Galantamine and dream yoga

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Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Don't know if anyone has tried this, but I did and it actually works.

It increases both dream recall, and it one instance led to an immediate lucid dream.

The drawback is it that you can have a lucid dream while in it which feels kind of unclear or blurry, which is a strange experience. I found that simply working with techniques if you have a lucid dream your awareness is of such a level that even a mundane dream has a kind of "clearer" quality.

Not so with this, you can have a muddy, confusing dream and be lucid in it somewhat, but it feels like a partial lucidity.

I feel like this supplement would be best used as an enhancement once one is really stable in a sleep/dream practice.

Also, it had no discernible side effects for me.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Hazel »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 10:26 pm Don't know if anyone has tried this, but I did and it actually works.

It increases both dream recall, and it one instance led to an immediate lucid dream.

The drawback is it that you can have a lucid dream while in it which feels kind of unclear or blurry, which is a strange experience. I found that simply working with techniques if you have a lucid dream your awareness is of such a level that even a mundane dream has a kind of "clearer" quality.

Not so with this, you can have a muddy, confusing dream and be lucid in it somewhat, but it feels like a partial lucidity.

I feel like this supplement would be best used as an enhancement once one is really stable in a sleep/dream practice.

Also, it had no discernible side effects for me.
The prescription-only Alzheimer/dementia medication?

Edit: I get very different search results adding "supplement" to the search. I wonder what the difference is.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Norwegian »

Hazel wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 11:29 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 10:26 pm Don't know if anyone has tried this, but I did and it actually works.

It increases both dream recall, and it one instance led to an immediate lucid dream.

The drawback is it that you can have a lucid dream while in it which feels kind of unclear or blurry, which is a strange experience. I found that simply working with techniques if you have a lucid dream your awareness is of such a level that even a mundane dream has a kind of "clearer" quality.

Not so with this, you can have a muddy, confusing dream and be lucid in it somewhat, but it feels like a partial lucidity.

I feel like this supplement would be best used as an enhancement once one is really stable in a sleep/dream practice.

Also, it had no discernible side effects for me.
The prescription-only Alzheimer/dementia medication?

Edit: I get very different search results adding "supplement" to the search. I wonder what the difference is.
That's the one. It's not a supplement, it's a drug used for those with cognitive decline due to Alzheimer's, as you mentioned.

I don't remember everything I read about it years ago, but it can have the effect of inducing lucid dreams in healthy people, and so in this context it's considered to be an oneirogenic substance (affects or enhances dreams in one way or another). It's an allosteric modulator of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs) and, at higher doses, an acetylcholine esterase (AChE) inhibitor. Some people also combine it with some choline source like Alpha-GPC (L-Alpha glycerylphosphorylcholine) to further enhance its effects. While all of this is interesting, it's basically playing with ones brain chemistry, and one needs to know what one are doing to avoid inducing "brain fog" or other more serious symptoms.

FDA paper on it: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatf ... 023lbl.pdf
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Sādhaka »

The galantamine you can buy without a prescription, says that it’s extract of lycoris radiata and nothing more. But one brand says it’s a extract of galanthus nivalis. :shrug:
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Hazel wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 11:29 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 10:26 pm Don't know if anyone has tried this, but I did and it actually works.

It increases both dream recall, and it one instance led to an immediate lucid dream.

The drawback is it that you can have a lucid dream while in it which feels kind of unclear or blurry, which is a strange experience. I found that simply working with techniques if you have a lucid dream your awareness is of such a level that even a mundane dream has a kind of "clearer" quality.

Not so with this, you can have a muddy, confusing dream and be lucid in it somewhat, but it feels like a partial lucidity.

I feel like this supplement would be best used as an enhancement once one is really stable in a sleep/dream practice.

Also, it had no discernible side effects for me.
The prescription-only Alzheimer/dementia medication?

Edit: I get very different search results adding "supplement" to the search. I wonder what the difference is.
The main difference is dosage and concentration of the active ingredient AFAIK. They give a -way- higher dosage for alzheimer's.
When I did a bit of research on it, the most common cautionary advice was around prescription interaction and some amount of people having mild GI problems from it. I think I found some stuff on rashes too, but that seemed to be with the higher dosages used for cognitive decline.

FWIW, I think it's a pretty safe supplement, but of course the supplement industry is largely unregulated so caveat emptor. I have a naturopath I can run this stuff by and generally won't take anything I don't think is reasonably safe. There is only so much info out there about this as a supplement though.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by GrapeLover »

I’d also say similar for magnesium l-threonate (though prepare to be extremely relaxed the next day). The clarity of the dreams is crazy and you can think very clearly in them in such a way that can be helpful for lucidity
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Hazel »

I wonder if regular usage leads to becoming dependent on it to dream clearly. This is my concern about this stuff. I can very easily see myself taking it every night and getting into trouble. Self-regulation is not something I'm good at.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

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Hazel wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:26 am I wonder if regular usage leads to becoming dependent on it to dream clearly. This is my concern about this stuff. I can very easily see myself taking it every night and getting into trouble. Self-regulation is not something I'm good at.
I've wondered about that too.

