Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
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Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... nd_therapy
Chan Buddhism is most popular school in Modern Chinese Buddhism.
Modern psychology believes that the masters and monks of Chan Buddhism can better treat people from mental illness because they know better how other people's minds work?
Are there monks with special psychic abilities who can read the minds of others?
https://suttacentral.net/mn119/en/horner
It would be useful for psychology to be able to read the minds of other people. Thank you
Chan Buddhism is most popular school in Modern Chinese Buddhism.
Modern psychology believes that the masters and monks of Chan Buddhism can better treat people from mental illness because they know better how other people's minds work?
Are there monks with special psychic abilities who can read the minds of others?
https://suttacentral.net/mn119/en/horner
It would be useful for psychology to be able to read the minds of other people. Thank you
Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
That's only an abstract, but the paper is from 2008. Any follow up studies?
How do we know that? Also, it's probably not true.Chan Buddhism is most popular school in Modern Chinese Buddhism.
Unlikely.Modern psychology believes that the masters and monks of Chan Buddhism can better treat people from mental illness because they know better how other people's minds work?
It would be wonderful if they could read their own minds.Are there monks with special psychic abilities who can read the minds of others?
Parapsychology is supposed to deal with telepathy. Psychology not so much.It would be useful for psychology to be able to read the minds of other people.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
"It would be wonderful if they could read their own minds."Astus wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:38 pmThat's only an abstract, but the paper is from 2008. Any follow up studies?
How do we know that? Also, it's probably not true.Chan Buddhism is most popular school in Modern Chinese Buddhism.
Unlikely.Modern psychology believes that the masters and monks of Chan Buddhism can better treat people from mental illness because they know better how other people's minds work?
It would be wonderful if they could read their own minds.Are there monks with special psychic abilities who can read the minds of others?
Parapsychology is supposed to deal with telepathy. Psychology not so much.It would be useful for psychology to be able to read the minds of other people.
what does it mean?
Does Chan Buddhism have telepathy?
How is the psychology of Chan Buddhism different from modern psychology?
Thank you
Last edited by Arnold3000 on Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
Chan Buddhism is about seeing into the mind we use all the time, that is the primary goal. Worrying about the minds of others can only come later.Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:55 pm"It would be wonderful if they could read their own minds."
what does it mean?
You can read these two booklets by Ven. Hsing Yun:Does Chan Buddhism have telepathy?
How is the psychology of Chan Buddhism different from modern psychology?
The Buddhist Perspective on the Supernatural
Buddhism and Psychology
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
"Worrying about the minds of others can only come later."Astus wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:18 pmChan Buddhism is about seeing into the mind we use all the time, that is the primary goal. Worrying about the minds of others can only come later.Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:55 pm"It would be wonderful if they could read their own minds."
what does it mean?
You can read these two booklets by Ven. Hsing Yun:Does Chan Buddhism have telepathy?
How is the psychology of Chan Buddhism different from modern psychology?
The Buddhist Perspective on the Supernatural
Buddhism and Psychology
Does this mean that the practitioner first brings his mind to enlightenment and then helps other minds to come to enlightenment?
Is it like when a psychologist first studies at the university and then helps patients deal with their stress and anxiety?
Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
Sure. How else could it be?Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:27 pmDoes this mean that the practitioner first brings his mind to enlightenment and then helps other minds to come to enlightenment?
Is it like when a psychologist first studies at the university and then helps patients deal with their stress and anxiety?
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
- LastLegend
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
Enlightenment means we have to genuinely know that’s we are not subject to karmic rebirth. There are strict signs.Astus wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:38 pmSure. How else could it be?Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:27 pmDoes this mean that the practitioner first brings his mind to enlightenment and then helps other minds to come to enlightenment?
Is it like when a psychologist first studies at the university and then helps patients deal with their stress and anxiety?
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
It’s possible to be free of karma indefinitely, even forever, without achieving Enlightenment yet [eventually one will], such as being in a Buddha Land, and one can still choose to take rebirth in the Saha world without karma in a non-regressive karma free state, yet still not being a full Buddha, because of their level of Bodhisattvic ideal up to that point.
So while you are still on the Path, it is important to engage with other people’s minds in Buddhism, one’s own, and make the best of what you can, and seek Enlightenment diligently.
So while you are still on the Path, it is important to engage with other people’s minds in Buddhism, one’s own, and make the best of what you can, and seek Enlightenment diligently.
Last edited by Budai on Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
Just because our minds are at peace and seen as empty doesn’t mean we have reached Noble Wisdom Samadhi of what describes in Sutras. Because there is ignorance left. What is that ignorance!? My teacher said...what? That enlightenment could be extremely difficult and easy at the same time.
Last edited by LastLegend on Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
If we want to feel a Buddha, we’ll arise a peaceful thought towards that Buddha (a real one like Avalokitesvara and Samantabhadra). If we don’t recognize their presence that means we are not in tune with them.
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
A lot of Zen folks here, though following Mahayana, are actually practicing Sravakayana...there is nothing wrong with that except it’s not Mahayana. Why? Because they don’t believe in external force of Buddhas who are able to transform their karma over time and leading them towards Noble Wisdom. Simply because they don’t recognize Buddhas’ presence and how Buddhas respond to them.
