Giving Up Masturbation

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penalvad_uba
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by penalvad_uba »

Nonono, masturbation is also natural if you control lust, you can even use it to achieve states of bliss and then apply together with vipasyana to achieve emptyness.
You can use it with imaginary consort in Vajrayana sadhanas. There is nothing saying about non virtue of masturbation in lay man vows. This what you say applies for.monastics only.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

penalvad_uba wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:49 pm Nonono, masturbation is also natural if you control lust, you can even use it to achieve states of bliss and then apply together with vipasyana to achieve emptyness.
You can use it with imaginary consort in Vajrayana sadhanas. There is nothing saying about non virtue of masturbation in lay man vows. This what you say applies for.monastics only.
This actually depends really. From Buddha directly, there is nothing. In some later texts masturbation, oral sex, anal sex, sex during day, etc. are all forms of misconduct. However, I think there is a reason to believe those were mostly societal/cultural norms. Like if you live in a society with bad hygiene where there is an entire family in one room it is only natural to be as discreet as possible and without some extra orifices, etc.
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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by SilenceMonkey »

penalvad_uba wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:49 pm Nonono, masturbation is also natural if you control lust, you can even use it to achieve states of bliss and then apply together with vipasyana to achieve emptyness.
You can use it with imaginary consort in Vajrayana sadhanas. There is nothing saying about non virtue of masturbation in lay man vows. This what you say applies for.monastics only.
Maybe if you receive those practices from a qualified tantric master...
penalvad_uba
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by penalvad_uba »

Not only that sir, as a sentient being nobody is doing harm itself by training on masturbation and not lusting, nor doing harm to others by doing samsara sex and not grasping.

There is none about sexuality as unwholesome. Except for Bhramacarya vows, which by the way is another pace to setup on the path, and a lot of monks really have bad times in averting sexual impulses to deplet desire.

Its not really Buddha teaching, is up your choice the vow you gonna commit, they are diverse path, but please dont demonize sexuality. Its not a Mara.
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by penalvad_uba »

Könchok Thrinley wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:40 pm
penalvad_uba wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:49 pm Nonono, masturbation is also natural if you control lust, you can even use it to achieve states of bliss and then apply together with vipasyana to achieve emptyness.
You can use it with imaginary consort in Vajrayana sadhanas. There is nothing saying about non virtue of masturbation in lay man vows. This what you say applies for.monastics only.
This actually depends really. From Buddha directly, there is nothing. In some later texts masturbation, oral sex, anal sex, sex during day, etc. are all forms of misconduct. However, I think there is a reason to believe those were mostly societal/cultural norms. Like if you live in a society with bad hygiene where there is an entire family in one room it is only natural to be as discreet as possible and without some extra orifices, etc.
Agree. Culture is not Dharma. But generally deturpates Dharma.
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ManiThePainter
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by ManiThePainter »

My two cents:

Many of us are carrying a lot of baggage from our cultural background. This includes cultural mores and attitudes towards sex. Many will display an aversion to masturbation, pornography etc. due to these attitudes either because “it feels wrong” or because it does not resonate with our idea of what constitutes a “holy life.”

A constructive way to realize this would be to take a good look at ourselves and ask whether we might not be influenced by such cultural tie-ups. Is it not possible that our cultural views on porn and masturbation determine how we feel about these things? Could it not be that it is where our neurotic sexual attitudes stem from? This sense of “wrong” must be socially and culturally determined since there exists (and existed) great variation in attitudes towards sex across the world.

For example, while I grew up in a non-religious household it was also a household where certain Lutheran attitudes towards sex were present. Sex was not talked about, masturbation was shameful and pornography was taboo. Nobody really questioned it, that was just how it was. Those attitudes have determined my own feelings regarding sexuality and masturbation for decades.

