Great Vegan Debate

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seeker242
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by seeker242 »

tatpurusa wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 2:29 pm
seeker242 wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 2:03 pm
You are right in saying ALA conversion into EPA and DHA is inefficient. However, you are wrong in saying this will not be enough because you intentionally dismiss supplements, which is inappropriate and intellectually dishonest. I've been doing research on this for over 25 years, I'm quiet familiar with the research.
Actually consumption of DHA (from fish and from bone marrow and brain of big animal) was that helped the rapid growth
and development of human brain during evolution making us human in the first place.
What helped us evolve 30,000 years ago, isn't relevant.
Organisms are incredibly complex and to a high degree their physiological and biochemical functions are not understood.
Eating natural (yes, this exists!) food with its naturally immense complexity of ingredients is absolutely not comparable to
consuming supplements. As I said earlier, supplements are at the most an emergency measure in order to alleviate the gravest
consequences of an inadequate diet.
Our organism expects and is adapted to receive all nutrients in their natural (note that this exists and valid) complexity and not in an oversimplified form
like supplements are, without the thousands of other substances naturally occurring in living organisms.

Natural food contains thousands of ingredients in a balanced form that synergetically work together.
You should stop drinking milk as drinking the breastmilk of another species isn't natural. "Natural = good" is not valid in any form,
Supplements are overpurified, unbalanced substances not expected to be consumed by living organisms.
They are useful as an emergency measure, not as a real solution.
Like I said, most B12 that you find in your milk and meat, that comes from supplements! You should stop getting your B12 from milk and meat because it comes from supplements that the farmers give the animals, and that's not natural.
Chances are that there are still a lot of unknown substances essential to human health contained in real food, so good luck
substituting it with artificial creations.
Chances are that the people with PhDs in nutrition science know more about this than anyone here. I'm simply quoting them, not some guy with a blog.
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.
I'm not the one writing this, nor is it some guy with a blog.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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Nemo
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Nemo »

Vegan puritanism is one of the biggest obstacles to making more people vegetarian. It's a dogma with articles of faith that make them pure and better than everyone else. People see right through the tainted motivation and rightly ridicule them.
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seeker242
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by seeker242 »

Vegan puritanism is one of the biggest obstacles to making more people vegetarian. It's a dogma with articles of faith that make them pure and better than everyone else. People see right through the tainted motivation and rightly ridicule them.
That's what you call an "ad hominem" argument, which is by definition illogical and unreasonable.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
tatpurusa
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by tatpurusa »

seeker242 wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 2:43 pm
You should stop drinking milk as drinking the breastmilk of another species isn't natural. "Natural = good" is not valid in any form,

Chances are that the people with PhDs in nutrition science know more about this than anyone here. I'm simply quoting them, not some guy with a blog.
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.
I'm not the one writing this, nor is it some guy with a blog.
Right.
Like you should avoid sun exposure because it causes cancer.
You'd rather go to a solarium and take Vit. D supplements. Much better.
Eat your scam margarine, I stay with plain butter.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

I would like to remind us all to remain civil. It is just food plus you won't change anyone's mind on the internet so no need to get heated. Providing sources would be lovely.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
tatpurusa
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by tatpurusa »

An example of official recommendations based on "scientifc" research.
The same happened with sugar, carbohydrates, fat, tobacco, you name it.
The whole system is manipulated.

https://www.sott.net/article/413168-Coc ... port-finds
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

tatpurusa wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 10:10 pm An example of official recommendations based on "scientifc" research.
The same happened with sugar, carbohydrates, fat, tobacco, you name it.
The whole system is manipulated.

https://www.sott.net/article/413168-Coc ... port-finds
Yes, naturally but how is research about plant based diet paid. Who pays for it? Big Broccoli? We know very well that many researches that "prove" the benefits of eggs, butter, milk, meat are paid by huge companies that sell those products. However, the fact that there are rotten papers does not mean the whole thing is rotten. That is just silly and throws away the baby with the water. Whole science is full of bad papers (for example the famous vaccine "paper" that was a sham and now thanks to it there are outbreaks of measles, hooray). We cannot reject all authority just because some of them fail sometimes.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
tatpurusa
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by tatpurusa »

Miroku wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 10:19 pm Yes, naturally but how is research about plant based diet paid. Who pays for it? Big Broccoli? We know very well that many researches that "prove" the benefits of eggs, butter, milk, meat are paid by huge companies that sell those products. However, the fact that there are rotten papers does not mean the whole thing is rotten. That is just silly and throws away the baby with the water. Whole science is full of bad papers (for example the famous vaccine "paper" that was a sham and now thanks to it there are outbreaks of measles, hooray). We cannot reject all authority just because some of them fail sometimes.
An example of long term systematic manipulation:
https://www.sott.net/article/397801-Sev ... etarianism
Last edited by tatpurusa on Sat May 25, 2019 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tatpurusa
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by tatpurusa »

More about DHA

The Brain Needs Animal Fat
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... animal-fat
Last edited by tatpurusa on Sat May 25, 2019 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KathyLauren
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by KathyLauren »