I took the suggestion from Andrew Holecek's Dream Yoga book. He mentions using it in a supplementary way when he does personal retreats and such. I'm trying to use it the same way. If I have a night set aside for practice, etc. I plan to use it occasionally, but not use it to a degree where it becomes necessary, just as an enhancement.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Hazel »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:51 am I plan to use it occasionally, but not use it to a degree where it becomes necessary, just as an enhancement.
I was never able to nail that trick! I'm kidding - I get this is different. :twothumbsup:

All this stuff is definitely developing a curiosity/interest in dream yoga for me. I'd ask my teacher, but I'm pretty sure he'd just tell me to practice more Lamrim :crying:. That should likely be its own thread, however, I don't want to hijack yours.

:focus:
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 10:26 pm The drawback is it that you can have a lucid dream while in it which feels kind of unclear or blurry, which is a strange experience. I found that simply working with techniques if you have a lucid dream your awareness is of such a level that even a mundane dream has a kind of "clearer" quality.
What do you mean by having a lucid dream "while in it"?
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Inedible »

Having bought Galantamine from more than one source online, I took the entire bottle both times. At bedtime, during the night, and both. Consecutive nights and after a short break. It didn't work for me. Initially, I did have a lucid dream, but it was the only one.

Mugwort is good for lucid dreaming. I have used pills, extracts, and loose-leaf as mugwort tea. The tea seemed like a good idea because it took some time and effort. It was more supposed to help with hypnagogia and hypnopompia rather than directly for lucid dreams.

Huperzine-A is a supplement to help with memory. It is used to have lucid dreams. I found that I would sometimes wake up and be unable to get back to sleep. Again, not much help.

I'm one of those people who has tried everything. When something works at all, it is typically just once.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Losal Samten »

Personally the prebiotic Inulin (FOS) had the greatest increase in dream vividness of any supplements and drugs I've tried, and so was much easier to trigger lucidity. It gave me gas however, whereas the prebiotic Bimuno (GOS) had no digestive side effects for me, however the dream vividness was lower.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Norwegian »

Inedible wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 4:09 am Having bought Galantamine from more than one source online, I took the entire bottle both times.
Dose for people with Alzheimer's is 8mg (4mg twice a day) to 16mg. Dose for lucid dream inducement is 4-8mg. Even so, it's not a magical pill, it only helps you with something you should already know how to do. And taking "the entire bottle" doesn't say much, except it seems to indicate you went way, way above recommended dosage, which is ridiculous and irresponsible.
Mugwort is good for lucid dreaming. I have used pills, extracts, and loose-leaf as mugwort tea. The tea seemed like a good idea because it took some time and effort. It was more supposed to help with hypnagogia and hypnopompia rather than directly for lucid dreams.
There are many drugs, chemicals, and herbs that have effects upon ones dreams, one way or the other. Just a change of diet helps, as well as going to bed early every day.
Huperzine-A is a supplement to help with memory. It is used to have lucid dreams. I found that I would sometimes wake up and be unable to get back to sleep. Again, not much help.
Huperzine-A is a cholinesterase inhibitor, just like Galantamine, with an even longer half-life, meaning it stays in your body for far longer than Galantamine. Which means if you take it too often it will quickly accumulate in your body, you will develop a tolerance towards it, and instead of improving your dreams, it does the exact opposite, as well as prohibiting you from getting lucid dreams. This is why people normally take Galantamine once or twice per week, and only once a week with Huperzine-A.

As for why you couldn't go back to sleep, it can easily do that. And you need to take very little for it to have an effect, if you take too much, you will notice it, in a bad way.
I'm one of those people who has tried everything. When something works at all, it is typically just once.
Meditating regularly as well as conducting a dream journal is highly effective, and you're not dependent on any chemicals to achieve it.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Giovanni »

I am perhaps old fashioned. I see no reason to interfere with brain chemistry. With practice, and with persisting, Dream Yoga can be done completely naturally. It can help to have hands on instruction.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Norwegian »

Giovanni wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:48 pm I am perhaps old fashioned. I see no reason to interfere with brain chemistry. With practice, and with persisting, Dream Yoga can be done completely naturally. It can help to have hands on instruction.
I agree. Certainly there are external factors that can help you though, such as going to bed early and regularly, eating nice healthy food, having a good bed to sleep in, with a good pillow, having a pen and a journal nearby and writing down your dreams since this helps you remember them more easily, and then obviously enough doing your practice as instructed by your teacher, and so on.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

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Giovanni wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:48 pm I am perhaps old fashioned. I see no reason to interfere with brain chemistry. With practice, and with persisting, Dream Yoga can be done completely naturally. It can help to have hands on instruction.
I've had hands on instruction in various forms of dream yoga from a few different teachers, including a short retreat. I'm still interested in ways of enhancing it, supports, etc. because IME they can a combine to make a difference in the practice.