It is a struggle to try and see past this. It’s like problems of Orientalism and ethnocentrism. How can we break through our cultural way of thinking if it determines how we think? Are we actually capable of thinking outside of our culture? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But for starters we should examine our feelings and attitudes and ask ourselves if they could be culturally determined. Saying “no, no, no” doesn’t do anything.
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Budai »

People should be concerned with whether it's something they want to do, and if they don't, then consider to stop doing it. We live in a degraded age where humanity is hindered with all kinds of negative influence, so it's important to be healthy. Maybe we shouldn't pass judgement, but we should care whether people are going through behaviour they don't like, and want to get to get to a different place in their life. People should have healthy sexual freedom. As Buddhists we should pursue morality and I think that means protecting people's freedom. But monastics have rules, for example, and celibacy counts for a powerful Spiritual state in Buddhism. So it's good to help people be celibate as Buddhists if that's what they fully want to be, in full kindness, and if they don't, support them all the same. I don't doubt the Buddha's intentions in asking for celibacy for a large part of the Sangha, but Laypeople take refuge too, and we have to respect each other. Namaste.
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Dharmasherab
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Dharmasherab »

If one is releasing semen its always best to release it inside a woman's vagina for making a baby. Other instances include if a doctor (such as one educated in Tibetan medicine) recommends to release semen from time to time as part of therapy. As for masturbation provided that one does not release semen, it can be helpful to maintain sexual continence and prevent release of semen when engaged in coitus for pleasure (i.e. when the intention is not to make a baby).

If one is a fully ordained monk (Gelong) then one should not masturbate or have sex. If one's Lama recommends consort practice then best to disrobe first and engage in that practice if the Lama thinks that it is really necessary.

Overall, for lay Buddhists regardless of which tradition, it is best to not masturbate especially to release semen. One loses one's life essence everytime when one releases sperm. A lot of nutrients from the blood go into making semen, so wasting it is abuse of the body.
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Hazel »

Dharmasherab wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:08 pm If one is releasing semen its always best to release it inside a woman's vagina for making a baby. Other instances include if a doctor (such as one educated in Tibetan medicine) recommends to release semen from time to time as part of therapy. As for masturbation provided that one does not release semen, it can be helpful to maintain sexual continence and prevent release of semen when engaged in coitus for pleasure (i.e. when the intention is not to make a baby).

If one is a fully ordained monk (Gelong) then one should not masturbate or have sex. If one's Lama recommends consort practice then best to disrobe first and engage in that practice if the Lama thinks that it is really necessary.

Overall, for lay Buddhists regardless of which tradition, it is best to not masturbate especially to release semen. One loses one's life essence everytime when one releases sperm. A lot of nutrients from the blood go into making semen, so wasting it is abuse of the body.
Not only is this wildly medically incorrect (doctors actually recommend regular semen release for a healthier prostate), this is also against Buddhist teachings. It also revolves around homophobia unless your point is that the Buddha taught all pleasure was bad, which is flat out not true.
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Malcolm »

Dharmasherab wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:08 pm One loses one's life essence everytime when one releases sperm. A lot of nutrients from the blood go into making semen, so wasting it is abuse of the body.
This is not correct. Semen, bija, is the final waste product of the process of digesting food. The pure part of sukra is transformed in ojas, the impure part becomes the bija.
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Dharmasherab wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:08 pm If one is releasing semen its always best to release it inside a woman's vagina for making a baby.
:rolling: "Always best"? FFS I can tell you don't have kids.

Seriously though, cite your sources if you're giving out such broad advice.
Dharmasherab wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:08 pm it can be helpful to maintain sexual continence and prevent release of semen when engaged in coitus for pleasure (i.e. when the intention is not to make a baby).
Helpful for what? Sounding like you know what you're talking about on forums? Giving you super powers?
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by reiun »

