Obsessive Thoughts

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Jesse
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Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by Jesse »

The main principle here is not to fight them, but you cant ignore them either, so you have to find a way to react to them that doesnt create a block against them, but lets them flow through.
Yeah, this is pretty much it. This is why mindfulness meditation works very well, the only problem is it requires daily practice and the effects only last as long as you practice. (As long as you are actively meditating.)

So, you definitely need some kind of solution for outside of meditation. I still struggle daily with my ocd, but some of the previous methods I've listed work well. Sort of just accepting the pain/thoughts and directing lovingkindness towards them. When the thoughts come up, there is also a way to neither reject them, nor engage with them, you just relax and realize the nature of the thoughts. (repetative, negative energetic movement). The energy only effects you if you engage with them(By either clinging or being averse to them.) I'm sure you know the feeling well of being affected by this energy. (Obsessive thought -> Pain -> Reject thought /Or/ Attempt to reason the thoughts away -> Repeat)

Chanting mantras definitely has a powerful relaxing effect, like you said it creates a vibration in your body(From the sound.) which is relaxing in itself. If it has some purifying effect beyond that, awesome.

I'm happy your actively managing your illness rather than just taking the passenger seat to a bunch of ignorant/arrogant doctors. I've been there also, and had not much help. It's a life-long illness that requires enourmous investiments of time/energy to manage. I wish you well and hope you find a solution that works for you.

:anjali:
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau
SeeLion
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 8:09 am

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by SeeLion »

Don't spoil the obsessions.

They are just thoughts like any other thoughts, they are not special in any way, they don't deserve special care, attention, effort directed towards them.
This is why mindfulness meditation works very well, the only problem is it requires daily practice and the effects only last as long as you practice. (As long as you are actively meditating.)

So, you definitely need some kind of solution for outside of meditation.
This doesn't seem to be the case.

The goal is to be actively meditating through the whole day. I don't do that, because I'm lazy, but that can't be blamed on the method of meditation.
Jesse
Posts: 1764
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by Jesse »

SeeLion wrote:Don't spoil the obsessions.

They are just thoughts like any other thoughts, they are not special in any way, they don't deserve special care, attention, effort directed towards them.
This is why mindfulness meditation works very well, the only problem is it requires daily practice and the effects only last as long as you practice. (As long as you are actively meditating.)

So, you definitely need some kind of solution for outside of meditation.
This doesn't seem to be the case.

The goal is to be actively meditating through the whole day. I don't do that, because I'm lazy, but that can't be blamed on the method of meditation.
This is wrong, even meditating intensely for 2 hours is mentally exhausting. I'm not saying it's impossible to meditate for the entire day, but it certaintly isn't common/suggested etc. Unless your talking about simple mindfulness, eg. being mindful of thoughts/emotions/etc, but that is much less intense than a formal meditation session.

And no, obsession's are not just like any other thoughts. Thoughts are a by-product of obessessions. Obessessions are like monkey mind on steroids, the energy that propels you from one thought to the next is much more intense and each thought creates multitudes of pain/anxiety responses.
they are not special in any way, they don't deserve special care, attention, effort directed towards them.
This is wrong again, both for obsessions and general thoughts, learning to let go is a process of directed intention; mindlessness , and lack of attention is what let's the monkey mind roam free completely unchecked. It's counter-intuitive because yes these thing's need to be left alone, but leaving them alone actually takes effort/wisdom/awareness of the problem.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau
Punya
Posts: 1303
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by Punya »

Jesse said:
When the thoughts come up, there is also a way to neither reject them, nor engage with them, you just relax and realize the nature of the thoughts. (repetative, negative energetic movement). The energy only effects you if you engage with them(By either clinging or being averse to them.) I'm sure you know the feeling well of being affected by this energy. (Obsessive thought -> Pain -> Reject thought /Or/ Attempt to reason the thoughts away -> Repeat)
This seems like a good description of the standard buddhist approach to thoughts Jesse and your experience with focussing on the heart centre is interesting.

