Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

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Malcolm
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Malcolm »

Sunrise:

Contrary to your assumptions about yogic diets, you will frequently find in Tibetan yoga manuals recommendations to eat meat and also drink a little alcohol, and other nutritiously-dense foods, because these stimulate metabolism.

The kind of diet recommended in the advice you have posted here makes sense for a very hot climate. It does not make much sense for a very cold one. Context is everything.
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Grigoris
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Grigoris »

Malcolm wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 3:27 pm...
When it comes to Ojas: Is this something that is found in particular food, or is it that particular food assists us in producing ojas (like iron and folic acid is helpful for producing blood)?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Malcolm
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Malcolm »

Grigoris wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 4:12 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 3:27 pm...
When it comes to Ojas: Is this something that is found in particular food, or is it that particular food assists us in producing ojas (like iron and folic acid is helpful for producing blood)?
Ojas is actually not found in food, per se. It is the final product if you will, of the seven-fold process of metabolism described in Ayurveda/TM: nutriment (rasa)-->blood-->flesh-->fat-->bone-->marrow-->seminal precursor. The last tissue, seminal precursor is then divided: the pure part becomes ojas, is concentrated mainly in the heart region, but is evenly spread through the body; the impure part is discarded as reproductive tissue in both men and women (until menopause).

The more nutritionally dense one's food is, the more ojas is available, provided these metabolic pathways are functioning properly. Vegetarians can have an ojas enhancing diet, provided they eat enough foods that are "sweet" in taste and oily in quality. Bitter and astringent foods tend to be poor supporters of an ojas-enhancing diets. Ojas-enhancing diets tend to be anabolic. There are certain instances where one will want to engage in a cleanse, which is basically a kind of catabolic diet, as a preliminary to engaging in rasāyāna, which is the consumption of herbs and foods that anabolic in nature, but which do not have high levels of ama, undigested or improperly digested foods (think arterial plaque). The downside of meat, of course, is that it can result in a lot of ama. This is why, when eating meat, it is better to eat it stewed, rather than frilled or fried.

For vegetarians, a kind of date and milk drink is very good for building ojas in depleted people. This is an excellent recipe: https://kripalu.org/resources/kripalu-r ... -ojas-milk
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Grigoris
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Grigoris »

Malcolm wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 4:31 pmFor vegetarians, a kind of date and milk drink is very good for building ojas in depleted people. This is an excellent recipe: https://kripalu.org/resources/kripalu-r ... -ojas-milk
Thank you. That milk looks really tasty!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Hermetic
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Hermetic »

Sunrise wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 3:07 pm
Hermetic wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 4:15 am I love Yogic Diet. I became a vegetarian about 1-2 weeks ago. 2-3 days ago I learned Yogic Diet from Swami Sivananda's book and started to apply.
I think it's a great way of eating too! I first learned about Yogic diet from a book called "Yoga Mind & Body" by the Sivananda Yoga Vedanta Center. Maybe it's the same Sivananda in your book?
Yeah, Sri Swami Sivananda is great Yogi. We are talking about the same person. Our friends like Malcolm think contrary to this. In addition, modern medical doctors have similar thoughts, but I think the diet that Swami Sivananda conveys has a very different explanation. If he was still alive, we could listen to valuable comments. He was interested not only in the teachings of Indian mysticism, but also in many teachings such as Christianity and Buddhism, and he had research. I think the Sattvic diet is effective for Yogis, but not everyone's sherbet is one. So it may not address everyone. Personally, I saw the benefit and I see it. :smile: :namaste:
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Sunrise
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Sunrise »

Malcolm wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 3:27 pm Sunrise:

Contrary to your assumptions about yogic diets, you will frequently find in Tibetan yoga manuals recommendations to eat meat and also drink a little alcohol, and other nutritiously-dense foods, because these stimulate metabolism.

The kind of diet recommended in the advice you have posted here makes sense for a very hot climate. It does not make much sense for a very cold one. Context is everything.
Thanks for the perspective on Tibetan yoga systems, Malcolm. I've only seen the Indian style yogic diets where lacto-vegetarianism is par for the course. I had heard of Tibetan yogis using a bit of meat in their diets for warmth. It absolutely makes sense that diets would vary by climate and seasonal availability.

By the way, the milk drink recipe you posted looks delicious!
Malcolm
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Malcolm »

Hermetic wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm Our friends like Malcolm think contrary to this.
I am a Doctor of Tibetan Medicine, and have studied Ayurveda extensively in India.

Do you have any idea how many different kinds of meat are described in such classics as the Charaka Samhita, etc.?

In addition to that, I have studied yoga and the Yoga Sutras with Srivatsa Ramaswami, the last remaining living disciple of Krishnamacarya. He made it very clear that in Yoga, the substance of one's diet is really of no importance at all. What is important is not to eat too much, so the body remains light. There is no mention of a "sattvic diet" in the Yoga Sutras. This idea comes from chapter 17 of the Bhagavad Gita (Feuerstein, Shambhala, 2011; pg. 291):
Foods [that] promotes life, [the factor of] lucidity, strength, health, joy, and delight, [and that are] savory, rich-in-oil, firm, and heart [-gladdening]—[these are] dear to the sattva-natured.

