what the buddha didn't teach

A forum for those wishing to discuss Buddhist history and teachings in the Western academic manner, referencing appropriate sources.
Odin
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:27 am

what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Odin »

Is there a good book or article that lists all the things added to Buddhism that wasn't originally taught by the first buddha?
I know there is a book on what he taught( "what the buddha taught"). Does that book tell specifically all the things that were later added by chance?

Maybe I really want just a list of ideas he didn't teach. For example like I've heard that he didn't teach chakras... etc.
Perhaps a short article on the internet that summarizes a list of what he didn't teach that was later added by other buddhas.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17089
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Odin wrote:Is there a good book or article that lists all the things added to Buddhism that wasn't originally taught by the first buddha?
I know there is a book on what he taught( "what the buddha taught"). Does that book tell specifically all the things that were later added by chance?

Maybe I really want just a list of ideas he didn't teach. For example like I've heard that he didn't teach chakras... etc.
Perhaps a short article on the internet that summarizes a list of what he didn't teach that was later added by other buddhas.
There are different schools of thought, but even from a purely historical viewpoint, no one actually knows the limits of what Shakyamuni taught.


This is not a point of view you will find heavily represented on this particular site at any rate, being a site for Mahayana folk.

You might want to check the sister site http://www.dhammawheel.com and ask questions there, as well as peruse http://www.accesstoinsight.com and explore the Pali Suttas yourself.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Sādhaka »

Has anyone been able to find out at what times the webcast will be going live?
User avatar
Wayfarer
Former staff member
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: AU

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Wayfarer »

Odin wrote: Perhaps a short article on the internet that summarizes a list of what he didn't teach that was later added by other buddhas.
There haven't been 'other Buddha's' since Siddhartha Gautama. You might read that some lineage-holders are regarded as 'living Buddhas', but a formally-designated Buddha hasn't lived since Gautama. (There is the prophesied Buddha to come, namely, Maitreya, subject of considerable legend.)

If you're asking how Buddhism developed subsequent to the Buddha's parinirvana, some good titles on that question are Edward Conze, Buddhism: It's Essence and Development and Rupert Gethin: The Foundations of Buddhism.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
Rakz
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:04 am

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Rakz »

Odin wrote:Is there a good book or article that lists all the things added to Buddhism that wasn't originally taught by the first buddha?
I know there is a book on what he taught( "what the buddha taught"). Does that book tell specifically all the things that were later added by chance?

Maybe I really want just a list of ideas he didn't teach. For example like I've heard that he didn't teach chakras... etc.
Perhaps a short article on the internet that summarizes a list of what he didn't teach that was later added by other buddhas.
Check out the first four nikayas of the sutta pitaka. They contain the actual words of Shakyamuni.
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Grigoris »

Odin wrote:Is there a good book or article that lists all the things added to Buddhism that wasn't originally taught by the first buddha?
You mean by Buddha Taṇhaṃkara? ;)
Maybe I really want just a list of ideas he didn't teach. For example like I've heard that he didn't teach chakras... etc.
He taught Tantra so why would he not have taught chakras? Who told you he did not teach chakras?

All Sutra are the actual words of the Buddha.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
User avatar
Wayfarer
Former staff member
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: AU

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Wayfarer »

Do you find teachings about chakra anywhere apart from tantra or Buddhist yoga?
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
User avatar
PuerAzaelis
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by PuerAzaelis »

Rakz wrote:Check out the first four nikayas of the sutta pitaka. They contain the actual words of Shakyamuni.
That's optimistic.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Grigoris »

Wayfarer wrote:Do you find teachings about chakra anywhere apart from tantra or Buddhist yoga?
Do you find teachings about karma anywhere apart from Buddhism?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Helena, MT
Contact:

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Grigoris wrote:All Sutra are the actual words of the Buddha.
And tantra! :twothumbsup:
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Grigoris »

tomamundsen wrote:
Grigoris wrote:All Sutra are the actual words of the Buddha.
And tantra! :twothumbsup:
Yeah, that was in my previous sentence. ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Sādhaka »

Sādhaka wrote:Has anyone been able to find out at what times the webcast will be going live?
:oops:

Wrong thread.
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by dzogchungpa »

Odin wrote:Is there a good book or article that lists all the things added to Buddhism that wasn't originally taught by the first buddha?.
According to the Diamond Sutra the Buddha didn't teach anything at all so I guess everything else was a later addition.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Helena, MT
Contact:

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Grigoris wrote:
tomamundsen wrote:
Grigoris wrote:All Sutra are the actual words of the Buddha.
And tantra! :twothumbsup:
Yeah, that was in my previous sentence. ;)
:oops:
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Grigoris »

dzogchungpa wrote:According to the Diamond Sutra the Buddha didn't teach anything at all so I guess everything else was a later addition.
:rolling:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
User avatar
Wayfarer
Former staff member
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: AU

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Wayfarer »

Grigoris wrote:
Wayfarer wrote:Do you find teachings about chakra anywhere apart from tantra or Buddhist yoga?
Do you find teachings about karma anywhere apart from Buddhism?
Of course - the idea of karma pre-existed the Buddha, but he adapted it from the Brahmins so as to free it from the reliance on ritualised sacrifices and so on. Even the Bible says 'as you sow, so shall you reap.'

My understanding is that tantric and yogic practices are generic to Indian culture and were adapted and modified by Buddhism, so that Buddhist tantra and Buddhist yoga developed. Although, that said, I think the teaching of 'stages of dhyana' were certainly taught by the Buddha. But the esoteric aspects of chakra, and the like, I would not be so sure of.
Last edited by Wayfarer on Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Malcolm »

Grigoris wrote:
Wayfarer wrote:Do you find teachings about chakra anywhere apart from tantra or Buddhist yoga?
Do you find teachings about karma anywhere apart from Buddhism?

HInduism, Jainism.
MiphamFan
Posts: 1096
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:46 am

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by MiphamFan »

Wasn't the pre-Buddha idea of karma rather different?

Buddha was the first to describe karma in terms of intention rather than just action (in particular ritual action).
mikenz66
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:10 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by mikenz66 »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: There are different schools of thought, but even from a purely historical viewpoint, no one actually knows the limits of what Shakyamuni taught.


This is not a point of view you will find heavily represented on this particular site at any rate, being a site for Mahayana folk.

You might want to check the sister site http://www.dhammawheel.com and ask questions there, as well as peruse http://www.accesstoinsight.com and explore the Pali Suttas yourself.
If historical analysis of the Pali Suttas and the various Agamas preserved in Chinese, Sanskrit, etc are of interest, then also check out:
https://suttacentral.net/
And the associated discussion:
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/

HIstorical analysis is, of course, only one way of approaching Dharma...

:anjali:
Mike
Last edited by mikenz66 on Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Wayfarer
Former staff member
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: AU

Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Wayfarer »

MiphamFan wrote:Wasn't the pre-Buddha idea of karma rather different?

Buddha was the first to describe karma in terms of intention rather than just action (in particular ritual action).
That's how I understand it too. But he was adapting an existing idea and giving it a unique meaning, rather than inventing it de novo. The Buddha did that a lot - another example was his re-definition of 'brahmin' in terms of character rather than hereditary title. A good book on that is What the Buddha Thought, Richard Gombrich.
Last edited by Wayfarer on Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
Locked

Return to “Academic Discussion”