Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

A forum for those wishing to discuss Buddhist history and teachings in the Western academic manner, referencing appropriate sources.
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Queequeg »

Accepting the premise that pratyekabuddhas, as all beings in beginningless samsara have encountered buddhas. Does pratyekabuddha's awakening include recollection of past lives? So far the assertion has been made that pratyekabuddha do understand themselves in terms of Buddhadharma... are there any textual sources for this?

I am skeptical that anything but Ekayana is universal such that I' not entirely convinced that much of what we think of as Buddhadharma is in fact universal. Most of it, IMHO, is therapeutic. Informing this view are instances in the Lotus and Vimalakirti Sutras where bodhisattvas from other lands have to be told by the buddhas of their worlds to not look down on Shakyamuni Buddha, his teachings, and the beings of Saha. There are descriptions of realms where dharma is taught by scent. This suggests there is no single Buddhadharma that is taught that is universal, but rather bodies of teachings that are needed by the beings who appear in the various realms.

And the text referred to by OP very explicitly states the whole three vehicle scheme is an upaya for the beings who appear during and after Shakyamuni's appearance.

I'll confess, I don't have much invested in this discussion - its more or less counting angels on a pin for me because I do think this teaching itself is upaya and therefore only useful in so far as it is useful, and no further. And what does it teach? In the context referred to by the OP, its to impress that all beings are actually on the Buddhayana (even as they might be convinced they're on the sravkayana, pratyekabuddhayana (whatever form that conceit actually takes) and bodhisattvayana).

I suspect a lot of the variations on an answer here are going to come down to various systems that benignly (and not so benignly) coexist under the banner of Buddhism.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:24 pm Accepting the premise that pratyekabuddhas, as all beings in beginningless samsara have encountered buddhas. Does pratyekabuddha's awakening include recollection of past lives? So far the assertion has been made that pratyekabuddha do understand themselves in terms of Buddhadharma... are there any textual sources for this?
Yes. Check out access to insight run a search on paccekabuddha
User avatar
kusulu
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:39 am

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by kusulu »

They would have to know the 3 Characteristics without the context of a Buddha, Sangha, or Dharma. But 3 Characteristics, or Dharma Seals, are essential to the Dharma. It's just that many informed people know ego or "Self" is only a misguided mental construct, that everything is ever-changing, temporary, and impermanent.. however a pratyekabuddha must somehow infer that there is a Path to Liberation, when life only is unsatisfactory, and be able to traverse that path. Glad its not me, I'm struggling with it being fully explained to me.
PeterC
Posts: 5191
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by PeterC »

Sādhaka wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:16 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:20 pm
PeterC wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:37 amThey achieve realization, so yes they know what they are, but the defining difference between a Pratyekhabuddha and a Samyaksambuddha is the ability to turn the wheel of Dharma. Pratyekhabuddhas can teach only by example, e.g. by demonstrating the siddhis

Then only Uttamanirmāṇakāya’s are Samyaksambuddha’s, or vice-versa?

To respond to my own question, that doesn’t seem right.

