Sure, not too runny, not to firm, like a good mayonnaise.
Soto zen and problem of satori
Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Fore sure.
Virgo
Last edited by Virgo on Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- LastLegend
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Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
One wants it to be spreadable.
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Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Sure I like for someone lousy like myself. But what purpose?
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Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Grasshopper, you should have learned by now to free yourself of purposes...LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:43 pmSure I like for someone lousy like myself. But what purpose?
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Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
What does Dogen mean by hishiryo? It is subject of exploration.
in the same chapter,In recent years, however, stupid unreliable people have said, “In the effort of zazen, to attain peace of mind is everything. Just this is the state of tranquility.” This opinion is beneath even scholars of the Small Vehicle. It is inferior even to the vehicles of humans and gods. How can we call such people students of the Buddha-Dharma?
again,Describing zazen, he says, “When we are learning sitting dhyāna, that dhyāna is beyond sitting and lying down.” What he is saying now is that zazen is zazen, not sitting or lying down. After we have received the one-to-one transmission of [the teaching] that [zazen] is beyond sitting and lying down, unlimited instances of sitting and lying down are ourself. Why should we seek life-blood in the familiar or unfamiliar? Why should we discuss delusion and realization? Who wishes to pursue an intellectual conclusion?
[Chapter Twenty-seven] Zazenshin A Needle for Zazen SHŌBŌGENZŌ THE TRUE DHARMA-EYE TREASURY Volume II BDKThis being so, even since ancient times, few people have known that zazen is zazen. On the mountains of the great kingdom of Song today, leaders of top-ranking temples who do not know zazen and who do not learn of it are many; there are some who know [zazen] clearly, but they are few. In many temples, of course, times for zazen are laid down, and everyone from the abbot to the monks regards sitting in zazen as the main task. When recruiting students, too, they urge them to sit in zazen. Even so, those abbots who know [zazen] are rare.
Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
You want the mayonnaise to have consistency so it spreads well on your food. Therefore it shouldn't be too runny nor too firm. This is an analogy for consistency. Not being too firm refers to being adaptable and open to change, but not being too runny refers to sticking to your principles and not changing like the weather. Consistency is like mayonnaise.
Virgo
Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
It doesn’t mean only shamatha. It doesn’t turn into insight.
(Zazen) Shikantaza arises out of insight. Without insight Shikantaza would not much more than “have a break for a while and drift away” meditation. Having insight as its basis there is no requirement in Shikantaza to aspire to further insight. Courageous, equanimous abiding in immediacy is entirely sufficient.
'Dogen Zenji said we should give up even the aspiration to become Buddha in our zazen. And this is the meaning of just sitting. When we practice in this way, just aiming at and letting go even of the aspiration to be enlightened, then Buddhahood is there. When we are actually doing that letting go, then Buddha nature is truly revealed. When we give up our gaining mind, then our true life force arises and is actualized.'
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Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Thank you for kindness. I have no clue what that means in relation to mediation?Virgo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:35 pmYou want the mayonnaise to have consistency so it spreads well on your food. Therefore it shouldn't be too runny nor too firm. This is an analogy for consistency. Not being too firm refers to being adaptable and open to change, but not being too runny refers to sticking to your principles and not changing like the weather. Consistency is like mayonnaise.
Virgo
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
What insight itself?jimmi wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:40 pmIt doesn’t mean only shamatha. It doesn’t turn into insight.
(Zazen) Shikantaza arises out of insight. Without insight Shikantaza would not much more than “have a break for a while and drift away” meditation. Having insight as its basis there is no requirement in Shikantaza to aspire to further insight. Courageous, equanimous abiding in immediacy is entirely sufficient.
'Dogen Zenji said we should give up even the aspiration to become Buddha in our zazen. And this is the meaning of just sitting. When we practice in this way, just aiming at and letting go even of the aspiration to be enlightened, then Buddhahood is there. When we are actually doing that letting go, then Buddha nature is truly revealed. When we give up our gaining mind, then our true life force arises and is actualized.'
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Right, the point of all this is that we then have a situation where a person does not have insight. This means, according the definition you are providing, they are not doing shikantaza. This means there are two levels: shikantaza and not shikantaza. This means the path is gradated, despite whatever rhetoric one brings to bear.jimmi wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:40 pm
(Zazen) Shikantaza arises out of insight. Without insight Shikantaza would not much more than “have a break for a while and drift away” meditation. Having insight as its basis there is no requirement in Shikantaza to aspire to further insight. Courageous, equanimous abiding in immediacy is entirely sufficient.
Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
We were talking about Dogen's inconsistency. You are not a jerk.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:47 pm
Thank you for kindness. I have no clue what that means in relation to mediation?
Virgo
Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
There isn’t a person who doesn’t have or hasn’t had insight. What anyone choses to do with the insight that they become aware of is up to them. Shikantaza and not shikantaza is not two levels but two different situations altogether. If one is somehow instructed in Shikantaza yet hasn’t had the personal insight the motivates and energizes their zazen then it is not actually shikantaza. Which is not to say that in “not shikantaza” one cannot come to shikantaza, just that there is no inherent connection there. So no gradated path. No path at all. Immediacy.Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:19 pm Right, the point of all this is that we then have a situation where a person does not have insight. This means, according the definition you are providing, they are not doing shikantaza. This means there are two levels: shikantaza and not shikantaza. This means the path is gradated, despite whatever rhetoric one brings to bear.
Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
The insight that abiding in immediacy is entirely sufficient.
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Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
How sufficient?
One hand we have issue with “just sitting” along with “pointing to the heart of man” not being fleshed out sufficiently. The problem of satori is this. From East to West.
One hand we have issue with “just sitting” along with “pointing to the heart of man” not being fleshed out sufficiently. The problem of satori is this. From East to West.
It’s eye blinking.