Only one post, as far as I can tell, from a woman, on six pages of comments on this thread. That comment was to bring some sanity to the discussion. No doubt other women may be too discreet, too classy? Or not so wound up, but under control instead.
IMO: Healthy sex with the right partner, for some single . . . males on this forum bemoaning their miserable condition, ought to be at the top of the list of options (share something equally, relate, offer love and comfort), now that COVID has subsided, followed by sublimation, in line with right effort to benefit others through activities like volunteering, etc., or just exercising for fitness/self-care, and thus being better able to take care of others. Self indulgence should be last.
(". . ." considered some choice adjectives here, but 'sublimated' them)
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

reiun wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:08 am Only one post, as far as I can tell, from a woman, on six pages of comments on this thread. That comment was to bring some sanity to the discussion. No doubt other women may be too discreet, too classy? Or not so wound up, but under control instead.
IMO: Healthy sex with the right partner, for some single . . . males on this forum bemoaning their miserable condition, ought to be at the top of the list of options (share something equally, relate, offer love and comfort), now that COVID has subsided, followed by sublimation, in line with right effort to benefit others through activities like volunteering, etc., or just exercising for fitness/self-care, and thus being better able to take care of others. Self indulgence should be last.
(". . ." considered some choice adjectives here, but 'sublimated' them)
Are you implying here that women don't masturbate, or....?

This is a thread full of frankness, maybe it's better to just say what you think.

I'm not sure I think there is actually any such thing as "healthy sex". That's the same sort of mythical creature as "normal person". I think people (almost by definition) bring all of their neuroses, both conscious and unconscious into sex, including masturbation. That includes people having vanilla sex too, because sex is not just physical acts, but also what is happening in the mindstream at the time. Now of course there is a difference between a couple having regular, unremarkable sex, a young pent up guy masturbating, and some BDSM swingers going wild or something, but it's a question of degree and sex is pretty much indulgent by nature.

Once we see it that way we can just approach our sex life specifically from a viewpoint of harm reduction, instead of engaging in moralistic self-flagellation, shooting for some ideal of how sex is supposed to be, etc.

Here's my two cents:

Masturbation (and sex itself for some people)ofte functions in a manner similar to drugs and alcohol, a pleasurable diversion, a way to procrastinate or avoid something, and sometimes a way to just run away from whatever one is always running from. Of course sometimes it's also just a way to have fun with your partner, give each other pleasure..which is not as deep a thing as it's often romanticized as, from my point of view. It sure is fun though.

If someone is having trouble masturbating compulsively the first thing I would say it is look at the circumstances surrounding their masturbation, chances are it is not just as simple as wanting to do it....with the possible exception of post-pubescent young men, where the drive is just so amped up. Literally keep a journal of emotions around the behavior and see if there's a pattern.
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reiun
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by reiun »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:41 am
reiun wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:08 am Only one post, as far as I can tell, from a woman, on six pages of comments on this thread. That comment was to bring some sanity to the discussion. No doubt other women may be too discreet, too classy? Or not so wound up, but under control instead.
IMO: Healthy sex with the right partner, for some single . . . males on this forum bemoaning their miserable condition, ought to be at the top of the list of options (share something equally, relate, offer love and comfort), now that COVID has subsided, followed by sublimation, in line with right effort to benefit others through activities like volunteering, etc., or just exercising for fitness/self-care, and thus being better able to take care of others. Self indulgence should be last.
(". . ." considered some choice adjectives here, but 'sublimated' them)
Are you implying here that women don't masturbate, or....?

This is a thread full of frankness, maybe it's better to just say what you think.
My first intention was to note that women haven't participated in this thread. In addition to the reasons speculated, modesty and risk of repercussion may be factors. (It may be unfortunate that one has to moderate it, but that is only projecting on my part.)

My second intention was to introduce other options that, for some, might be healthier or more productive.
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Malcolm »

To wank or not to wank, that is the question,
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer…
reiun
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by reiun »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:34 am To wank or not to wank, that is the question,
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer…
Haha!
Or to be "frank"
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Dharmasherab
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Dharmasherab »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:49 pm
Dharmasherab wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:08 pm If one is releasing semen its always best to release it inside a woman's vagina for making a baby.
:rolling: "Always best"? FFS I can tell you don't have kids. Seriously though, cite your sources if you're giving out such broad advice.


Well that is the physiological function of sex. You dont need to cite references. If you did basic biology lessons you would know that a baby is born usually when coitus happens between a penis and a vagina (that is between a male and a female in case you were confused about that).