I suppose it would then be that all Uttamanirmāṇakāya’s are Samyaksambuddha’s, yet not all Samyaksambuddha’s are necessarily Uttamanirmāṇakāya’s.
Are we talking Mahayana pratyekabuddhas? If so then yes, I think
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:15 am
Queequeg wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:24 pm Accepting the premise that pratyekabuddhas, as all beings in beginningless samsara have encountered buddhas. Does pratyekabuddha's awakening include recollection of past lives? So far the assertion has been made that pratyekabuddha do understand themselves in terms of Buddhadharma... are there any textual sources for this?
Yes. Check out access to insight run a search on paccekabuddha
Didn't find much other than they don't overcome obscurations like sravaka. Nothing about recalling past lives etc.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Norwegian
Posts: 2632
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Norwegian »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:24 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:15 am
Queequeg wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:24 pm Accepting the premise that pratyekabuddhas, as all beings in beginningless samsara have encountered buddhas. Does pratyekabuddha's awakening include recollection of past lives? So far the assertion has been made that pratyekabuddha do understand themselves in terms of Buddhadharma... are there any textual sources for this?
Yes. Check out access to insight run a search on paccekabuddha
Didn't find much other than they don't overcome obscurations like sravaka. Nothing about recalling past lives etc.
From The Concept of the Buddha: Its Evolution from Early Buddhism to the Trikaya Theory, by Guang Xing (the explanation as presented in the Sarvastivada):
"Regarding the knowledge of their own past lives and of other people's past lives, Buddhas have three kinds of special merit: knowledge, power and the absence of hindrances. Pratyekabuddhas and dhyana shravakas have two merits, knowledge and the absence of hindrances, and shaiksa shravakas only have the absence of hindrances. Fourth, with regard to the kleshas, Buddhas have completely eradicated them without any trace or residual effect because the wisdom of Buddhas is sharp and powerful, like the fire at the end of the kalpa, burning all things without trace. In the case of pratyekabuddhas and shravakas, although they have eliminated kleshas the residual effect is still there because their wisdom is not as sharp as that of Buddhas; this is likened to a worldly fire, burning everything but leaving behind ashes. Fifth, with regard to the knowledge of the minds of all other beings (paracittajñana), Buddhas are able to know the mind of fifteen ksanas, pratyekabuddhas are able to know three ksanas, and shravakas are able to know two ksanas only. It is so because Buddhas are able to exert paracittajñana without any earnest endeavour (prayoga) while pratyekabuddhas require slight endeavour, and shravakas need to make an intermediate or strenous effort."
Pratyekabuddhas are one step higher on the ladder than Shravaka Arhats, but one step lower on the ladder than Arya Bodhisattvas. Thus if Shravaka Arhats recall their past lives, naturally enough a Pratyekabuddha does as well. And as we can see, they also overcome obscurations (but not all), more so than Shravakas. Thus, the Pratyekabuddhas' understanding and view of reality is more subtle than that of the shravakas.

In his commentary on the Abhisamayalamkara (where this subject matter is also discussed), Arya Vimuktisena states that since the realization of the Pratyekabuddha eliminates object conceptualization, it is superior to Shravaka realization. And since Pratyekabuddha realization does not eliminate subject conceptualization, Buddha realization is superior to it.

Via Dudjom Rinpoche, from his big red book:
Self-centered Buddhas:

[70a.6-70b.6] The self-centred buddhas (pratyekabuddhas), on the other hand, in addition to [the moments] beginning with impermanence as they apply to the four truths, meditate on the twelve modes of dependent origination. While their progression on the path is generally identical to that of the pious attendants (shravakas), [the difference between them is that] the pious attendants hold self with respect to the individual subject to be abandoned but the indivisible atomic matter of objects to continue in ultimate reality. The self-centred buddhas, however, hold all these objects to be fallacious and non-existent in ultimate reality apart from mere mental phenomena. And they are partially identical to the Mind Only (Cittamatra) position in their opinion that the internal subjective consciousness genuinely does exist. As it is said in the Ornament of Emergent Realisation (Ch.2, v.8):

Since they renounce the idea of objects
And since they do not renounce the subject,
One must know the path genuinely subsumed therein
Is that of a rhinoceros-like recipient.


Having meditated in this way on selflessness as far as the great path of provisions, every attainment from the feeling of warmth on the path of connection to the path of no-more-learning is actualised in a single sitting. Thus, the two vehicles of the pious attendants and the self-centred buddhas are differentiated according to degree of [their adherents'] acumen, and yet there is no great difference in their pattern of thought and realisation, for which reason they possess the same pitaka.
and:
Vehicle of Self-centred Buddhas

[124a.6-127.a.2] Secondly, the vehicle of self-centred buddhas is also classified under three headings of essence, verbal definition and classification. The essence is that, without relying on a master, during one's final life in the world, one meditates on the path of dependent origination as a means for attaining manifest enlightenment, through the realisation of one-and-a-half parts of [the concept of] selflessness.

Secondly, the verbal definition: The [Sanskrit] pratyekabuddha is rendered as self-centred buddha [Tib. rang-rgyal] because it implies that one's own enlightenment is realised by oneself. The enlightenment is attained individually, that is, for oneself alone.

Thirdly, there are six classifications as above, of which the first is the entrance. The Tantras of Great Natural Arising of Awareness says:

The entrance is through the twelvefold dependent origination.