Have you had any experience with the meditations suggested in Mingyur Rinpoche's book 'Joyful Wisdom' and, if so, did you find them helpful? Since MR suffered from anxiety attacks as a child (I understand OCD is classified by western psychology as a type of anxiety disorder) it seems reasonable to expect he'd have some helpful insights for OCD although he asserts that the same methods can be used with any emotional or mental state (which is why I'm planning to try them out).

Other than this, diet and naturopathic and homeopathic remedies, complementary to your currents meds, are also worth exploring.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche
gloriasteinem
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by gloriasteinem »

Jesse wrote:
Loren wrote:Just consult you doctor before doing things.

SSRI Withdrawal Syndrome, neuropathy, the difficulties of the benzodiazepines, underlying conditions, etc. I know a lot of people want to try to do things holistically but there does need to be some common sense involved.
:roll:

I've yet to meet a doctor who can even help with my problems. I've long passed the phase where I view doctors as superior, more intelligent or infallible like they so enjoy being seen. Doctor's are clumsy, egotistical, and in most cases incapable in-so-far as mental illness goes.. Also I'd rather not debate this, This thread is about holistic, Buddhist or other methods for dealing with anxiety and ocd.

So let's please stay on topic.
Hi, Jesse. I read you and I know how you feel. I don't like doctors either and I don't trust them, I have pretty good reasons they do not care often about the patient but only wants to keep authoritative status on his/her back and use patients as power/wealth vehicle. Of course they help sometimes, especially traumatologists, but lately when I was buying painkillers the pharmacist told me I might need a prescription next time in other words to see a doctor! I was pissed off, I am tired of talking to doctors, they don't know how organism functions or misfunctions, they don't know the soul, they have some pharmaceutic companies supporting their ego as you say but the doctors are not those who make the pills, instead they often prescribe just... something. I can prescribe myself something too.I'm not sure they aim at making patient healthy at all because if you are well, you won't pay. That's why they like lifelong diseases and tend to expect them to be like chronical diseases or psychiatric conditions they like to call lifelong. It is the last thing they want is to give hope or cure. Its not that lifelong conditions don't exist but they do only if. you don't have a solution. I think when it is not cancer or degenerative disease but something in your mind you can always solve it within days. If you want to. Being angry, or depressed or with obsessive thought is just something on the very moment, something you have to change. I have complained here for being angry. I don't feel angry anymore, I really rarely do, quite normal. Although I feel myself more introvert and depressive than my usual, still to me its a condition, it can change. It's something you have to figure out for yourself why,when it happens, you might expect a therapist to do it for you, but mostly they are not so smart, have bias, wants to have laughs about you or simply wants your money for nothing in return, and this is even when they are not malicious. And ego maniacs can be malicious too. I've been in a dating sites lately, doctors were the most annoying. They will put even pictures of themselves in the surgery room, how awful is that? You see lights and masks but you know down there it is blood and patient is so sick he needs parts of him being cut.

I don't know, to me obsessive thoughts appear when your mind is not productive, if you don't do many things like physical or mental work to keep you busy the mind would still produce thoughts on itself, that's how the mind is. Meditation gives you calmness but it is supposed to give you too the energy prana to make work after, even monks do a lot of work.

I hope you find your own good solutions and be healthy and happy. I just want to say comparing to those who suffer worse is not a very Buddhist thing to do, they need help, not being compared to, for me real happiness does not come from comparing to those in worse life conditions but in looking at those who cured themselves and managed to succeed, that's true hope.
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Jesse
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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by Jesse »

