wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:07 pm Don’t you mean releasing too much dopamine, then not letting it replenish (through dopamine-fasting (where you do literally nothing for 24 hours or more (although you might as well meditate during this time)) for example)? I don’t think you can have too much dopamine or serotonin.
No, I don't. I explicitly mean having too much dopamine or serotonin sloshing about the brain. It can lead to unregulated moods (too high, i.e. mania), loss of reality (psychosis) and other problems. Google 'serotonin syndrome' if you'd like to know more. It's a very serious thing. There are entire classes of medicine devoted to fixing this as a problem!
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Charlie123
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Charlie123 »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:23 pm
Artziebetter1 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:58 pm I have had ocd since I was about 9 or 10 years old and it really makes my life hard and not fun.
Generally OCD is considered a seizure disorder.
Hi Acarya,

OCD as a seizure disorder sounds a little strange. Can you elaborate?
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Shinjin »

Why punish yourself with a raw vegan diet? Life is too short. A balanced one with meat, veggies, fruit would be best.
Malcolm
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Malcolm »

Charlie123 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:38 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:23 pm
Artziebetter1 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:58 pm I have had ocd since I was about 9 or 10 years old and it really makes my life hard and not fun.
Generally OCD is considered a seizure disorder.
Hi Acarya,

OCD as a seizure disorder sounds a little strange. Can you elaborate?
http://www.anncaserep.com/full-text/accr-v3-id1541.php
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Sādhaka wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:07 pm
chokyi lodro wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:19 pmIn terms of mood disorders "too much" dopamine or serotonin can be a very bad thing....

Don’t you mean releasing too much dopamine, then not letting it replenish (through dopamine-fasting (where you do literally nothing for 24 hours or more (although you might as well meditate during this time)) for example)? I don’t think you can have too much dopamine or serotonin.

Anyway, to address something JD said: I’m pretty sure that tyrosine and other things contribute to the production of dopamine. However you’re right in that a huge part of it is related to the release (or lack thereof) and replenishing (or lack thereof) of it.
I take tyrosine supplements for ADHD, I switched after going off adhd meds years ago. Supplements can do some things yeah: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6084775/

To my mind trying to view food the same way with regard to dopamine is pretty silly, because of how the reward system works. Like I said, a piece of chocolate cake probably releases more dopamine overall than anything healthy.

*Dopamine is one of the primary neurotransmitters involved in the reward system and has to do with the evolutionary drive to seek pleasure* it is not just a thing you boost and bam you feel better.

Equating more dopamine with better mental health is not straightforward like that at all, as was mentioned above an excess of serotonin and dopamine is also a bad thing. Schizophrenia for instance is often associated with excess dopamine in some areas of the brain. Drug addicts and gamblers walk around getting gigantic spikes of dopamine as a result of their addictions.

So yeah, it makes you “feel good” but especially as regards mental health, that does necessarily mean feeling better at all.
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Jesse »

Even more than diet, one of the most effective ways to combat mental illness is exercise. During the spring/summer, I generally walk 3-6 times per week, an average of 3 miles a day. It takes about 45-60 minutes.

Combining this with mindfulness practice, relaxation methods is helpful. Removing a few other things is also helpful, in particular caffeine, cigarettes, and sugar. (Or just reducing them).

Also, I would list Sleep as #1. Above everything else. Getting good sleep, with a consistent schedule will do more for mental health than all that other stuff combined.
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Toenail
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Toenail »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:23 pm
Artziebetter1 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:58 pm I have had ocd since I was about 9 or 10 years old and it really makes my life hard and not fun.
Generally OCD is considered a seizure disorder. An adjunct to controlling that is a balanced diet that includes cooked grain and vegetables, fruits, and some amount of animal protein.

A raw diet will most certainly aggravate your condition.
Is this a joke? I am a therapist and studied this. I never heard this. Also your case study with one brain damaged individual is no evidence.
Malcolm
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Malcolm »

Toenail wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:42 pm Is this a joke? I am a therapist and studied this. I never heard this. Also your case study with one brain damaged individual is no evidence.
Nope, no joke. For example, in the US, OCD is often treated with an anti-seizure drug called Depakote.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181953/

I am not claiming that every case of OCD is a seizure related disorder without evidence, and there are a wide variety of behaviors associated with OCD, but it is certainly the case that seizure disorders correlate with OCD, and I suspect, in the end we will discover that most OCD is brain based.
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chokyi lodro
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by chokyi lodro »

Toenail wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:42 pm
Is this a joke? I am a therapist and studied this. I never heard this. Also your case study with one brain damaged individual is no evidence.
I too was sceptical regarding the labelling of OCD as a seizure disorder.

Granted, it is brain-based. But then if we compare epilepsy (truly a seizure disorder, caused by unregulated electrical impulses in the brain), OCD (a behavioural disorder, which reacts to internal cognition and external stimuli), and bipolar (a mood disorder, which is highly likely linked to brain chemistry), we can see they are all brain-based, but for radically different reasons. Although I hasten to add my characterisation of all three is but superficial.

The only thing that did make me wonder if there might be a link is that in some cases complications can include 'tics' like in Tourettes, which has some connection to neural circuitry.
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Malcolm
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Malcolm »

chokyi lodro wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:56 pm
Toenail wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:42 pm
Is this a joke? I am a therapist and studied this. I never heard this. Also your case study with one brain damaged individual is no evidence.
I too was sceptical regarding the labelling of OCD as a seizure disorder.
Just look at the mounting evidence. Then draw your conclusion.
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

The DSM doesn’t use brain science as diagnostic criteria, and I would argue s big of treatment - even if this is the case- would necessarily be cognitively based.

Depakote is also a pretty serious drug with considerable side effects. Not to say it isn’t important in some circumstances, but plenty of people have successfully controlled their OCD without it.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

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Malcolm
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Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?

Post by Malcolm »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:42 pm The DSM doesn’t use brain science as diagnostic criteria
Correct. And as such, it's diagnostic criteria are pretty subjective, not really evidence-based.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19181456/
Evidence based medicine claims to be the paradigm for modern psychiatry. It represents proven treatments for defined diagnoses. But there are major problems with this position, starting with the fact that while they are superior to placebo, evidence based treatments too often are ineffective. It cannot be assumed that classifying psychopathology diagnostically is the best way to move forward. Established diagnostic entities, are as much wish as reality. They are the result of committee decisions so tentative that DSM III and IV refuse to use the term "diagnoses" in the diagnostic manual.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27071528/
In the 1990s, the rise of evidence-based medicine cast doubt on the reliability of expert consensus. Since then, medicine has increasingly relied on systematic reviews, as developed by the evidence-based medicine movement, and advocated for their early incorporation in expert consensus efforts. With the partial exception of DSM-IV, such systematic evidence-based reviews have not been consistently integrated into the development of the DSMs, leaving their development out of step with the larger medical field.
Depakote is also a pretty serious drug with considerable side effects. Not to say it isn’t important in some circumstances, but plenty of people have successfully controlled their OCD without it.
Indeed, if your OCD is limited to not being able to carry magazines out of the bathroom once you have brought them in, or get in a new car with dirty underwear (true story), well, probably Depakote is probably overkill.
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