Fasting

A place to discuss health and fitness, including healthy diets, etc.
Post Reply
microbodhi
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:35 am

Fasting

Post by microbodhi »

Greetings and Wellbeing to All

Fasting has been part of spiritual and religious practices for thousands of years, and still is.

Yes we all know that siddharta found the middle way, although this meaning has many angles, some which scholars and intellectuals wont agree with due to lack of experience, so lets not over deliberate on this.

But lets stick with some science and experience rather than programmed belief and opinion's based on views. Im exploring health fasting with balance, that is beneficial and has lasting effects.

Fasting has many benefits, both physically and consciously, im familiar with some practice's within the yoga traditions and Ayurveda but not so much in Tibetan medicines , in Ayurveda if one is ill its recommended to fast for seven days and take herbs to clean the body and the healthy anti bodies gain power to regain health.

Lets look on the other side, over eating is very detrimental for the health, yes the middle way calls and obviously fasting cant be done all the time, but the middle way may have some currency in regular short fasts alongside a healthy diet.

If people have experiences in this rather than views(opinion's) i would be interested to hear them. Myself personally i do regular fasts and have found immense benefit's, one of which recently i cured joint pains, i also consider that a alkaline diet is the best and usage of certain herbs are extremely good, and boost meditations clarity and balance.
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9439
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Fasting

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Strictly following the Vinaya (monastic rules) monks do not eat solid food after 12:00 noon, and then, not until breakfast following morning rituals. Lunch is the big meal, but ends at11:59 a.m.
So basically that’s fasting every day for 14-18 hours.
The Thai monks I know are very healthy and happy with it.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Fasting

Post by Sādhaka »

Fasting regularly is much better than none at all.

Excessive fasting can be detrimental though.

Anyhow, it’s more about letting the body get into ketosis & getting extra autophagy, than it is about “calories-in calories-out”.

The number of calories matters too; just not as much as most think.

For an example, two people who both have an intake of 3,000 calories a day each:

The first one who eats a couple large meals in a 6 hour window each day (like monks do, as Padmavonsamba said), is better off, than the other one who has 3 or 4 smaller meals yet the same amount of calories in an standard American diet-style 16 hour window.

The former would have the benefit of that same number of calories (assuming they need that many), yet is also able to get into ketosis/autophagy for a larger percentage of the day. Now this all kind of assumes a relatively low carb diet, because carbs & sugar store more glycogen, and you don’t go into ketosis until all your glycogen stores are used up.

This in regard to intermittent-fasting anyway.... Someone who snacks all day doesn’t give their system a rest, and so even if they’re only eating 2,500 calories a day, they repeatedly induce a metabolic response that kicks them out of ketosis just before they were about to get into it, or right after they get into ketosis. Whereas, the person who just gets all their calories in, in a smaller window, will, once they get into ketosis, stay in it for how ever many hours they have left until their next eating window.

But ketosis isn’t even the main benefit (unless one is overweight), and extra autophagy is what you want to go for, for your telomeres, overall health, etc.
Last edited by Sādhaka on Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 4844
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: Fasting

Post by Virgo »

Fasting on a Tuesday is good for overcoming your enemies/ending disputes, etc. It works quite well.

Virgo
PeterC
Posts: 5191
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Fasting

Post by PeterC »

Virgo wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:11 am Fasting on a Tuesday is good for overcoming your enemies/ending disputes, etc. It works quite well.

Virgo
Interesting. Seems like a win-win - lose weight, improve health and overcome enemies all at once. What's the source for that?
User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 4844
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: Fasting

Post by Virgo »

PeterC wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:31 pm
Interesting. Seems like a win-win - lose weight, improve health and overcome enemies all at once. What's the source for that?
Astrological tradition of Sanjay Rath, etc.

Virgo
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:23 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Fasting

Post by DNS »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:42 am Strictly following the Vinaya (monastic rules) monks do not eat solid food after 12:00 noon, and then, not until breakfast following morning rituals. Lunch is the big meal, but ends at11:59 a.m.
So basically that’s fasting every day for 14-18 hours.
The Thai monks I know are very healthy and happy with it.
Some monks and even some Theravada lay people do one meal a day (OMAD). Then it becomes about 23 to 24 hours between meals. It's actually not too hard, as long as you consume enough calories in the one big meal (lunch). Here's a thread we have over at DWT:

https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3045
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Fasting

Post by Sādhaka »

DNS wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:16 pmSome monks and even some Theravada lay people do one meal a day (OMAD). Then it becomes about 23 to 24 hours between meals. It's actually not too hard, as long as you consume enough calories in the one big meal (lunch). Here's a thread we have over at DWT:

My issue with this, is food combining per Ayurveda, and getting all of one’s micronutrients in.

In other words, it’s not easy to find foods that you can combine in one meal, in order to get all of your micros.