gloriasteinem wrote: Hi, Jesse. I read you and I know how you feel. I don't like doctors either and I don't trust them, I have pretty good reasons they do not care often about the patient but only wants to keep authoritative status on his/her back and use patients as power/wealth vehicle. Of course they help sometimes, especially traumatologists, but lately when I was buying painkillers the pharmacist told me I might need a prescription next time in other words to see a doctor! I was pissed off, I am tired of talking to doctors, they don't know how organism functions or misfunctions, they don't know the soul, they have some pharmaceutic companies supporting their ego as you say but the doctors are not those who make the pills, instead they often prescribe just... something. I can prescribe myself something too.I'm not sure they aim at making patient healthy at all because if you are well, you won't pay. That's why they like lifelong diseases and tend to expect them to be like chronical diseases or psychiatric conditions they like to call lifelong. It is the last thing they want is to give hope or cure. Its not that lifelong conditions don't exist but they do only if. you don't have a solution. I think when it is not cancer or degenerative disease but something in your mind you can always solve it within days. If you want to. Being angry, or depressed or with obsessive thought is just something on the very moment, something you have to change. I have complained here for being angry. I don't feel angry anymore, I really rarely do, quite normal. Although I feel myself more introvert and depressive than my usual, still to me its a condition, it can change. It's something you have to figure out for yourself why,when it happens, you might expect a therapist to do it for you, but mostly they are not so smart, have bias, wants to have laughs about you or simply wants your money for nothing in return, and this is even when they are not malicious. And ego maniacs can be malicious too. I've been in a dating sites lately, doctors were the most annoying. They will put even pictures of themselves in the surgery room, how awful is that? You see lights and masks but you know down there it is blood and patient is so sick he needs parts of him being cut.

I don't know, to me obsessive thoughts appear when your mind is not productive, if you don't do many things like physical or mental work to keep you busy the mind would still produce thoughts on itself, that's how the mind is. Meditation gives you calmness but it is supposed to give you too the energy prana to make work after, even monks do a lot of work.

I hope you find your own good solutions and be healthy and happy. I just want to say comparing to those who suffer worse is not a very Buddhist thing to do, they need help, not being compared to, for me real happiness does not come from comparing to those in worse life conditions but in looking at those who cured themselves and managed to succeed, that's true hope.
I've recently actually had two pretty good doctors, they obviously have their faults but they definitely took their time, trying to find a combination of medication that work for me. Helped me to improve my circumstances quite a bit. I will admit it's tough to find doctors like these, but I guess they are out there. The problem is that doctors suffer from all the same problems we do, but they are supposed to be seen as infalliable, authoriative, etc. Even when doctors have good intentions they are limited by the times and their own faults, people are really good at repairing/fixing physical things that follow very prescribed/systematic rules etc. Bodies are much easier to fix than minds.

The problem in mental health is a number of things, misunderstanding of symptom/causes, a totally physicalist approach to something mainly non-physical(diseases of the mind), lack of funding for people who can't afford help, misunderstanding what a doctors role is in mental health ( from both patients and doctors ), doctors should be there to support/help/assist, but the main work has to be done by the patient, and until people realize this mental health will continue going nowhere.

A doctor can't reach into your mind and fix the problem, and medication is a stop-gap measure, something to assist/help with symptoms while the patient manages their disease.

Ironically when I was severely addicted to drugs, I hated doctors who wouldn't prescribe them to me (I knew in my mind I needed them.), but the best doctors are those who are hesitant or sometimes unwilling to medicate just to make you happy. It at least suggests they are more concerned with your health and life than they are about how they feel, or how you view them. This is why doctors are needed to prescribe medications, because it's way too easy to convince yourself of something that isn't true. A doctor is supposed to be an impartial third party who prescribes based on need/harm reduction.

At some point we just have to accept we don't always have a solution to problems, mental health is currently one of those.. our understanding of the mind is still way too infantile. Those will severe mental illness do indeed need to accept it as a life-long condition, and manage it as such. Acceptance is better than bitterness/angryness about it, I agree.

Yes, exercising the body most definitely has benefits for the mind, if you don't expend the bodies energy it causes the mind to take it on in some form, self-destructive or not..

