What is the function of meditation?

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clyde
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What is the function of meditation?

Post by clyde »

Sometimes it’s good to be reminded.

“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Meditation is the mind’s original state.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by master of puppets »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:57 am Meditation is the mind’s original state.
Liked that words. yours?
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

master of puppets wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:13 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:57 am Meditation is the mind’s original state.
Liked that words. yours?
No, but I read it a few months ago,
and thought about it, and thought,
“yeah. That’s it!”
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Archie2009
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by Archie2009 »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:48 pm
master of puppets wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:13 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:57 am Meditation is the mind’s original state.
Liked that words. yours?
No, but I read it a few months ago,
and thought about it, and thought,
“yeah. That’s it!”
Strictly speaking, wouldn't that be non-meditation, though?
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

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Familiarization with Realization is the function of meditation. Not a Zen way of saying it, but I think it describes Shikantaza as much as other methods.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Archie2009 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:07 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:48 pm
master of puppets wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:13 pm

Liked that words. yours?
No, but I read it a few months ago,
and thought about it, and thought,
“yeah. That’s it!”
Strictly speaking, wouldn't that be non-meditation, though?
Perhaps.
I think what is being referred to is the mind resting in a natural state free of distractions and turbulence.
At that point, any duality of meditation/non-meditation has long been left behind anyway.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Archie2009
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by Archie2009 »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:04 pm
Archie2009 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:07 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:48 pm
No, but I read it a few months ago,
and thought about it, and thought,
“yeah. That’s it!”
Strictly speaking, wouldn't that be non-meditation, though?
Perhaps.
I think what is being referred to is the mind resting in a natural state free of distractions and turbulence.
At that point, any duality of meditation/non-meditation has long been left behind anyway.
But isn't meditation often described as always doing something with your mind in one way or another and therefore inherently dual (subject/object) and so not 'the original state'?
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:04 pm
Archie2009 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:07 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:48 pm
No, but I read it a few months ago,
and thought about it, and thought,
“yeah. That’s it!”
Strictly speaking, wouldn't that be non-meditation, though?
Perhaps.
I think what is being referred to is the mind resting in a natural state free of distractions and turbulence.
At that point, any duality of meditation/non-meditation has long been left behind anyway.
If movement is excluded, that is just Shamatha, the minds nature includes movement and stillness.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:25 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:04 pm
Archie2009 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:07 pm
Strictly speaking, wouldn't that be non-meditation, though?
Perhaps.
I think what is being referred to is the mind resting in a natural state free of distractions and turbulence.
At that point, any duality of meditation/non-meditation has long been left behind anyway.
If movement is excluded, that is just Shamatha, the minds nature includes movement and stillness.
“Turbulence” refers to conflicting thoughts.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by Arnoud »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:36 pm Familiarization with Realization is the function of meditation. Not a Zen way of saying it, but I think it describes Shikantaza as much as other methods.
How would you define Realization?
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by zerwe »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:36 pm Familiarization with Realization is the function of meditation. Not a Zen way of saying it, but I think it describes Shikantaza as much as other methods.
Although I have not watched the video, which I feel I now should do, I have always been taught that meditation IS to "become familiar" and thus serves the purpose of being the function asked by the thread title. So, familiarization falls into this.

Shaun :namaste:
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Arnoud wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:47 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:36 pm Familiarization with Realization is the function of meditation. Not a Zen way of saying it, but I think it describes Shikantaza as much as other methods.
How would you define Realization?
Depends on the vehicle/view really I think. I guess here (the Zen/Chan section) it would be phrased like seeing ones true nature, original face, nature of mind etc. Not so different from Tibetan traditions IMO.

The thing is that sometimes meditation is talked about from the point of view of the path, and other times from the view of the result.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by Arnoud »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:59 am
Arnoud wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:47 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:36 pm Familiarization with Realization is the function of meditation. Not a Zen way of saying it, but I think it describes Shikantaza as much as other methods.
How would you define Realization?
Depends on the vehicle/view really I think. I guess here (the Zen/Chan section) it would be phrased like seeing ones true nature, original face, nature of mind etc. Not so different from Tibetan traditions IMO.

The thing is that sometimes meditation is talked about from the point of view of the path, and other times from the view of the result.
Good point. What would you say to a non Buddhist? Someone who is interested and wants to know what meditation is. Familiarization with the nature of mind still works I guess.
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Arnoud wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:27 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:59 am
Arnoud wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:47 am

How would you define Realization?
Depends on the vehicle/view really I think. I guess here (the Zen/Chan section) it would be phrased like seeing ones true nature, original face, nature of mind etc. Not so different from Tibetan traditions IMO.

The thing is that sometimes meditation is talked about from the point of view of the path, and other times from the view of the result.
Good point. What would you say to a non Buddhist? Someone who is interested and wants to know what meditation is. Familiarization with the nature of mind still works I guess.


For non-Buddhists I just emphasize the worldly benefits, increased sense of calmness, etc. and point them to simple meditations on YouTube, etc. I think that that is adequate, with some people who ask detailed questions I’ve said stuff like ‘you don’t do anything, you actually stop doing’, some people have responded, others just think it “deepities” or whatever.

For people who are Christian, secular, or whatever I think their capacity to understand the overall context of Buddhist meditation usually isn’t there.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by passel »

Familiarization with the nature of mind is fine, but I like pickling in the dharmakaya.
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Archie2009 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:07 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:48 pm
master of puppets wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:13 pm

Liked that words. yours?
No, but I read it a few months ago,
and thought about it, and thought,
“yeah. That’s it!”
Strictly speaking, wouldn't that be non-meditation, though?
It's just words... the M-word is a convenient way of talking about the practices done in these traditions. But if you want to know what the practice is, don't look to the words... look to the practice.
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by Archie2009 »

passel wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:27 am Familiarization with the nature of mind is fine, but I like pickling in the dharmakaya.
Sumptuous.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Lots of good specific answers.
Generally speaking, I think the “function” of meditation (not necessarily the purpose) is that it knocks the mind out of its usual habitual orbit.
For example, almost everything we do is goal-oriented. We keep in order to get things.
But with shamatha meditation, it’s just the opposite. You aren’t trying to go anywhere. You are just sitting and observing.
I remember once seeing a poster for a meditation group on a college campus. It said something like, “Think you’ve tried everything? Try doing nothing”. And I’ve heard instructors tell beginning meditators to give themselves permission to “take a ten-minute vacation once or twice a day”, where they aren’t striving to get something. To just sit and watch the breath.
Of course, this is basic shamatha. There are other types of meditation, but it always seems to be about taking the mind in the opposite direction. TongLen (sending and receiving) is an other example of this. Our usual habit is to push away that which is negative and to grasp for that which is positive. In TongLen, we visualize taking (inhaling) another’s afflictions and sending them positive thoughts. Even to our enemies.
Ultimately, turning the mind around this way cuts though self-grasping.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: What is the function of meditation?

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passel wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:27 am Familiarization with the nature of mind is fine, but I like pickling in the dharmakaya.
And how do you figure those are different, exactly? Is Dharmakaya one thing, and the nature of mind another? Do tell.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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