Foods [which are] pungent, sour, salty, hot, sharp, harsh, and burning—[these are] desired by the rajas-natured. [They] cause pain, grief, and disease.

And [food] which is spoiled, tasteless, putrid, stale, left-over, and unclean—[this] is food agreeable to the tamas-natured [individual].
You will notice here too an absence of mention of meat. Rather, the text focuses on qualities of food. Meat can be sattvic. It just depends on how it is prepared. Finally, most people cannot live on sattvic foods alone, but need some rajasic foods for various reasons.

Finally, my point is that Tibetan texts on yoga do not recommend that one avoid meat, on the contrary, they recommend that one eats some meat in order to build one's strength and immunity, given how harsh the Tibetan climate is.

Everything is relative, including diet. It is very stupid to base one's diet on religious idealism. You have no idea how many patients I have seen who have ruined their health following unhealthy vegetarian and vegan food regimens.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
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Grigoris
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

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Hermetic wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pmYeah, Sri Swami Sivananda is great Yogi. We are talking about the same person. Our friends like Malcolm think contrary to this. In addition, modern medical doctors have similar thoughts, but I think the diet that Swami Sivananda conveys has a very different explanation. If he was still alive, we could listen to valuable comments. He was interested not only in the teachings of Indian mysticism, but also in many teachings such as Christianity and Buddhism, and he had research. I think the Sattvic diet is effective for Yogis, but not everyone's sherbet is one. So it may not address everyone. Personally, I saw the benefit and I see it. :smile: :namaste:
You've been a vegetarian for two weeks and read one book on Yogic diet and you think you know more than a qualified Doctor of Tibetan Medicine?

Get a grip dude.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Hermetic
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Hermetic »

Malcolm wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:30 pm
Hermetic wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm Our friends like Malcolm think contrary to this.
I am a Doctor of Tibetan Medicine, and have studied Ayurveda extensively in India.

Do you have any idea how many different kinds of meat are described in such classics as the Charaka Samhita, etc.?

In addition to that, I have studied yoga and the Yoga Sutras with Srivatsa Ramaswami, the last remaining living disciple of Krishnamacarya. He made it very clear that in Yoga, the substance of one's diet is really of no importance at all. What is important is not to eat too much, so the body remains light. There is no mention of a "sattvic diet" in the Yoga Sutras. This idea comes from chapter 17 of the Bhagavad Gita (Feuerstein, Shambhala, 2011; pg. 291):
Foods [that] promotes life, [the factor of] lucidity, strength, health, joy, and delight, [and that are] savory, rich-in-oil, firm, and heart [-gladdening]—[these are] dear to the sattva-natured.

Foods [which are] pungent, sour, salty, hot, sharp, harsh, and burning—[these are] desired by the rajas-natured. [They] cause pain, grief, and disease.

And [food] which is spoiled, tasteless, putrid, stale, left-over, and unclean—[this] is food agreeable to the tamas-natured [individual].
You will notice here too an absence of mention of meat. Rather, the text focuses on qualities of food. Meat can be sattvic. It just depends on how it is prepared.

Finally, my point is that Tibetan texts on yoga do not recommend that one avoid meat, on the contrary, they recommend that one eats some meat in order to build one's strength and immunity, given how harsh the Tibetan climate is.

Everything is relative, including diet. It is very stupid to base one's diet on religious idealism. You have no idea how many patients I have seen who have ruined their health following unhealthy vegetarian and vegan food regimens.
My dear friend I am sure of your wisdom and I do not see you wrong. I apologize if I wrote incorrectly. I just wanted to say that it is a good perspective to mention the negative aspects of the Sattvic diet that we apply. Looking at an event from a single perspective is insufficient to find the truth, so the perspective of our friends like you is very useful to us. I dont condemn you, on the contrary, I support you at some point. Thank you for information :)
Grigoris wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:33 pm
Hermetic wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pmYeah, Sri Swami Sivananda is great Yogi. We are talking about the same person. Our friends like Malcolm think contrary to this. In addition, modern medical doctors have similar thoughts, but I think the diet that Swami Sivananda conveys has a very different explanation. If he was still alive, we could listen to valuable comments. He was interested not only in the teachings of Indian mysticism, but also in many teachings such as Christianity and Buddhism, and he had research. I think the Sattvic diet is effective for Yogis, but not everyone's sherbet is one. So it may not address everyone. Personally, I saw the benefit and I see it. :smile: :namaste:
You've been a vegetarian for two weeks and read one book on Yogic diet and you think you know more than a qualified Doctor of Tibetan Medicine?