Lol of course doctors are going to make it known they are doctors on a dating website, it's a status thing. More attractive mates looking for money. :tongue:
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau
gloriasteinem
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by gloriasteinem »

Jesse wrote:
gloriasteinem wrote: Hi, Jesse. I read you and I know how you feel. I don't like doctors either and I don't trust them, I have pretty good reasons they do not care often about the patient but only wants to keep authoritative status on his/her back and use patients as power/wealth vehicle. Of course they help sometimes, especially traumatologists, but lately when I was buying painkillers the pharmacist told me I might need a prescription next time in other words to see a doctor! I was pissed off, I am tired of talking to doctors, they don't know how organism functions or misfunctions, they don't know the soul, they have some pharmaceutic companies supporting their ego as you say but the doctors are not those who make the pills, instead they often prescribe just... something. I can prescribe myself something too.I'm not sure they aim at making patient healthy at all because if you are well, you won't pay. That's why they like lifelong diseases and tend to expect them to be like chronical diseases or psychiatric conditions they like to call lifelong. It is the last thing they want is to give hope or cure. Its not that lifelong conditions don't exist but they do only if. you don't have a solution. I think when it is not cancer or degenerative disease but something in your mind you can always solve it within days. If you want to. Being angry, or depressed or with obsessive thought is just something on the very moment, something you have to change. I have complained here for being angry. I don't feel angry anymore, I really rarely do, quite normal. Although I feel myself more introvert and depressive than my usual, still to me its a condition, it can change. It's something you have to figure out for yourself why,when it happens, you might expect a therapist to do it for you, but mostly they are not so smart, have bias, wants to have laughs about you or simply wants your money for nothing in return, and this is even when they are not malicious. And ego maniacs can be malicious too. I've been in a dating sites lately, doctors were the most annoying. They will put even pictures of themselves in the surgery room, how awful is that? You see lights and masks but you know down there it is blood and patient is so sick he needs parts of him being cut.

I don't know, to me obsessive thoughts appear when your mind is not productive, if you don't do many things like physical or mental work to keep you busy the mind would still produce thoughts on itself, that's how the mind is. Meditation gives you calmness but it is supposed to give you too the energy prana to make work after, even monks do a lot of work.

I hope you find your own good solutions and be healthy and happy. I just want to say comparing to those who suffer worse is not a very Buddhist thing to do, they need help, not being compared to, for me real happiness does not come from comparing to those in worse life conditions but in looking at those who cured themselves and managed to succeed, that's true hope.
I've recently actually had two pretty good doctors, they obviously have their faults but they definitely took their time, trying to find a combination of medication that work for me. Helped me to improve my circumstances quite a bit. I will admit it's tough to find doctors like these, but I guess they are out there. The problem is that doctors suffer from all the same problems we do, but they are supposed to be seen as infalliable, authoriative, etc. Even when doctors have good intentions they are limited by the times and their own faults, people are really good at repairing/fixing physical things that follow very prescribed/systematic rules etc. Bodies are much easier to fix than minds.

The problem in mental health is a number of things, misunderstanding of symptom/causes, a totally physicalist approach to something mainly non-physical(diseases of the mind), lack of funding for people who can't afford help, misunderstanding what a doctors role is in mental health ( from both patients and doctors ), doctors should be there to support/help/assist, but the main work has to be done by the patient, and until people realize this mental health will continue going nowhere.

A doctor can't reach into your mind and fix the problem, and medication is a stop-gap measure, something to assist/help with symptoms while the patient manages their disease.

Ironically when I was severely addicted to drugs, I hated doctors who wouldn't prescribe them to me (I knew in my mind I needed them.), but the best doctors are those who are hesitant or sometimes unwilling to medicate just to make you happy. It at least suggests they are more concerned with your health and life than they are about how they feel, or how you view them. This is why doctors are needed to prescribe medications, because it's way too easy to convince yourself of something that isn't true. A doctor is supposed to be an impartial third party who prescribes based on need/harm reduction.

At some point we just have to accept we don't always have a solution to problems, mental health is currently one of those.. our understanding of the mind is still way too infantile. Those will severe mental illness do indeed need to accept it as a life-long condition, and manage it as such. Acceptance is better than bitterness/angryness about it, I agree.

Yes, exercising the body most definitely has benefits for the mind, if you don't expend the bodies energy it causes the mind to take it on in some form, self-destructive or not..