And multivitamins are helpful, but IMO they don’t replace getting your micronutrients from actual food.

The closest thing you could get to a single food that has almost everything you need, would be eating grass fed liver (it even has a pretty high Vitamin K2 content).

Vegetarian-wise, grass fed A2 milk would be the closest thing, but it’s still missing enough folate and iron....

Eating within a 5 or 6 hour window, you can space incompatible foods by a couple hours.

I guess you could just mix a variety of foods in a OMAD, and deal with the consequences of bad food combinations mentioned by Ayurveda, which might be offset by the benefits of fasting 23 hours everyday.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17090
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Fasting

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

There's good evidence now for limited use of fasting being healthy.

Not sure you need Dharma to justify it, though it's nice that we have practices that coincide.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
microbodhi
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:35 am

Re: Fasting

Post by microbodhi »

Sādhaka wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:44 pm
DNS wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:16 pmSome monks and even some Theravada lay people do one meal a day (OMAD). Then it becomes about 23 to 24 hours between meals. It's actually not too hard, as long as you consume enough calories in the one big meal (lunch). Here's a thread we have over at DWT:

My issue with this, is food combining per Ayurveda, and getting all of one’s micronutrients in.

In other words, it’s not easy to find foods that you can combine in one meal, in order to get all of your micros.

And multivitamins are helpful, but IMO they don’t replace getting your micronutrients from actual food.

The closest thing you could get to a single food that has almost everything you need, would be eating grass fed liver (it even has a pretty high Vitamin K2 content).

Vegetarian-wise, grass fed A2 milk would be the closest thing, but it’s still missing enough folate and iron....

Eating within a 5 or 6 hour window, you can space incompatible foods by a couple hours.

I guess you could just mix a variety of foods in a OMAD, and deal with the consequences of bad food combinations mentioned by Ayurveda, which might be offset by the benefits of fasting 23 hours everyday.
Sādhaka

A good source of all the micronutrients one needs is with fermented foods, and Sauerkraut which is also good for vitamin K2

Thanks for all the interesting replies

There are many types of fasts, half days fasts once or twice a weekly

One day fast a week

Intermittent fasting, one meal a day

fruits fasts

3 days fasts

7 days fasts

and many more upto 40 days but one needs experience with fasting for this, and they can range from light meals to juices smoothies fruits or no grains to water only and some as complete dry fasts.

I think the ancients knew the value of fasting but now science is confirming.

Does fasting benefit mediation and spiritual practice, i think the ancients would not separate fasting and spiritual practice or being healthy and keeping the body clean and in the best condition possible

I do a number a ways of fasting primarily from the lunisolar calendar, half days on Monday and Thursday and even 11 days of the lunar cycles and some other ones in between.

Im currently on a fast, im into day 10 and feeling very good, Tuesday i did a full dry fast, my daily routine is herbal teas, followed later by zeolite powder in water to clean out any heavy metals, among other benefits and late evening i have a smoothies composed of a handful of dates, one apple, some lsa mix , hemp seeds and a few super food powders and psyllium husk. My energy has been very good and i have no craving for foods. I will switch soon to a fruit fast, then all green veg smoothie fast and then gradually work myself back to one meal a day with green smoothie for breakfast. I do this once a year the duration will be 30 days in total, in between i will sometimes do a full water fast and also a dry fasting.

Sauerkraut which some say originates with Chinese Daoists is a real super food, i ate a lot of fermented foods especially cabbage in my time in Korea and i felt very healthy and light with very good energy, its is also an excellent source of populating healthy microbiomes in the gut, there is a very deep science behind microbiome or jeevanu in sanskrit to the awakening and inner alchemic process. I make my own sauerkraut and also add things like ginger , turmeric, beetroots and so on, and fermenting vegetables most of which one can do is very good idea. We have three brains, one at the base of the spine, one in the gut and one in the head, when all three brains communicate in the right way then bodhi can occur and one enters dharma of the way, or ones true nature.
Last edited by microbodhi on Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Fasting

Post by Sādhaka »

Dry fasting is great.

The longest fast I’ve done was between 80 and 96 hours; which was last late-spring/early-summer so I don’t remember exactly. And between around 60 and 72 hours of it was dry. I messed up the re-feed though, and as an result felt pretty sick for an couple days. Next time I think I’ll break it with water, then electrolyte water, then maybe some coconut water (some say fresh grape juice with baking soda is the best way to break a long dry fast), then drink raw milk, but very slowly to gauge how my body reacts.