In this way, a self-centred buddha enters through the twelve modes of dependent origination. As for dependent origination, it says in the Heruka Galpo:

The doctrine of self-centred buddhas,
In order to purify the intellect,
Includes the doctrine of outer and inner
Dependent origination.


Accordingly, the twelve modes of dependent origination are both outward and inward. If one were to ask in what way these [twelve] revolve, the outward dependent origination of [physical elements] revolves quantitatively, and the inward dependent origination revolves as propensities in non-corporeal beings and concretely in respect to corporeal beings. Concerning the procedure for entering therein: In general a self-centered buddha of the highest acumen, in the [solitary] manner of a rhinoceros, has accumulated the path of provisions over a period of one hundred aeons. One of mediocre acumen and great conduct in respect to the provisions has accumulated the provisions as far as the middling degree of receptiveness (bzod-'bring) over a hundred human lives. And one of inferior acumen and low in conduct relating to the provisions has accumulated the provisions subsumed by the fifteenth moment [of pristine cognition] on the path of insight over thirteen human lives. Knowing that there is no chance of attaining enlightenment on this basis [alone], with prayers of aspiration they take birth in a world which is entirely unoccupied by buddhas and pious attendants. As the Root Stanzas on the Madhyamaka (Ch.18,v.12) says:

If buddhas do not emerge
And pious attendants have ceased to be,
The pristine cognition of the self-centered buddha
Is well developed without support.


On this basis and without preceptor or master, [the would-be self-centred buddhas] become natural monks. Going to a charnel ground, they become disillusioned with samsara immediately after seeing the bones, and when they investigate the source from which these bones originated, it is realised that they originated from old age and death, that these in turn originated from birth, and in this way it is gradually realised that the root of samsara is ignorance. Then, wondering how to attain liberation from this, they enter by realising the trend in which dependent origination is reversed, namely, that if ignorance is abolished, habitual tendencies cease and so on down to the cessation of old age and death. Secondly, in their view [the self-centred buddhas] are similar to the pious attendants who realise selflessness with reference to the individual, but in addition they realise that the indivisible atomic particles which are the objective aspect of selfhood as it relates to phenomena do not independently exist. However, since they still regard the time moments forming the subjective mind to be ultimately real, and hold that the cause and result of samsara and nirvana are found in dependent origination, they are said to be realised in one-and-a-half parts of what is implied by selflessness. It says in the Ornament of Emergent Realisation (Ch.2, v.8):

Since they renounce the idea of objects,
And since they do not renounce the subject,
One must know that the path genuinely subsumed therein
Is that of a rhinoceros-like recipient.


And in the Sequence of the View:

Similarly, the vehicle of the self-centered buddhas
Concerns the mere illusion of the twelve outer
[links of dependent origination];
It is superior in holding atoms not to exist
In any spatial dimension,
But agrees that consciousness
Is a series of time moments.


So also in the Sequence of the Path:

If one does not perceive deeds and all the conflicting emotions
To be in fact sameness.
And entirely cling to the cause and result of dependent origination.
This is the level of self-centred buddhas.


Then this, one might object, contradicts the passage from the Thirty Verses (Trimshikakarika, T 4055, v.28d) which says:

If there is no object, there is no subject.

There is, however, no flaw. This passage explains that, if that which is apprehended by direct perception is realised to have no independent existence, the subject is also necessarily understood [in the same way]. In this vehicle, on the other hand, it is said that the object is realised to have no independent existence because objects which conceptually appear to the intellect are realised to be without independent existence, and because during such realisation, the ignorance which has become the root of the three poisons is reversed. Thirdly, in moral discipline, [the self-centred buddhas] are similar to the pious attendants. It says in the Miraculous Key of Further Discernment (yang-'byed-'phrul-gyi lde-mig, NGB Vol.2)

The limits which pious attendants
And the self-centred buddhas sustain
Are the two hundred and fifty disciplines of Vinaya.


Fourth, on meditation, the Yogacara Level says:

It should be known to be just like that of the pious attendants,
Because these two are similar in the nature of their paths.