Lol of course doctors are going to make it known they are doctors on a dating website, it's a status thing. More attractive mates looking for money. :tongue:
I'm sorry, I don't agree with you. There are people who solve their mind or emotional states without medication, those who are prescribed one but find a solution and stop medication and those like you who prefer to be medicated mostly. Just because you don't want to find a real solution to your problem does not mean solutions don't exist at all, in fact members of DW gave you plenty of suggestions how to cope based on personal experience. I know there are a lot of people who prefer to be medicated and in fact prefer to feel themselves sick or regarded as sick, to me that's really part of the sickness, this desire to not be entirely healthy or not put every effort to be healthy instead preference of the sick but medically maintained situation. Also I don't think that the mind is cut from the body so in fact there is too less attention to the physical, like I read this topic about your rib being broken, if you were really thinking holistically as you once said you should have seen the connection of your thoughts, various meds you take and bone structure complications.
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Jesse
Posts: 1764
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by Jesse »

gloriasteinem wrote:
Jesse wrote:
gloriasteinem wrote: Hi, Jesse. I read you and I know how you feel. I don't like doctors either and I don't trust them, I have pretty good reasons they do not care often about the patient but only wants to keep authoritative status on his/her back and use patients as power/wealth vehicle. Of course they help sometimes, especially traumatologists, but lately when I was buying painkillers the pharmacist told me I might need a prescription next time in other words to see a doctor! I was pissed off, I am tired of talking to doctors, they don't know how organism functions or misfunctions, they don't know the soul, they have some pharmaceutic companies supporting their ego as you say but the doctors are not those who make the pills, instead they often prescribe just... something. I can prescribe myself something too.I'm not sure they aim at making patient healthy at all because if you are well, you won't pay. That's why they like lifelong diseases and tend to expect them to be like chronical diseases or psychiatric conditions they like to call lifelong. It is the last thing they want is to give hope or cure. Its not that lifelong conditions don't exist but they do only if. you don't have a solution. I think when it is not cancer or degenerative disease but something in your mind you can always solve it within days. If you want to. Being angry, or depressed or with obsessive thought is just something on the very moment, something you have to change. I have complained here for being angry. I don't feel angry anymore, I really rarely do, quite normal. Although I feel myself more introvert and depressive than my usual, still to me its a condition, it can change. It's something you have to figure out for yourself why,when it happens, you might expect a therapist to do it for you, but mostly they are not so smart, have bias, wants to have laughs about you or simply wants your money for nothing in return, and this is even when they are not malicious. And ego maniacs can be malicious too. I've been in a dating sites lately, doctors were the most annoying. They will put even pictures of themselves in the surgery room, how awful is that? You see lights and masks but you know down there it is blood and patient is so sick he needs parts of him being cut.

I don't know, to me obsessive thoughts appear when your mind is not productive, if you don't do many things like physical or mental work to keep you busy the mind would still produce thoughts on itself, that's how the mind is. Meditation gives you calmness but it is supposed to give you too the energy prana to make work after, even monks do a lot of work.

I hope you find your own good solutions and be healthy and happy. I just want to say comparing to those who suffer worse is not a very Buddhist thing to do, they need help, not being compared to, for me real happiness does not come from comparing to those in worse life conditions but in looking at those who cured themselves and managed to succeed, that's true hope.
I've recently actually had two pretty good doctors, they obviously have their faults but they definitely took their time, trying to find a combination of medication that work for me. Helped me to improve my circumstances quite a bit. I will admit it's tough to find doctors like these, but I guess they are out there. The problem is that doctors suffer from all the same problems we do, but they are supposed to be seen as infalliable, authoriative, etc. Even when doctors have good intentions they are limited by the times and their own faults, people are really good at repairing/fixing physical things that follow very prescribed/systematic rules etc. Bodies are much easier to fix than minds.

The problem in mental health is a number of things, misunderstanding of symptom/causes, a totally physicalist approach to something mainly non-physical(diseases of the mind), lack of funding for people who can't afford help, misunderstanding what a doctors role is in mental health ( from both patients and doctors ), doctors should be there to support/help/assist, but the main work has to be done by the patient, and until people realize this mental health will continue going nowhere.