Nemo wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 5:19 pm Vegan puritanism is one of the biggest obstacles to making more people vegetarian. It's a dogma with articles of faith that make them pure and better than everyone else. People see right through the tainted motivation and rightly ridicule them.
This is Wrong Speech. It is not ever right to ridicule anyone. Quite apart from all your wrong assumptions about the motivations of typical vegans.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
DharmaN00b
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by DharmaN00b »

The only time we should open our mouths Is when we're scarfing veggies. This isn't the 1980's anymore. :mrgreen:
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seeker242
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by seeker242 »

tatpurusa wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 8:03 pm Right.
Like you should avoid sun exposure because it causes cancer.
You'd rather go to a solarium and take Vit. D supplements. Much better.
Eat your scam margarine, I stay with plain butter.
It doesn't matter what you stay with or don't stay with. If you make critical comments about veganism, in a debate veganism thread, it's quite unrealistic to expect no one to challenge them, especially when they are false.
tatpurusa wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 10:47 pm More about DHA

The Brain Needs Animal Fat
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... animal-fat
No, the brain does not need animal fat. The brain needs DHA, which is easily solved with supplementation. But that's unnatural. It's also irrelevant according to the very article you posted as it states. "If you choose a plant-based diet, supplement properly Thankfully, vegetarian and vegan-friendly DHA supplements extracted from algae are available."

No reason why vegan can't have proper DHA.

Some actual science regarding DHA.

One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

:good:
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
tatpurusa
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by tatpurusa »

seeker242 wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 12:30 am
Some actual science regarding DHA.

Who is Michael Greger
https://www.stopbeingconfusedabouthealt ... eger-pt-1/
https://www.thatnerdysciencegirl.com/20 ... tionfacts/
tatpurusa
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by tatpurusa »

EAT-Lancet's Plant-Based Planet: 10 Things You Need to Know
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -need-know
tatpurusa
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by tatpurusa »

Plant-Based Diets, Micronutrients and Mental Health
https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/micronutr ... al-health/
tatpurusa
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by tatpurusa »

Make no mistake, the "enlightened" viewpoint circulating through media and society at large, proclaiming veganism as the ideal diet for health and the environment, is entirely socially engineered and nothing like the grass roots movement it's presented as. These are corporate interests being served, making the vegan diet a corporate-endorsed one. What better way to signal your fealty to our corporate overlords than to sacrifice your own health on a vegan diet?
The twisted web of the EAT-Lancet Commission's controversial campaign to eradicate meat consumption
https://www.sott.net/article/404889-The ... onsumption
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

tatpurusa wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 10:16 am
Make no mistake, the "enlightened" viewpoint circulating through media and society at large, proclaiming veganism as the ideal diet for health and the environment, is entirely socially engineered and nothing like the grass roots movement it's presented as. These are corporate interests being served, making the vegan diet a corporate-endorsed one. What better way to signal your fealty to our corporate overlords than to sacrifice your own health on a vegan diet?
The twisted web of the EAT-Lancet Commission's controversial campaign to eradicate meat consumption
https://www.sott.net/article/404889-The ... onsumption
Although your interest in this thread is admirable I would like to give you an informal warning against spamming this thread. Either answer to people or make a bigger post.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
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seeker242
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by seeker242 »

tatpurusa wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 7:00 am Who is Michael Greger
A person who quotes actual peer reviewed scientific studies, rather than internet blogs, pop magazines and political conspiracy websites, none of which are good sources of information.
tatpurusa wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 9:59 am Plant-Based Diets, Micronutrients and Mental Health
https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/micronutr ... al-health/
All of these micro-nutrients can be obtained on a vegan diet.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
DharmaChakra
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by DharmaChakra »

Many of the original vegetarian and vegan diets in Asia were also helped with sadhanas to raise the pranic lifeforce. When the pranic energetic force is raised one can live on very small amounts of foods and not have any loss of energy.

If people who had former meat diet then try to change rapidly it may have some early bad effects on health, but on if they are buddhist can overcome this by raising the pranic energy by practice. Fats are addictive, so the body will crave initially, but this can be overcome with practice.

I know many vegans vegetarians that were former meat eaters, I was myself about 30 years ago and have enjoyed great health and sustained good practice, by actually putting these things as a whole into practice. If one energy level is low vibration it maybe hard to give up any form of craving for the flesh, this does not mean there is a problem with the yogic ways, some want to make excuses that in Asia some ate meat, usually this was in severe conditions and environments where food was hard to come by and would at least limit the amount they took.

Do some detox, fasting is good, half a day a week is good, clean the system, retrain the body, it may take some practice, but if one has compassion its worth it, killing animals for food in this day and age is not neccessary, people are obsessed with the body, practice take you out of the bodily concept and into more free states of being, not depending on phenomenon or using phenomenon is the most limited ways. This is real liberation, not being a slave to desires and demands of the Body and mind.

There are still many yogis in India that eat almost nothing, and have great energy, some can be enlightened and eat also, it becomes a choice, often times to set a standard.

Be kind to animals, they dont like being killed, they feel fear.

:namaste:
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