Despite this claim that the [self-centred buddhas] meditate on the path referring to the pitaka of the pious attendants, masters of the past have said that in the Sutra which Dispels the Grief of Ajatashatru (Ajatashatrukaukrtyavinodanasutra, T 216), the pitaka of the self-centred buddhas are briefly and distinctly explained in contrast to the pitaka of the pious attendants. Also, in other texts, such as the Ornament of Emergent Realisation and its commentaries [Abhisamayalamkaravrtti, etc. T 3787-9, 3791, 3793-6], their path is claimed to differ from that of the pious attendants. This is because, over and above the sixteen moments beginning with impermanence such as apply to the four truths, [the self-centred buddhas] obstruct the trend in which dependent origination arises and meditate in the correct order on the twelve [antidotes], that is, the emptiness belonging to the trend in which it is reversed. Fifth, in conduct, [the self-centred buddhas] communicate with those who require training through symbolic gestures, which are performed through the miraculous abilities of their bodies, and without teaching the doctrine by their speech. It says in the Ornament of Emergent Realisation (Ch.2, v.7):

To those respective persons
Who require training,
Whatever they wish to hear,
The respective meaning just appear,
Without even a sound being uttered.


And in the Turquoise Display:

By conduct that is the miraculous ability of their bodies,
They variously act on behalf of others.


Sixth, as for the result, the self-centred buddha of sharp acumen who remains in solitude like a rhinoceros, after perfecting the five paths in a single sitting, becomes manifest, through the supreme bliss of his purpose, as an arhat who is conscious that the cessation [of corruption] has come about and that it will not be recreated. The Treasury of the Abhidharma (Ch.6, v.24) says:

The Teacher and the self-centred buddha, similar to a rhinoceros,
Become entirely enlightened on the sole basis of the final contemplation,
And, before that, they are in accord with liberation.


Those of greater and lesser conduct with respect to the provisions, who flock together in the manner of parrots, respectively make manifest the first four and the first three paths. Again, on the subject of these self centred buddhas, the Extensive Magical Net says:

Knowing outer and inner dependent origination
[To be] in the manner of an illusion and a mirage,
They thoroughly penetrate substantial forms without impediment,
They become realised through intrinsic awareness, untaught by a spiritual benefactor,
And, with supreme bliss of purpose, proceed to an enlightened level.
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Queequeg »

Norwegian wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:14 pm ...
Thank you. That is really helpful. The Red Book looks like an interesting source book. Will check it out.

I'm still not clear on this point, though.

Does a pratyekabuddha conceive of themselves as "pratyekabuddha"?

Being aware of the Buddhist path through past life recollection, they would know that they are pratyekabuddha and implicitly that their awakening is incomplete. Are we to conclude that they simply do not care? I think this is more or less the critique of sravaka as well - that they see and pursue the path of their own release but are not particularly concerned with others. Pratyekabuddha along with sravaka are called burnt seeds in the Mahayana.

A tangential question -

The incompleteness of their awakening, though, I understand is the basis of their future Buddhahood. They think they have reached a final goal and are therefore inert to the teachings of the Mahayana now, but we are told that this is not really the case that they have achieved a final liberation. As I understand, their "enlightenment" is more like the long, uneventful life of a being in the formless heavens and that eventually, the merit of their "parinirvana" is exhausted and they must continue on the path to Buddhahood. Is this explained in the account of pratyekabuddha described by DR?
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Norwegian
Posts: 2632
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Norwegian »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:25 pm
Norwegian wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:14 pm ...
Thank you. That is really helpful. The Red Book looks like an interesting source book. Will check it out.
Just in case you don't know its actual title (it's affectionately referred to as the big red / the big red book by Vajrayana practitioners) it's called "The Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism: Its Fundamentals and History". It focuses on the history and the path of the Nyingma school. And since the Nyingma school operates with the nine yana presentation, there are sections of the book which are nice for a very condensed presentation of Hinayana, and Mahayana, as well as of course Outer Tantra and Inner Tantra. Dudjom Rinpoche uses sutras, shastras, tantras, and their commentaries as sources wherever relevant, in order to comment on something.
I'm still not clear on this point, though.

Does a pratyekabuddha conceive of themselves as "pratyekabuddha"?