A doctor can't reach into your mind and fix the problem, and medication is a stop-gap measure, something to assist/help with symptoms while the patient manages their disease.

Ironically when I was severely addicted to drugs, I hated doctors who wouldn't prescribe them to me (I knew in my mind I needed them.), but the best doctors are those who are hesitant or sometimes unwilling to medicate just to make you happy. It at least suggests they are more concerned with your health and life than they are about how they feel, or how you view them. This is why doctors are needed to prescribe medications, because it's way too easy to convince yourself of something that isn't true. A doctor is supposed to be an impartial third party who prescribes based on need/harm reduction.

At some point we just have to accept we don't always have a solution to problems, mental health is currently one of those.. our understanding of the mind is still way too infantile. Those will severe mental illness do indeed need to accept it as a life-long condition, and manage it as such. Acceptance is better than bitterness/angryness about it, I agree.

Yes, exercising the body most definitely has benefits for the mind, if you don't expend the bodies energy it causes the mind to take it on in some form, self-destructive or not..

Lol of course doctors are going to make it known they are doctors on a dating website, it's a status thing. More attractive mates looking for money. :tongue:
I'm sorry, I don't agree with you. There are people who solve their mind or emotional states without medication, those who are prescribed one but find a solution and stop medication and those like you who prefer to be medicated mostly. Just because you don't want to find a real solution to your problem does not mean solutions don't exist at all, in fact members of DW gave you plenty of suggestions how to cope based on personal experience. I know there are a lot of people who prefer to be medicated and in fact prefer to feel themselves sick or regarded as sick, to me that's really part of the sickness, this desire to not be entirely healthy or not put every effort to be healthy instead preference of the sick but medically maintained situation. Also I don't think that the mind is cut from the body so in fact there is too less attention to the physical, like I read this topic about your rib being broken, if you were really thinking holistically as you once said you should have seen the connection of your thoughts, various meds you take and bone structure complications.
Those like me who prefer to be medicated? Do not act like you know anything about me, or my problems. I have found a solution, it's called managing my illness. OCD has no cure, neither does schitzophrenia, bipolar disorder, or many other mental illnesses. Medication is a necessary evil, but if you believe you've found a solution to all these illnesses let's hear it!

You really think people choose to be sick? Are you stupid? Real mental illness is devastating, it's one of the most painful things you can go through. What in the hell are you even talking about? My desire to not be healthy? You're a complete nut. If you can't comprehend a conversation, don't take part in it.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau
SeeLion
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 8:09 am

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by SeeLion »

This is wrong, even meditating intensely for 2 hours is mentally exhausting. I'm not saying it's impossible to meditate for the entire day, but it certaintly isn't common/suggested etc. Unless your talking about simple mindfulness, eg. being mindful of thoughts/emotions/etc, but that is much less intense than a formal meditation session.
It was a great revelation for me when a teacher said that this is what you're supposed to do with meditation: use the peace and clarity it produces to power up the vehicle of the Noble Eightfold Path through the daily life.

And I said revelation, because it seems to be helpful for my Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde problem: meditation was so peaceful and life was such a hell.

I'm talking about mindfulness, but there is nothing simple about that, it's a very powerful practice. As for intensity, it can be as powerful and intense as we ... are able to. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it sucks, that's what practice is for.

Meditation is what powers the mindfulness. And once it does, you can see how the mind truly works. And this truth gives you freedom.
And no, obsession's are not just like any other thoughts.
Well, an obsession is a thought, that's exactly what it means. But a thought is not necessarily an obsession.

It only becomes a steroid monkey, if you feed the monster. Actually, many people may have same exact thought, without it being an obsession.

Obsessions are powered, fed by what I called "spoiling them", giving them attention, importance, care, etc.