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
That is, monks and Chan Buddhism masters can help people cope with their mental disorders, anxiety and stresses?Astus wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:38 pmSure. How else could it be?Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:27 pmDoes this mean that the practitioner first brings his mind to enlightenment and then helps other minds to come to enlightenment?
Is it like when a psychologist first studies at the university and then helps patients deal with their stress and anxiety?
And the customary believers of Chan Buddhism who have enlightened their minds can help the minds of other people to come to enlightenment or is it only a master or a monk can?
Thank you.
Last edited by Arnold3000 on Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
Asking such a difficult question!?Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:55 pm"It would be wonderful if they could read their own minds."Astus wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:38 pmThat's only an abstract, but the paper is from 2008. Any follow up studies?
How do we know that? Also, it's probably not true.Chan Buddhism is most popular school in Modern Chinese Buddhism.
Unlikely.Modern psychology believes that the masters and monks of Chan Buddhism can better treat people from mental illness because they know better how other people's minds work?
It would be wonderful if they could read their own minds.Are there monks with special psychic abilities who can read the minds of others?
Parapsychology is supposed to deal with telepathy. Psychology not so much.It would be useful for psychology to be able to read the minds of other people.
what does it mean?
Does Chan Buddhism have telepathy?
How is the psychology of Chan Buddhism different from modern psychology?
Thank you
It’s about entering Samadhi unless reading one’s own mind to know before a bad karmic experience arises, that’s useful.
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
"So while you are still on the Path, it is important to engage with other people’s minds in Buddhism"Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:48 pm It’s possible to be free of karma indefinitely, even forever, without achieving Enlightenment yet [eventually one will], such as being in a Buddha Land, and one can still choose to take rebirth in the Saha world without karma in a non-regressive karma free state, yet still not being a full Buddha, because of their level of Bodhisattvic ideal up to that point.
So while you are still on the Path, it is important to engage with other people’s minds in Buddhism, one’s own, and make the best of what you can, and seek Enlightenment diligently.
on the path to enlightenment Chan Buddhists must engage with all people’s minds or only with other Chan Buddhists minds, monks minds and masters minds?
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
Anyone can become enlightened...monks and masters are not automatically equivalent to enlightened minds. It depends on causes and conditions that lead you to those masters.Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:24 pmThat is, monks and Chan Buddhism masters can help people cope with their mental disorders, anxiety and stresses?Astus wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:38 pmSure. How else could it be?Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:27 pmDoes this mean that the practitioner first brings his mind to enlightenment and then helps other minds to come to enlightenment?
Is it like when a psychologist first studies at the university and then helps patients deal with their stress and anxiety?
And the customary believers of Chan Buddhism who have enlightened their minds can help the minds of other people to come to enlightenment or is it only a master or a monk can?
Thank you.
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
But the Chan master can help another person cope with his negative thoughts and stresses. What about the enlightened Chan Buddhist who is not a master? Can he also help other minds cope with their stresses, or will he not have sufficient knowledge?LastLegend wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:49 pmAnyone can become enlightened...monks and masters are not automatically equivalent to enlightened minds. It depends on causes and conditions that lead you to those masters.Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:24 pmThat is, monks and Chan Buddhism masters can help people cope with their mental disorders, anxiety and stresses?
And the customary believers of Chan Buddhism who have enlightened their minds can help the minds of other people to come to enlightenment or is it only a master or a monk can?
Thank you.
- LastLegend
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
When I said enlightened minds I mean samadhi of Noble Wisdom or Mahaprajna.
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- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
Understanding one’s own mind enables a better understanding of the minds of others, no telepathy needed.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
They can try...but if those folks don’t follow the teaching and they don’t feel tired of suffering and not decide to follow the path, that’s difficult. Enlightened minds don’t actively go seek those folks with anxiety and stress to help.Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:16 pmBut the Chan master can help another person cope with his negative thoughts and stresses. What about the enlightened Chan Buddhist who is not a master? Can he also help other minds cope with their stresses, or will he not have sufficient knowledge?LastLegend wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:49 pmAnyone can become enlightened...monks and masters are not automatically equivalent to enlightened minds. It depends on causes and conditions that lead you to those masters.Arnold3000 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:24 pm
That is, monks and Chan Buddhism masters can help people cope with their mental disorders, anxiety and stresses?
And the customary believers of Chan Buddhism who have enlightened their minds can help the minds of other people to come to enlightenment or is it only a master or a monk can?
Thank you.
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: Modern Chinese Chan Buddhism and Modern Psychology
Agreed. When one's own mind is clear, one can see everything more clearly. That includes other people and their issues.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:26 pm Understanding one’s own mind enables a better understanding of the minds of others, no telepathy needed.
I think it's just a matter of clearing away the garbage in one's mind. There's a lot of garbage that gets in the way of a deep connection with another person. The more it's cleared away, the deeper one can relate with someone else. Profound empathy can arise and one can really experience what is happening with another person.