Vipassanā in Zen Buddhism

Post Reply
User avatar
Ivan A
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:04 am

Vipassanā in Zen Buddhism

Post by Ivan A »

Is there a practice of analytical meditation in Zen Buddhism? Do they practice vipassanā?
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 8883
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Vipassanā in Zen Buddhism

Post by Astus »

Ivan A wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:48 amIs there a practice of analytical meditation in Zen Buddhism? Do they practice vipassanā?
The methods of calming (zhi 止) and insight (guan 観) are not unknown, but mainly from sutras like Concentration of Sitting Meditation, treatises like The Awakening of Faith, and the manuals of the Tiantai and the Huayan schools. But as the Platform Sutra (ch 4, BDK ed, p 41-42) puts it:

'Good friends, our teaching takes meditation (ding 定 - concentration) and wisdom (hui 慧) as its fundamental. Everyone, do not say in your delusion that meditation and wisdom are different.
Meditation and wisdom are of one essence, not different. Meditation is the essence of wisdom, and wisdom is the function of meditation. At times
of wisdom, meditation exists in that wisdom; at times of meditation, wisdom exists in that meditation. If you understand this doctrine, this is the equivalent study of meditation and wisdom. All you who study the Way, do not say that they are different, with meditation prior to and generating wisdom or with wisdom prior to and generating meditation. If your view of them is like this, then the Dharma would have two characteristics. This would be to say something good with your mouth but to have that which is not good in your minds. It is to make meditation and wisdom falsely existent to consider them as not equivalent.'


As for Dogen, in Bendowa he is asked about Tendai practice (SBGZ, BDK ed, vol 1, p 16):

[Someone] asks, “Is there nothing to prevent a person who practices this zazen from also performing mantra (shingon 眞言) and quiet-reflection (shikan 止觀) practices?”
I say: When I was in China, I heard the true essence of the teachings from a true master; he said that he had never heard that any of the patriarchs who received the authentic transmission of the Buddha-seal ever performed such practices additionally, in the Western Heavens or in the Eastern Lands, in the past or in the present. Certainly, unless we devote ourselves to one thing, we will not attain complete wisdom.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
SilenceMonkey
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Vipassanā in Zen Buddhism

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Zen's conception of shamatha and vipassana (the zhi and guan mentioned above) are somewhat different than in Tibetan Buddhism and Theravada. Silent Illumination (the chinese zazen) is the perfect union of shamatha and vipassana. They are practiced as one.

As for analytical meditation... perhaps gong'an (koan) or huatou (wato).
reiun
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:08 pm
Location: Florida USA

Re: Vipassanā in Zen Buddhism

Post by reiun »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:56 pm As for analytical meditation... perhaps gong'an (koan) or huatou (wato).
Per Philip Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen: "Koans cannot be solved by recourse to logical reasoning, but only by awakening a deeper level of the mind beyond discursive intellect."
SilenceMonkey
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Vipassanā in Zen Buddhism

Post by SilenceMonkey »

reiun wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:19 pm
SilenceMonkey wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:56 pm As for analytical meditation... perhaps gong'an (koan) or huatou (wato).
Per Philip Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen: "Koans cannot be solved by recourse to logical reasoning, but only by awakening a deeper level of the mind beyond discursive intellect."
This is true. At the same time, Analytical Meditation (on no self and emptiness) is about searching for a self that can’t be found. So in that sense, it is also something that can’t be solved.
Matylda
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: Vipassanā in Zen Buddhism

Post by Matylda »

Ivan A wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:48 am Is there a practice of analytical meditation in Zen Buddhism? Do they practice vipassanā?
NO
Nicholas2727
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:44 am

Re: Vipassanā in Zen Buddhism

Post by Nicholas2727 »

Astus wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:58 pm
Ivan A wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:48 amIs there a practice of analytical meditation in Zen Buddhism? Do they practice vipassanā?
The methods of calming (zhi 止) and insight (guan 観) are not unknown, but mainly from sutras like Concentration of Sitting Meditation, treatises like The Awakening of Faith, and the manuals of the Tiantai and the Huayan schools. But as the Platform Sutra (ch 4, BDK ed, p 41-42) puts it:

'Good friends, our teaching takes meditation (ding 定 - concentration) and wisdom (hui 慧) as its fundamental. Everyone, do not say in your delusion that meditation and wisdom are different.
Meditation and wisdom are of one essence, not different. Meditation is the essence of wisdom, and wisdom is the function of meditation. At times
of wisdom, meditation exists in that wisdom; at times of meditation, wisdom exists in that meditation. If you understand this doctrine, this is the equivalent study of meditation and wisdom. All you who study the Way, do not say that they are different, with meditation prior to and generating wisdom or with wisdom prior to and generating meditation. If your view of them is like this, then the Dharma would have two characteristics. This would be to say something good with your mouth but to have that which is not good in your minds. It is to make meditation and wisdom falsely existent to consider them as not equivalent.'


As for Dogen, in Bendowa he is asked about Tendai practice (SBGZ, BDK ed, vol 1, p 16):

[Someone] asks, “Is there nothing to prevent a person who practices this zazen from also performing mantra (shingon 眞言) and quiet-reflection (shikan 止觀) practices?”
I say: When I was in China, I heard the true essence of the teachings from a true master; he said that he had never heard that any of the patriarchs who received the authentic transmission of the Buddha-seal ever performed such practices additionally, in the Western Heavens or in the Eastern Lands, in the past or in the present. Certainly, unless we devote ourselves to one thing, we will not attain complete wisdom.
Don't want to take this too far from the original post but are Kumarajiva works studied and practiced still in East Asian Buddhism? His works seem to focus on early Buddhist styles of meditation, while many of the Chan/zen schools seem to have their own form of meditation such as hua tuo,koans, shikantaza.
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 8883
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Vipassanā in Zen Buddhism

Post by Astus »

Nicholas2727 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:11 pmDon't want to take this too far from the original post but are Kumarajiva works studied and practiced still in East Asian Buddhism?
There sure are some who study them.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Sherap Nyima
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:33 pm

Re: Vipassanā in Zen Buddhism

Post by Sherap Nyima »

Shikantaza (silent sitting), Vipassana=same thing
Post Reply

Return to “Soto”