Mindfulness can show you HOW you are feeding the monster and once you see that truth, the monster turns into a cuddly puppy.
This is wrong again, both for obsessions and general thoughts, learning to let go is a process of directed intention; mindlessness , and lack of attention is what let's the monkey mind roam free completely unchecked.
Directing anything at an obsession can be dangerous, because the obsession may find a way to feed off it.
It's counter-intuitive because yes these thing's need to be left alone, but leaving them alone actually takes effort/wisdom/awareness of the problem.
Yes, mindfulness and wisdom, as for effort ... the right effort isn't always an effort.
Those like me who prefer to be medicated? Do not act like you know anything about me, or my problems. I have found a solution, it's called managing my illness. OCD has no cure, neither does schitzophrenia, bipolar disorder, or many other mental illnesses.
There are people who solve their mind or emotional states without medication, those who are prescribed one but find a solution and stop medication and those like you who prefer to be medicated mostly. Just because you don't want to find a real solution to your problem does not mean solutions don't exist at all, in fact members of DW gave you plenty of suggestions how to cope based on personal experience.
Maybe let's try to take things easy. Acknowledge that anything posted on a forum is merely an opinion, and we don't want to coerce people into doing things or believing things. No matter how much force is put into the words or attachment is put our beliefs, any post is nothing but a personal opinion.

Also acknowledge that it's not realistic to give a solution to somebody over the internet. Even if we were professionally qualified to do so, which we are not.

Even such people do exist who are always against any kind of medication, no matter the circumstances. Even if we feel that is not wise, it's not like we can or should try force their belief out of them, all we can do is expressing disagreement.

That being said, since you brought up schizophrenia, this is a video I find interesting, without any implication that anybody who might suffer from a similar condition should use the information for self-treatment. But there is a lot of insight into the suffering caused by the stigmatization and self-stigmatization that comes from slapping a diagnostic onto ourselves. And not only for mental illnesses, it's the same for cancer or old age, or being jobless, or overweight, etc.

https://www.ted.com/talks/eleanor_longd ... anguage=sv
Jesse
Posts: 1764
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by Jesse »

SeeLion wrote:
This is wrong, even meditating intensely for 2 hours is mentally exhausting. I'm not saying it's impossible to meditate for the entire day, but it certaintly isn't common/suggested etc. Unless your talking about simple mindfulness, eg. being mindful of thoughts/emotions/etc, but that is much less intense than a formal meditation session.
It was a great revelation for me when a teacher said that this is what you're supposed to do with meditation: use the peace and clarity it produces to power up the vehicle of the Noble Eightfold Path through the daily life.

And I said revelation, because it seems to be helpful for my Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde problem: meditation was so peaceful and life was such a hell.

I'm talking about mindfulness, but there is nothing simple about that, it's a very powerful practice. As for intensity, it can be as powerful and intense as we ... are able to. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it sucks, that's what practice is for.

Meditation is what powers the mindfulness. And once it does, you can see how the mind truly works. And this truth gives you freedom.
And no, obsession's are not just like any other thoughts.
Well, an obsession is a thought, that's exactly what it means. But a thought is not necessarily an obsession.

It only becomes a steroid monkey, if you feed the monster. Actually, many people may have same exact thought, without it being an obsession.

Obsessions are powered, fed by what I called "spoiling them", giving them attention, importance, care, etc.

Mindfulness can show you HOW you are feeding the monster and once you see that truth, the monster turns into a cuddly puppy.
This is wrong again, both for obsessions and general thoughts, learning to let go is a process of directed intention; mindlessness , and lack of attention is what let's the monkey mind roam free completely unchecked.
Directing anything at an obsession can be dangerous, because the obsession may find a way to feed off it.
It's counter-intuitive because yes these thing's need to be left alone, but leaving them alone actually takes effort/wisdom/awareness of the problem.
Yes, mindfulness and wisdom, as for effort ... the right effort isn't always an effort.
Those like me who prefer to be medicated? Do not act like you know anything about me, or my problems. I have found a solution, it's called managing my illness. OCD has no cure, neither does schitzophrenia, bipolar disorder, or many other mental illnesses.
There are people who solve their mind or emotional states without medication, those who are prescribed one but find a solution and stop medication and those like you who prefer to be medicated mostly. Just because you don't want to find a real solution to your problem does not mean solutions don't exist at all, in fact members of DW gave you plenty of suggestions how to cope based on personal experience.
Maybe let's try to take things easy. Acknowledge that anything posted on a forum is merely an opinion, and we don't want to coerce people into doing things or believing things. No matter how much force is put into the words or attachment is put our beliefs, any post is nothing but a personal opinion.