Better to avoid use of 'FFS'. Try to use your language more responsibly when being a moderator.
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:49 pm
Dharmasherab wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:08 pm it can be helpful to maintain sexual continence and prevent release of semen when engaged in coitus for pleasure (i.e. when the intention is not to make a baby).
Helpful for what? Sounding like you know what you're talking about on forums? Giving you super powers?
It well known that retaining semen has benefits over frequent ejaculation. Monastics dont have to concern themselves with this given that they are meant to be committed to celibacy. As for non-celibates it is known that successful people in sports as well as spiritual development have engaged in semen retention and used that for transformation.
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Dharmasherab
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Dharmasherab »

Hazel wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:13 pm Not only is this wildly medically incorrect (doctors actually recommend regular semen release for a healthier prostate),
There is actually no significant relationship between how often one ejaculates and the risk of prostate cancer. The claim that you are making are the same type that is used by the porn industry to justify watching of porn.

For the record, I was a doctor (in western medicine) before becoming a monastic postulant.
Hazel wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:13 pm this is also against Buddhist teachings.


Having sex with one's wife to have a baby is not against the Buddhist teachings. The reason why you were born is because your parents had sex.
Hazel wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:13 pm It also revolves around homophobia unless your point is that the Buddha taught all pleasure was bad, which is flat out not true.


Actually it is not as far as heterosexual couples are concerned. As for gay people they may do as they wish with their consenting partners. You should not be making false accusations against people that you do not know about.
Last edited by Dharmasherab on Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dharmasherab
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Dharmasherab »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:15 pm This is not correct. Semen, bija, is the final waste product of the process of digesting food. The pure part of sukra is transformed in ojas, the impure part becomes the bija.
Understood. But there must be more than one reason why monastics have to follow a celibacy vow. The most obvious of which is sense restraint. But other than this dont you think that the other reason is semen retention?
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Dharmasherab
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Dharmasherab »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:41 am I'm not sure I think there is actually any such thing as "healthy sex". That's the same sort of mythical creature as "normal person".
There is no one single way of engaging in sexual activity in a manner which causes no or minimum harm. Clearly there are ways which it can result in harm at the level of the body as well as the mind. But this doesn't mean that every single type of sexual activity is harmful as far as lay people are concerned.
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:41 am I think people (almost by definition) bring all of their neuroses, both conscious and unconscious into sex, including masturbation. Once we see it that way we can just approach our sex life specifically from a viewpoint of harm reduction, instead of engaging in moralistic self-flagellation, shooting for some ideal of how sex is supposed to be, etc.


The problem with thinking in this manner is that it fails to make distinction between sex which does no or little apparent harm compared with types of sexual activity which are done intentionally to cause harm to another or to gain pleasure at the expense of the suffering of others. Labelling another's view as 'moralistic self-flagellation' seems like a convenient catchphrase to justify sexual immorality when one speaks from ones disturbing emotions which is void of wisdom.

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:41 am Here's my two cents:

Masturbation (and sex itself for some people)ofte functions in a manner similar to drugs and alcohol, a pleasurable diversion, a way to procrastinate or avoid something, and sometimes a way to just run away from whatever one is always running from. Of course sometimes it's also just a way to have fun with your partner, give each other pleasure..which is not as deep a thing as it's often romanticized as, from my point of view. It sure is fun though.

If someone is having trouble masturbating compulsively the first thing I would say it is look at the circumstances surrounding their masturbation, chances are it is not just as simple as wanting to do it....with the possible exception of post-pubescent young men, where the drive is just so amped up. Literally keep a journal of emotions around the behavior and see if there's a pattern.
If overcoming an addiction habit was that easy then we wont have a need for psychotherapists. it is actually a lot more complicated than this. One may not always need to have problems with their life's circumstances to develop a compulsive habit towards maturbation. The activity itself get people hooked on even when there are no surrounding issues.
“When one does not understand death, life can be very confusing.” - Ajahn Chah
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