Being aware of the Buddhist path through past life recollection, they would know that they are pratyekabuddha and implicitly that their awakening is incomplete. Are we to conclude that they simply do not care? I think this is more or less the critique of sravaka as well - that they see and pursue the path of their own release but are not particularly concerned with others. Pratyekabuddha along with sravaka are called burnt seeds in the Mahayana.
I am not sure if they conceive of themselves as "pratyekabuddha", but, in the past - at the feet of a supreme nirmanakaya - for example Buddha Shakyamuni, they have made very intense prayers and aspirations to be reborn in a time where the dispensation of a supreme nirmanakaya simply does not exist. Of course this rules out the presence of any such pratyekabuddha now. What they do then is that they are extremely limited in their teaching, only by way of symbols or miraculous powers. As for location, it's not really "the world", more like "a region" or so. But of course this is better than nothing. Since their realization is limited, much like the Arhat, they do not really conceive of that being the case. To them, they have their realization - which certainly makes them an Arya, and as such worthy of veneration - but it being limited, they are within that limited scope alone.

We know that the Arhat that enters cessation, eventually is roused from that cessation innumerable eons later, by the Buddhas, and are put on the path of the Bodhisattva. For the Pratyekabuddha it is similar. In the future after their manifestation as a Pratyekabuddha, they too will eventually manifest full Buddhahood, when all the causes and conditions come together for that to happen. With both the Shravaka Arhat and the Pratyekabuddha, the timeline from being ordinary practitioner to Shravaka Arhat or Pratyekabuddha, all the way to Buddhahood is extremely vast. This of course is why in the Mahayana, these two goals are completely undesirable, because there are sentient beings that needs our help and by becoming a Shravaka Arhat or Pratyekabuddha, we are basically wasting our time. Bodhicitta is not present for the Shravaka Arhat or Pratyekabuddha. But again, they're Aryas, so they have a realization, it's just that it's limited.
A tangential question -

The incompleteness of their awakening, though, I understand is the basis of their future Buddhahood. They think they have reached a final goal and are therefore inert to the teachings of the Mahayana now, but we are told that this is not really the case that they have achieved a final liberation. As I understand, their "enlightenment" is more like the long, uneventful life of a being in the formless heavens and that eventually, the merit of their "parinirvana" is exhausted and they must continue on the path to Buddhahood. Is this explained in the account of pratyekabuddha described by DR?
What I quoted in the above post is what Dudjom Rinpoche mentions about the Pratyekabuddha. It might be an idea to check various root texts (in particular five paths literature, etc.), such as various sutras, the Abhisamayalamkara, along with commentaries, more more information and details.
User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 3419
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Caoimhghín »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:24 pmAccepting the premise that pratyekabuddhas, as all beings in beginningless samsara have encountered buddhas. Does pratyekabuddha's awakening include recollection of past lives?
They're pretty weird. The Jains have pratyekabuddhas too as a term apparently.

In the Mahasamghika Ekottaragama there is a sutra about the Pratyekabuddhas that explains that many of them once lived on the vulture peak ages ago in a community there (complicating the idea of them as strictly solitary realizers) and would allegedly cremate themselves in the air/space/sky/emptiness above the mountaintop to attain the deathless. It's an odd little story.
是時,諸辟支佛即於空中燒身取般涅槃。
At that time, all the Pratyekabuddhas would, admist the sky, burn their bodies to reach parinibbāna.
(EĀ 38.7 T125.723b06)

The story is that supposedly that at one time, in the remote past, the Vulture Peak was known as Ṛṣigiri and hosted this assembly of Pratyekabuddhas.

Reminds me of:
Then Ven. Dabba Mallaputta, rising from his seat, bowed down to the Blessed One and, circling him on the right, rose up into the air and sat cross-legged in the sky, in space. Entering & emerging from the fire property, he was totally unbound. Now, when Dabba Mallaputta rose up into the air and, sitting cross-legged in the sky, in space, entered & emerged from the fire property and was totally unbound, his body burned and was consumed so that neither ashes nor soot could be discerned. Just as when ghee or oil is burned and consumed, neither ashes nor soot can be discerned, in the same way, when Dabba Mallaputta rose up into the air and, sitting cross-legged in the sky, in space, entered & emerged from the fire property and was totally unbound, his body burned and was consumed so that neither ashes nor soot could be discerned.
(Ud 8.9)
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 3419
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Caoimhghín »

Also, adding to this general oddness surrounding the Pratyekabuddhas, the Lotus Sutra actually parses the phrase in numerous places as "pratyayabuddha" and associates the 12 nidanas with them. In the LS text, the pratyayabuddhas achieve awakening when they understand the Buddha's exposition of the 12 links or pratityasamutpada. Their vehicle in the LS is called *pratyayasaṃbodhiyāna (緣覺乘 @ T262.5c14).