Get a grip dude.
I didnt say that. :)
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Norwegian »

Grigoris wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:33 pm
Hermetic wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pmYeah, Sri Swami Sivananda is great Yogi. We are talking about the same person. Our friends like Malcolm think contrary to this. In addition, modern medical doctors have similar thoughts, but I think the diet that Swami Sivananda conveys has a very different explanation. If he was still alive, we could listen to valuable comments. He was interested not only in the teachings of Indian mysticism, but also in many teachings such as Christianity and Buddhism, and he had research. I think the Sattvic diet is effective for Yogis, but not everyone's sherbet is one. So it may not address everyone. Personally, I saw the benefit and I see it. :smile: :namaste:
You've been a vegetarian for two weeks and read one book on Yogic diet and you think you know more than a qualified Doctor of Tibetan Medicine?

Get a grip dude.
It is indeed comical.
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The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
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Sunrise
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Sunrise »

Malcolm wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:30 pm
Everything is relative, including diet. It is very stupid to base one's diet on religious idealism. You have no idea how many patients I have seen who have ruined their health following unhealthy vegetarian and vegan food regimens.
What goes wrong for them? Do they become too thin or too cold, or their digestive fire becomes too weak?
Sādhaka
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Sādhaka »

It seems the conclusion is that milk that has been pasteurized then refrigerated, or even drunken cold period, becomes tamasic:

https://yogarasayana.com/articles/milk- ... nvenience/

In Ayurveda, milk is almost never drunk cold, as it is harder to
digest and thus turns the milk from sattvic to tamasic in nature.

Raw milk never refrigerated is considered very sattvic; but what about raw milk that has been refrigerated?

I found this from another blog:

https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/tag/ghee/

“Raw milk that is cold increases moisture inside the channels (srotas) and increases kapha (earth and water elements) as well as increases ama (undigested toxic morbid metabolic waste) in the system.”

The answer to this seems to be that you can flash boil raw milk (again, already pasteurized then refrigerated milk can only remain tamasic) to make it sattvic; but I’ve also read that boiling even raw milk kills off the lactic acid bacilli which allow for the digestion of milk.

The question is then, if you buy raw milk from the store that has been refrigerated, can you just leave it out overnight to warm it to room temperature, and it will then be sattvic, even though it has been refrigerated?

The safety concerns some may have aside, because anecdotally, I’ve done this many many times, and never had any problems; and have even clabbered raw milk by letting it sit out for a few days to form curd. Of course Ayurveda seems to count all fermented foods as non-sattvic. However leaving raw milk out overnight won’t ferment it very much if at all, because you can still taste the lactose sugars which means that the bacterias haven’t consumed them yet.
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Sādhaka »

“I’ve also read that boiling even raw milk kills off the lactic acid bacilli which allow for the digestion of milk.”

That wasn’t worded very well.

I meant that the lactic acid bacilli is what helps to digest milk, whereas boiling and killing the lactic acid bacilli may decrease one’s ability to digest the milk.

Then again anecdotally, it seems that boiling raw milk does make it easier to digest overall in my experience. But maybe there are other beneficial enzymes etc. in raw milk that are lost when you boil it....
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by Ayu »

Sādhaka wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:08 pm “I’ve also read that boiling even raw milk kills off the lactic acid bacilli which allow for the digestion of milk.”

That wasn’t worded very well.

I meant that the lactic acid bacilli is what helps to digest milk, whereas boiling and killing the lactic acid bacilli may decrease one’s ability to digest the milk.

Then again anecdotally, it seems that boiling raw milk does make it easier to digest overall in my experience. But maybe there are other beneficial enzymes etc. in raw milk that are lost when you boil it....
In India, people have to boil milk. Otherwise they risk to become severly sick. They even boil it for hours with certain spices - then it becomes a very delicious creme. :smile: With a normal stomac it is wonderfully digestable.

I was on sattvic diet for 13 years. It wasn't really my thing at the end.
For the benefit and ease of all sentient beings. :heart:
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by fckw »

Hermetic wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm Yeah, Sri Swami Sivananda is great Yogi. We are talking about the same person. Our friends like Malcolm think contrary to this. In addition, modern medical doctors have similar thoughts, but I think the diet that Swami Sivananda conveys has a very different explanation. If he was still alive, we could listen to valuable comments. He was interested not only in the teachings of Indian mysticism, but also in many teachings such as Christianity and Buddhism, and he had research. I think the Sattvic diet is effective for Yogis, but not everyone's sherbet is one. So it may not address everyone. Personally, I saw the benefit and I see it. :smile: :namaste:
Swami Sivananda did not follow a sattvic diet, at least not strictly. In fact, he used to secretly eat spicy (i.e. non-sattvic) pickles behind closed doors when nobody was watching.
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Re: Sattvic/Yogic Diet Challenge

Post by fckw »

Sunrise wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:33 pmI'm being silly, but actually it's helpful to observe how you feel after eating various foods. Do you feel light and energetic, or heavy and dull? Did the food digest well or not so much? Did it affect your sleep, and so on.
What's wrong with feeling heavy and dull? And why should feeling light and energetic be preferable? :thinking:
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