Also acknowledge that it's not realistic to give a solution to somebody over the internet. Even if we were professionally qualified to do so, which we are not.

Even such people do exist who are always against any kind of medication, no matter the circumstances. Even if we feel that is not wise, it's not like we can or should try force their belief out of them, all we can do is expressing disagreement.

That being said, since you brought up schizophrenia, this is a video I find interesting, without any implication that anybody who might suffer from a similar condition should use the information for self-treatment. But there is a lot of insight into the suffering caused by the stigmatization and self-stigmatization that comes from slapping a diagnostic onto ourselves. And not only for mental illnesses, it's the same for cancer or old age, or being jobless, or overweight, etc.

https://www.ted.com/talks/eleanor_longd ... anguage=sv
Sorry, but you don't have the slightly idea what you're talking about. If you really think you've got OCD figured out become a doctor. I'm sure the millions and millions of mental health professionals would love to hear your baseless insights. Really though, Come back after you've spent 6-7 years with the disease.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau
SeeLion
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 8:09 am

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by SeeLion »

Sorry, but you don't have the slightly idea what you're talking about.
That's understandable, the first part of my post was a reply to gloriasteinem, would be probably confusing for you to follow the topic of discussion back up the thread. Also, I know that sometimes I put things into writing in a confusing way, that's a flaw I'm aware of, but can't always escape it.

Shortly, it's about integrating meditation practice with the daily life in a way that both support eachother.

If you are at all curious, feel free to ask, I can shortly put together things which are spread over more forum posts.
If you really think you've got OCD figured out become a doctor.
What I have figured out is that meditation is helpful for balancing the mind and many people can benefit from that, including people with OCD.

That is my personal opinion, you are welcome to ignore it :)
Jesse
Posts: 1764
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Post by Jesse »

SeeLion wrote:
Sorry, but you don't have the slightly idea what you're talking about.
That's understandable, the first part of my post was a reply to gloriasteinem, would be probably confusing for you to follow the topic of discussion back up the thread. Also, I know that sometimes I put things into writing in a confusing way, that's a flaw I'm aware of, but can't always escape it.

Shortly, it's about integrating meditation practice with the daily life in a way that both support eachother.

If you are at all curious, feel free to ask, I can shortly put together things which are spread over more forum posts.
If you really think you've got OCD figured out become a doctor.
What I have figured out is that meditation is helpful for balancing the mind and many people can benefit from that, including people with OCD.

That is my personal opinion, you are welcome to ignore it :)
Sorry, I took out my frustrations on both of you yesterday. It was quite a bad day, and I snapped for no real reason.

Anyways, I apologize to both of you.

What I meant was I've been living with OCD for around 8 years now, and I've tried everything from mainstream psycology, to Buddhist practices and medication. Nothing has cured me. I am fully aware of the nature of my disorder, why it happens, what makes it better/worse, and yet that knowledge doesn't help in the least. It's a very energetic disorder, like I tried to explain. If you get caught up in this habitual energy it causes the painful compulsive thought processes, and knowledge that it's happening only helps to lessen it. It doesn't get rid of it. It helps, that's all.

When compulsions start, they have a momentum, once it get's going it's very difficult to stop, you have to stop it before it get's to this point, but it's not always possible.. mindfulness/meditation is what is very helpful for this.

Living with the intense pain / alienation / guilt / shame from OCD is probably the worst part, and medication helps with these things.

I tend to get upset when people talk about different mental illnesses when they have not experienced them. Especially people who like to use phrases like "I'm so OCD", it bugs me. Mental illness isn't a joke, and people misunderstand just how much people suffer from these illnesses. It's something that makes me both extreamly mad, and sad.

Anyway that's all I wanted to say, have a good day.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau
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