In many of the sutras preceding the mainstream era of Chinese translation of the Buddhadharma, pratyekabuddhas are pratyayabuddhas (緣覺). This term carries into and is preserved even after the mainstream period of translation. It seems to come from a confusion via Gandhari of K and Y.

In Gandhari, the two are synonyms.

paceġabudha

The "ġ" makes a "Y" sound. Other variants include:

praceabudha
pracegabudha
pracagabudha
pracekabudha

All of the G's freely vary with Y's, possibly the K too.
Last edited by Caoimhghín on Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
haha
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:30 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by haha »

Some perspectives,

According to Jam-yang-shay-ba, they understand reverse order of dependent-arising. He regards they abandoned coarse level of obstructions to omniscience by meditating on emptiness. They have higher level of compassion than Sravaka. But one needs to check from which tenet.

According to Nagarjuna of maha-prajnaparamita-sastra,
Furthermore, there are two kinds of pratyekabuddhas: the one who is enlightened by himself and the one who is enlightened as the result of an event (nidāna). We will give an example of the pratyekabuddha enlightened following an event. The one who is enlightened by himself is he who attains wisdom by himself during the present lifetime without learning from another; this is the pratyekabuddha enlightened by himself.

There are two kinds of self-enlightened pratyekabuddhas: i) First he was a śaikṣa, born among humans; at a time when the Buddha and his Dharma had not yet disappeared, he was a srotaāpanna; since then, at the end of seven lifetimes without an eighth, he himself attains Bodhi. This person is not called Buddha, is not called arhat; he is a minor pratyekabuddha no different from the arhats. – ii) There are also pratyekabuddhas who are not like Śāriputra or the other great arhats; these great pratyekabuddhas, during one hundred great kalpas, have practiced the qualities and increased (vardhana) their wisdom; they have some of the thirty-two marks [of the Great Man]: thirty-one, thirty, twenty-nine or even one single mark; in their wisdom they prevail over the nine kinds of arhats; they are able to penetrate the general characteristics (sāmānyalakṣaṇa) and the specific characteristics (bhinnalakṣaṇa) inherent in the profound dharmas (gambhīradharma); they cultivate (bhāvayanti) the absorptions (samāpatti) for a long time and are always pleased with solitude. They are called great pratyekabuddhas for all these characteristics. This constitutes the difference.

Maha Prajnaparamita Sastra
According to Pali Canonical and Commentarial Literature,
Having entered upon religious life, the Paccekabodhisatta lives the life of an ascetic and dedicates himself to meditation practises. Except for the instances of sudden and spontaneous enlightenment, the aspirant for Paccekabodhi has to strive to reach his goal through the hard practise of meditation.
Several forms of meditation are mentioned in the texts with reference to thePaccekabodhisatta’s practise. He can choose whichever method he wishes, according to personal preference, to prepare his mind for the attainment of enlightenment.
further,
Sometimes insight into the truths or into certain doctrinal points is not the direct result ofsystematic practise, but arises spontaneously under the influence of circumstances. The firstflash of insight occurs thus and then the Paccekabodhisatta can systematically contemplate it.This rather sudden insight, as described in the relevant texts, occurs either throughunderstanding the doctrine of impermanence, suffering and non-self, or through understandingthe origination by dependence (paṭiccasamuppāda). In some cases it arises through insight intothe true nature of the round of existence, i.e., saṃsāra, and the end of the round, i.e., Nibbāna.
The Paccekabuddha: A Buddhist Ascetic
According to Early Buddhism,
A 'when there are no Buddhas, pratyekabuddhas arise in the world who are compassionate to the unfortunate and imperilled, inhabit remote places and whose worthiness of offerings is unique in the world.' (Divy 88)

C 'these majestic ones teach dhamma by means of the body not by means of words.'