A five day dry fast should kick parasites. Not that all parasites are bad; but it would be good to kick them all out every once in a while, then start over with replenishing the microbiome.

https://inspiredbyhilde.com/freaky-experience-ever/

:shock:

There’s a Russian author, whose name I don’t recall at the moment, who recommends building up to a eleven day dry fast; but says no more than five days should be attempted without medical supervision. One lady claimed that by doing a couple eleven day dry fasts, she regrew, I believe her thyroid gland that had been removed. Her idea was that there must have been a group of thyroid cells left behind by the surgeon, that was the basis for the dry fasts growing it back. Tendai monks do nine days dry, but also no sleep during that period (!!). The sleep deprivation part there I don’t get....

In general excessive fasting can become unhealthy.

Ayurveda considers fermented foods to be generally tamasic. But much better to get K2 than none not all. The kind from animal products (MK-4) is said to be overall superior to the kind from plant-based foods (MK-7); but again, better to get some than not at all. And I’m not sure how much kimchi and so on has, but one good vegetarian source is from New York Nattō:

https://www.nyrture.com/why-natto

https://www.nyrture.com/order-natto?gcl ... category=0
User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 4844
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: Fasting

Post by Virgo »

Virgo wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:16 pm
Astrological tradition of Sanjay Rath, etc.

Virgo
It's also pretty well known in general in India, Peter. These kinds of things are often done to gain favor of certain deities and get their blessings and are sometimes recommended along with prayers or pujas, etc. (tuesday would be to gain the favor of Hanuman). But these things work on their own due to the power of the grahas.

Virgo
microbodhi
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:35 am

Re: Fasting

Post by microbodhi »

Sādhaka wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:10 pm Dry fasting is great.

The longest fast I’ve done was between 80 and 96 hours; which was last late-spring/early-summer so I don’t remember exactly. And between around 60 and 72 hours of it was dry. I messed up the re-feed though, and as an result felt pretty sick for an couple days. Next time I think I’ll break it with water, then electrolyte water, then maybe some coconut water (some say fresh grape juice with baking soda is the best way to break a long dry fast), then drink raw milk, but very slowly to gauge how my body reacts.

A five day dry fast should kick parasites. Not that all parasites are bad; but it would be good to kick them all out every once in a while, then start over with replenishing the microbiome.

https://inspiredbyhilde.com/freaky-experience-ever/

:shock:

There’s a Russian author, whose name I don’t recall at the moment, who recommends building up to a eleven day dry fast; but says no more than five days should be attempted without medical supervision. One lady claimed that by doing a couple eleven day dry fasts, she regrew, I believe her thyroid gland that had been removed. Her idea was that there must have been a group of thyroid cells left behind by the surgeon, that was the basis for the dry fasts growing it back. Tendai monks do nine days dry, but also no sleep during that period (!!). The sleep deprivation part there I don’t get....

In general excessive fasting can become unhealthy.

Ayurveda considers fermented foods to be generally tamasic. But much better to get K2 than none not all. The kind from animal products (MK-4) is said to be overall superior to the kind from plant-based foods (MK-7); but again, better to get some than not at all. And I’m not sure how much kimchi and so on has, but one good vegetarian source is from New York Nattō:

https://www.nyrture.com/why-natto

https://www.nyrture.com/order-natto?gcl ... category=0

Its very important to break the fast in the right way, i would not recommend dry to fast to anyone who does not have experience or does the right research, it can be very dangerous and counter productive, but very good once one knows how to do it. I follow a lunisolar calendar for my fasts, so having some structure is best. Also having a good environment, if one has busy job or stressful environment a fast maybe counter productive.

In regards to parasites , this doesn't bother me, i looked at that website and call me a sceptic but a person who is doing cleansing professionally has a 12 inch parasite sounds like marketing but i could be wrong. I take papaya seeds and leave it at that and dont over think the rest.

I follow Ayurveda as much as possible for 30 years, i never heard that fermented foods are tamasic there are many fermented chutneys and lassi among others, there are 6 tastes or rasa as you know and sour is one of them. The science behind fermented foods also speaks for itself, not just for K2 but als0 for healthy gut bacteria for an optimum digestive system, mainly in ayurveda everything revolves around the digestive system, if this is healthy your good to go. I have been vegetarian for over 30 years and vegan for maybe last 5 years and my health is very good, it may not work for others, so im not promoting anything.

The science of Ayurveda is a very personal one, and the lila of Neelkantha Mahadeva is a key yoga to understanding the subtleties of this science of being. From this science one becomes one's own kaviraja, that's the essence of swa dharma, or knowing ones own nature from within, ones own being, so being mindful of what we eat and what works and does not work is perhaps the best way to go for a person who is doing meditation and trying to live more consciously and being in touch with your local/native environment which we are part of is key.

If one is doing for sadhana reasons, i have always found that breathwork, pranayama, Holotropic Breathing and chi/prana work , asana is vital for citta bhavana and maintaining good energy without any craving to cleanse the samskaras and vasana. Generally all of my fast are based on sadhana's .
Last edited by microbodhi on Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
Post Reply

Return to “Wellness, Diet and Fitness”