So yeah, you're just old fashioned.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Matt J »

I've used it, but I generally don't recommend it for a few reasons. I think a lot of the fear is unwarranted, however. The doses at the supplement level are fairly low. I talked to a lot of medical professionals about it and no one had any issues. A lot of lucid dreamers have used it for years. The main issue is finding a legitimate supplier.

For me, it can cause nausea, and for people with sleeping issues, it can be hard to fall asleep with it. I haven't done anything with it for some time for this reason. However, as I've got my sleep issues under better control, I am planning on taking it up again alone with dream yoga.

I don't think it will work very well unless some one has a bit of a lucid dreaming base to begin with. A lot of people try it and it doesn't work--- usually people who haven't been working on lucidity and recall.

However, if it works, it can work really well. For some one unprepared, being lucid going through sleep and into dreams can be very disorienting. It feels a lot like being in the bardos, with all the negativity that comes with it.

When I use it, I would use it maybe once a week. Andrew Holocek says he uses it only on occasion. I don't think there is a "get dependent on it" issue because the consensus is generally that the more you use it, the less it works.

BTW, this June Andrew Holocek is going to start a book club using his book Dream Yoga. More info here:https://nightclub.andrewholecek.com/
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Giovanni »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 5:05 pm
Giovanni wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:48 pm I am perhaps old fashioned. I see no reason to interfere with brain chemistry. With practice, and with persisting, Dream Yoga can be done completely naturally. It can help to have hands on instruction.
I've had hands on instruction in various forms of dream yoga from a few different teachers, including a short retreat. I'm still interested in ways of enhancing it, supports, etc. because IME they can a combine to make a difference in the practice.

So yeah, you're just old fashioned.


OK. I am off to tune my banjo 🪕
Last edited by Giovanni on Mon May 24, 2021 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

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Sādhaka wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:07 am The galantamine you can buy without a prescription, says that it’s extract of lycoris radiata and nothing more. But one brand says it’s a extract of galanthus nivalis. :shrug:

From Scienceblog.com:

It is an alkaloid that has been isolated from the bulbs and flowers of Galanthus caucasicus (Caucasian snowdrop), Galanthus woronowii (Voronov’s snowdrop), and some other members of the family Amaryllidaceae, such as Narcissus (daffodil), Leucojum aestivum (snowflake), and Lycoris including Lycoris radiata (red spider lily).[3]
Last edited by Sādhaka on Mon May 24, 2021 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

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Matt J wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 5:22 pm I've used it, but I generally don't recommend it for a few reasons. I think a lot of the fear is unwarranted, however. The doses at the supplement level are fairly low. I talked to a lot of medical professionals about it and no one had any issues. A lot of lucid dreamers have used it for years. The main issue is finding a legitimate supplier.

For me, it can cause nausea, and for people with sleeping issues, it can be hard to fall asleep with it. I haven't done anything with it for some time for this reason. However, as I've got my sleep issues under better control, I am planning on taking it up again alone with dream yoga.

I don't think it will work very well unless some one has a bit of a lucid dreaming base to begin with. A lot of people try it and it doesn't work--- usually people who haven't been working on lucidity and recall.

However, if it works, it can work really well. For some one unprepared, being lucid going through sleep and into dreams can be very disorienting. It feels a lot like being in the bardos, with all the negativity that comes with it.

When I use it, I would use it maybe once a week. Andrew Holocek says he uses it only on occasion. I don't think there is a "get dependent on it" issue because the consensus is generally that the more you use it, the less it works.

BTW, this June Andrew Holocek is going to start a book club using his book Dream Yoga. More info here:https://nightclub.andrewholecek.com/
Yeah, I've had a few opportunities during Covid to get away for a day or two for personal retreats (yay for understanding partner who helps me do that). My thought with the Galantamine is to use it some during those periods perhaps. Thanks for the book club mention, I really like his book and will check that out.
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Re: Galantamine and dream yoga

Post by Matt J »

I used to do Lucid Fridays. It was pretty cool.
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 6:22 pm Yeah, I've had a few opportunities during Covid to get away for a day or two for personal retreats (yay for understanding partner who helps me do that). My thought with the Galantamine is to use it some during those periods perhaps. Thanks for the book club mention, I really like his book and will check that out.
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