G 'he made a vow: "May I also obtain these modes and qualities (i.e. of the arhat); may obtain access to and win the favour of a more distinguished teacher than this one (the pratyekabuddha) '


From Martin G. Wiltshire, Ascetic Figures before and in Early Buddhism, Appendix II
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Queequeg »

Norwegian wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:46 pm Just in case you don't know its actual title (it's affectionately referred to as the big red / the big red book by Vajrayana practitioners) it's called "The Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism: Its Fundamentals and History". It focuses on the history and the path of the Nyingma school. And since the Nyingma school operates with the nine yana presentation, there are sections of the book which are nice for a very condensed presentation of Hinayana, and Mahayana, as well as of course Outer Tantra and Inner Tantra. Dudjom Rinpoche uses sutras, shastras, tantras, and their commentaries as sources wherever relevant, in order to comment on something.
Looked up Dudjom Rinpoche on Amazon and a hefty red book was the first hit. Looked through the table of contents and it looks like something I will enjoy. Thank you.

I'm still not clear on this point, though.

Does a pratyekabuddha conceive of themselves as "pratyekabuddha"?

Being aware of the Buddhist path through past life recollection, they would know that they are pratyekabuddha and implicitly that their awakening is incomplete. Are we to conclude that they simply do not care? I think this is more or less the critique of sravaka as well - that they see and pursue the path of their own release but are not particularly concerned with others. Pratyekabuddha along with sravaka are called burnt seeds in the Mahayana.
I am not sure if they conceive of themselves as "pratyekabuddha", but, in the past - at the feet of a supreme nirmanakaya - for example Buddha Shakyamuni, they have made very intense prayers and aspirations to be reborn in a time where the dispensation of a supreme nirmanakaya simply does not exist...
That explanation makes sense.
What I quoted in the above post is what Dudjom Rinpoche mentions about the Pratyekabuddha. It might be an idea to check various root texts (in particular five paths literature, etc.), such as various sutras, the Abhisamayalamkara, along with commentaries, more more information and details.
:twothumbsup:
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Queequeg »

Caoimhghín wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:56 pm In the Mahasamghika Ekottaragama there is a sutra about the Pratyekabuddhas that explains that many of them once lived on the vulture peak ages ago in a community there (complicating the idea of them as strictly solitary realizers) and would allegedly cremate themselves in the air/space/sky/emptiness above the mountaintop to attain the deathless. It's an odd little story.
是時,諸辟支佛即於空中燒身取般涅槃。
At that time, all the Pratyekabuddhas would, admist the sky, burn their bodies to reach parinibbāna.
(EĀ 38.7 T125.723b06)
I wonder if this Pali sutta is the corresponding version in the Nikaya: Isigili Sutta https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .piya.html
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Queequeg »

haha wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:21 pm Maha Prajnaparamita Sastra
Fo Guang Shan is publishing a translation of this text - Chinese original on the left hand pages and English on the right. They are free upon request. You only need to pay for shipping. It might be nice to make a donation as well to support their publication program. Right now they have published 15 volumes and I understand the rest are on their way.
I saw a reference to this while researching yesterday. Thank you for this link.

:twothumbsup:
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
haha
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:30 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by haha »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:03 pm
haha wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:21 pm Maha Prajnaparamita Sastra
Fo Guang Shan is publishing a translation of this text - Chinese original on the left hand pages and English on the right. They are free upon request. You only need to pay for shipping. It might be nice to make a donation as well to support their publication program. Right now they have published 15 volumes and I understand the rest are on their way.
Ok, thank you for this information.
User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 3419
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Caoimhghín »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:50 pmI wonder if this Pali sutta is the corresponding version in the Nikaya: Isigili Sutta https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .piya.html
It is. Mount Isigili = Mount Ṛṣigiri. You might have encountered this already, but here is a recent paper comparing the two recensions:

https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... uddhas.pdf
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?

Post by Queequeg »

Caoimhghín wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:19 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:50 pmI wonder if this Pali sutta is the corresponding version in the Nikaya: Isigili Sutta https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .piya.html
It is. Mount Isigili = Mount Ṛṣigiri. You might have encountered this already, but here is a recent paper comparing the two recensions:

https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... uddhas.pdf
Did not see this. Thank you. :twothumbsup:
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Post Reply

Return to “Academic Discussion”